Mine Failure

[Paul M (OP)]

I don't mean I failed...though that happens but that my mines failed to fire!

Here is the design of my Mark II mine:

Code: [Select]

NCN Mark II Mine
Missile Size: 4.988 MSP  (0.2494 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s    Engine Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.0m km
Active Sensor Strength: 1.3692   Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Resolution: 60    Maximum Range vs 3000 ton object (or larger): 1,160,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 3.9069
Second Stage: Venom Assault Stage (Batch 2) x1
Second Stage Separation Range: 150,000 km
Overall Endurance: 1 minutes   Overall Range: 0.7m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%
Materials Required:    0.5x Tritanium   0.8748x Boronide   1.4592x Uridium   1.0729x Gallicite   Fuel x10

Is there any reason this should not fire on a target at <50k km?  I am baffled...

[xenoscepter]

The Separation Range in your example shows 150,000 km, so as given the answer is "No."

However, that is the default range of it. When you bring up an old missile in the Missile Design window in Aurora, it automagically sets your Separation Range to 150,000 km. If your Separation Range is ACTUALLY less than that and less than 50,000 km that that's your problem right there. If it isn't than I have no idea, sans the Res 60 Active Sensors not seeing an enemy that is right on top of it because it actually weights like... what 125 Tons? Is that even small enough to slip by? I have no idea.

[Paul M (OP)]

Hmmm....well damn no the target was 9000 tonnes so the sensor would have seen it.   I can even see the mine search sensor on the map so it is there.  The target also spent 3x5s turns in the middle of the bloody field and no attack.

Well damn....the separation range....I wonder if I messed that up somehow...this is the second time I've seen my mines not work (the Mark I also) making me wonder if I am doing something wrong in the design or whatever.

Thanks, I'm still baffled but at least there is hope I can figure it out for the mark III.

[xenoscepter]

So I did some (very) light reading on the matter here: http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Missiles#Mines <---- The Wiki Entry on Missiles, Mines are near the bottom.

The example given uses Thermal Passives on the main stage, while the sub-munitions have an active sensor. Maybe try that and see if it works? A blank new game, Spacemaster and some Fast OOB could help you test it if you're in a hurry.

[Father Tim]

The example given uses Thermal Passives on the main stage. . .

Good point.  Thinking about it, I can't recall any AARs that specifically use active sensors on the mines (and I know I've never done so -- only passives) so that may be where the problem originates.

[Paul M (OP)]

I'll give a try with the mark III.  I was thinking maybe I got too cute with the separation range to keep the whole field from targeting one ship but even so the target was super close to several clusters of mines and spent 3x5s turns in the field.

I had it in my head the main stage had to be active...well the venom assault stage (batch 3) will get deleted (it is still in the research queue so no loss) and re-done with active sensors...I'm fairly sure it has passives on it but I'll change that.

Thanks Guys.  I'm still confused why active sensors won't work...but that is one for Steve to answer.

[xenoscepter]

So, did you ever fix 'em? 

[Zhatelier]

Actives on a mine do work (and quite well, I might add), but a mistake I made several times before realizing what was wrong is I didn't use the "Launch missiles at" order in the fleet menu.  Without that the sensors won't launch the second stage even with enemies in the sensor and separation range, as far as I can tell.

[Paul M (OP)]

I am still working on the AAR of OP Quarrel...

I am developing the Venom Assault Stage (Batch 4) and after that (8 days from now in-game time) was going to do the Mark III mine with passive sensors but ....now I read that actives will work and now I'm a lot torn.  Maybe though I can fit both on the Mark III and see how that works.

Zhatelier what do you mean by "I didn't use the 'Launch missiles at' order in the fleet menu."  The mines aren't showing up as anything but "missiles in flight" in the combat overview tab.  They certainly aren't in the fleet orders tab.  I deployed them from my minelayers using:  "Waypoint x" then "Move to" followed by"Launch Missiles at" commands.  That resulted in "Move to Waypoint x" and "Launch missiles at Waypoint x."  I can't see any other way to deploy them.

I've also been distracted by HOI IV as I'm trying to figure out if the AI is at a point the game is playable...as it was blind, and stupid up till now and my patience is at an end...as addicted to the game as I am either they fix it so it doesn't bloody well forget about garrisoning things that absolutely need to be garrisoned and to take care of supply lines or well no way it is worth playing as the AI just does attritional warfare and more by luck then anything else accomplishes anything.  Part of it in my feeling is the lack of a proper OOB and 24 units per general...this leads to the near constant unit shuffle...but anyway...it has been distracting me from my AAR.

[Zhatelier]

Zhatelier what do you mean by "I didn't use the 'Launch missiles at' order in the fleet menu. "  The mines aren't showing up as anything but "missiles in flight" in the combat overview tab.   They certainly aren't in the fleet orders tab.   I deployed them from my minelayers using:  "Waypoint x" then "Move to" followed by"Launch Missiles at" commands.   That resulted in "Move to Waypoint x" and "Launch missiles at Waypoint x. "  I can't see any other way to deploy them.

The way you described is the correct one, I would then perhaps increase the separation range to a bit higher and if need be, spread the mines out a bit further manually.  But you could easily go for around 400k km separation range.  Keep in mind that the second stage won't launch until the enemy is inside that range, if the enemy flies through it, but ends the tick outside it, the stage won't launch.  Ships with jump shock are naturally the easiest targets for mines.

[Paul M (OP)]

Unfortunately, the enemy ship was like 18k km from a mine and it still didn't launch.  I'm baffled beyond baffled as to why.   But this is the second time my mines never fired.

I'll try passives for the mark III mine and see if that helps.  The only other possibility is that I got too cute about the separation range....but even so I am sure I set it to over 50k Km.

[Bremen]

I've used actives on a mine and they worked just fine. I'm afraid I have no idea why you're having trouble.

[Paul M (OP)]

I am left to wonder if this may be either something to do with 6.10 or me getting too cute with the separation distance.   As the Mark III will come soon I'll post up the stats for it here and people can maybe find the error.   It's a tad frustrating I have to admit.

[xenoscepter]

Have you tried 7.1?

[Paul M (OP)]

It ain't compatible with my saved game and I've got waaaaay too much time invested.  So I live with the older version until C# is a bit more developed.