Author Topic: Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem  (Read 2410 times)

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Offline shireknight (OP)

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Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem
« on: July 21, 2011, 10:54:36 PM »
Ok I reckon I've clocked up about 20 hours on this game over the last three nights, it's tough as nails to learn but thanks to the tutorials and the very helpful members of this forum I'm slowly learning the ropes and really enjoying the game however one thing is causing me great annoyance - the turn times, frankly they simply don't work.

According to the game pop-up tips and a post I read somewhere on this forum if you input a number of turns into the Min Inc box (say 6), tick the Auto Turns box and then press 30 days the game should spin on six months regardless of what happens in the game world however that's not what happens. Sometimes that will happen but what normally seems to happen is that the game will just spin on exactly how it wants to and sometimes it will literally enter into a cycle of dozens of 5 second intervals and seriously you can't play a game like this in 5 second bursts it just isn't feasible.

I read somewhere that this is caused by AI factions fighting each other but why? the pop-up tip says that NOTHING can stop the turns regardless of the interrupts so why do non-human factions affect it?, if this can't be worked around then can you not just simply put an option into the events screen that allows you to switch off notifications of non-human faction actions? you seem to be able to enable and disable pretty much every human notification but there isn't one for non-human actions and that really slows the game down to a crawl  :'(

I wanted to experiment with terraforming so Ignored everything except what my terraforming plants were doing to the Martian atmosphere and just set the game on multiple 30 day turns but hours and hours of real life time later I'm still only some 6 years into the game from where I was when I started tonight's session because it's constantly throwing 5 second turns in with the mix of 30 days ones sigh.

Apart from this one niggle I can't find a single other thing about the game I don't like and it's simply amazing how much detail and creative options the designer has managed to fit into the game ;)
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2011, 11:48:22 PM »
If you are looking to experiment with stuff like that, start a game with no NPRs, turn Invaders and Precursors off.

Offline Jacob/Lee

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Re: Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2011, 02:57:53 AM »
I believe it was said somewhere that if the game didn't go in 5 sec increments when battles started it would seriously frakk with combat, someone even made a complaint in a huge thread that said a low tech precursor managed to get in the (ridiculously low range, compared to his ships) firing range and start firing because the game passed a longer time increment than what should've happened, which those precursors would stand no chance in hell of even getting near their firing range if he had the chance to open fire with his missiles.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2011, 07:10:50 AM »
An interrupt event causes the increment to end on the current sub-pulse and automated turns to end. What the minimum increments checkbox does is to prevent automated turns from switching off until the specified number of increments have taken place. It doesn't prevent the interrupt event in the first place.

For example, assume you are launching missiles at an alien ship every 30 seconds. The game checks early in an increment to see if anyone is planning to fire anything and overrides the increment length if that is the case. As firing a weapon is an interrupt event, automated turns will end when you fire. This means you will have to press the time button after every missile launch. Using the min inc field, you could specify 20 increments and your ship will keep firing without stopping the game.

If an alien ship is launching missiles at you every thirty seconds, the game will do exactly the same calculation and make the max increment length 30 seconds. If you don't know about this alien ship, you will see the increments being shortened and not know why. However, as alien weapon fire is not an interrupt event (only damage caused to a player ship by that fire), automated turns would work normally and you wouldn't need to even use the min inc button. If you did have min inc switched on at this point though, the game wouldn't stop if that alien fire damaged your ship because you told it to ignore interrupts.

So to summarise, min increments simply prevents automated turns from switching off. It doesn't prevent those events that would cause automated turns to switch off. It doesn't prevent the game from ending the current increment before all sub-pulses have taken place and it doesn't prevent the game from deciding to change the length of the increment before it starts (because of weapon fire, or fleet interceptions, or an estimate that you are about to enter alien sensor range (or vice versa)).

Here is the original release note for that min inc feature.

"Sometimes, the interrupts can be a pain if they are stopping the game when you know you are just going to press the increment button again. This situation usually occurs in a battle when you are launching large numbers of missiles or its a close range energy engagement where you don't need to change targets very often. Therefore there is now a new text field above the Auto Turns checkbox called Min Inc (for 'minimum number of increments'). If you are using automated turns and enter a number in this checkbox, the game will run for that number of increments before stopping for any interrupt events. In other words, you are overriding all interrupts for a specified period. The Shift-F8 combo will still work to stop automated turns but, apart from that, no matter what happens the game will keep running increments until it reaches the minimum number of increments.

WARNING! Using this option will take away your ability to react instantly to potentially important events so use with great caution. This is an experiment to see how useful this functionality will be so I will appreciate feedback once v5.40 is out."

I have changed the popup text a little to make this clearer for v5.50 as the existing text could be interpreted to mean that interrupt events are prevented rather than ignored.

Steve
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 07:14:52 AM by Steve Walmsley »
 

Offline shireknight (OP)

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Re: Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2011, 07:07:15 PM »
Ah I see so the way the system works at the moment is like a safety net, it won't stop the turns going through if you don't want it too but it will shorten those turns as much as possible so even if you have the turns set to automatic the damage done to your empire will be kept to an absolute minimum to give you a chance to see what's happening and intervene.

I get this now however why isn't it set so that the only times it effects the player is when the player is directly involved or is it saying there are alien ships or an alien colony in one of my systems and I don't realise it and this is what's triggering the 5 second turns?
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2011, 03:18:37 AM »
Ah I see so the way the system works at the moment is like a safety net, it won't stop the turns going through if you don't want it too but it will shorten those turns as much as possible so even if you have the turns set to automatic the damage done to your empire will be kept to an absolute minimum to give you a chance to see what's happening and intervene.

I get this now however why isn't it set so that the only times it effects the player is when the player is directly involved or is it saying there are alien ships or an alien colony in one of my systems and I don't realise it and this is what's triggering the 5 second turns?

Time increments are shortened even when two alien races are fighting. For example, if one alien ship is firing missiles at another, the time increments will have to be the length of the firing cycle, otherwise the ship might only fire one salvo of missiles every 24 hours, or 30 days. Equally, if alien one ship is defending against another, it's point defence has to be able to fire quickly or it will be destroyed.

Steve
 

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2011, 06:03:23 AM »
You have to take the sugar with the salt :)

The sugar:
Finally a game where the AI plays by the same rules as you do

The salt:
The AI plays by the same rules as you do.
If you want the game to pause enough for you to launch a salvo every 30 seconds, the game also has to pause for the AI to launch a salvo every 30 seconds.
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
 

Offline shireknight (OP)

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Re: Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2011, 03:24:33 PM »
You have to take the sugar with the salt :)

The sugar:
Finally a game where the AI plays by the same rules as you do

The salt:
The AI plays by the same rules as you do.
If you want the game to pause enough for you to launch a salvo every 30 seconds, the game also has to pause for the AI to launch a salvo every 30 seconds.

Nicely put -point well made  ;D
 

Offline Jacob/Lee

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Re: Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2011, 03:45:29 PM »
You have to take the sugar with the salt :)

The sugar:
Finally a game where the AI plays by the same rules as you do

The salt:
The AI plays by the same rules as you do.
If you want the game to pause enough for you to launch a salvo every 30 seconds, the game also has to pause for the AI to launch a salvo every 30 seconds.
Very well put, indeed. Good thing the AI doesn't mysteriously get free resources at random and acts like a moron.
 

Offline Libelnon

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Re: Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 08:47:55 AM »
You have to take the sugar with the salt :)

The sugar:
Finally a game where the AI plays by pretty much the same rules as you do

The salt:
The AI plays by pretty much the same rules as you do.
If you want the game to pause enough for you to launch a salvo every 30 seconds, the game also has to pause for the AI to launch a salvo every 30 seconds.

Corrected =D the AI ALMOST plays by the same rules. They don't have fuel restraints, if I remember correctly, because they can't figure out how it works.
 

Offline voknaar

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Re: Excellent game but just one MAJOR problem
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 06:32:19 PM »
AI would have to be the most complicated part of good game design. Aurora is category above most commercial games as far as complication, learning curve, options and depth are concerned. This means an AI creator has to account for all of that and set rules and conditions for every conceivable path just to simulate intelligent use of available resources and the basic strategy within the game mechanics.