Problems with targeting

[smoelf (OP)]

In a recent fight I had a problem with targeting the enemy ship, and I was wondering if I was doing something wrong.  In the past couple of fights I have had no problems targeting, and was able to fire my missiles from about 100m km away.  For this fight I had brought fighters for the first time (still rather new to the game), but even when they were right on top of the enemy ship, it didn't show up as a valid target in the combat overview.  As for my missile boats, I couldn't target it at first, but after I had closed the distance to about 40m km, I was able to shoot normally.  This would indicate some kind of ECM to reduce targeting distance, but I don't think it will explain my fighters' targeting problem.   I'll list the ships below, in case I might have made a mistake building them.

Fleet command and sensor ship

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Absalon II class Destroyer Leader    16 200 tons     475 Crew     3775.4 BP      TCS 324  TH 3200  EM 150
9876 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 6-57     Shields 5-200     Sensors 30/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 0
Maint Life 1.14 Years     MSP 1874    AFR 349%    IFR 4.9%    1YR 1467    5YR 22001    Max Repair 800 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 1   
Flag Bridge   

J16200(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 16200 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
1600 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (2)    Power 1600    Fuel Use 169.71%    Signature 1600    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 1 750 000 Litres    Range 11.5 billion km   (13 days at full power)
Alpha R200/144 Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  30 Litres per hour  (720 per day)

Active Search Sensor MR498-R200 (1)     GPS 88200     Range 498.9m km    Resolution 200
Active Search Sensor MR201-R100 (1)     GPS 25200     Range 201.6m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR10-R1 (1)     GPS 126     Range 10.1m km    MCR 1.1m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH5-30 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-8 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

ECM 10

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Missile boat

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Tyr class Missile Frigate    7 950 tons     241 Crew     1537.6 BP      TCS 159  TH 1600  EM 0
10062 km/s     Armour 5-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 30
Maint Life 1.28 Years     MSP 1242    AFR 252%    IFR 3.5%    1YR 800    5YR 11997    Max Repair 800 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 210   

1600 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (1)    Power 1600    Fuel Use 169.71%    Signature 1600    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 750 000 Litres    Range 10.0 billion km   (11 days at full power)

Size 6 Missile Launcher (5)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 90
Missile Fire Control FC201-R100 (1)     Range 201.6m km    Resolution 100
S6 ASM (35)  Speed: 25 600 km/s   End: 61.6m    Range: 94.6m km   WH: 9    Size: 6    TH: 145/87/43

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

HPM Fighter

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Falk class Fighter    492 tons     4 Crew     146 BP      TCS 9.84  TH 160  EM 0
16260 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 98%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 42    5YR 637    Max Repair 80 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 0   

160 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (1)    Power 160    Fuel Use 322.44%    Signature 160    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 Litres    Range 0.6 billion km   (9 hours at full power)

R4.5/C3 High Power Microwave (1)    Range 45 000km     TS: 16260 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 4.5    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S00.5 32-4000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 64 000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes


[83athom]

Question, what is the estimated size of the enemy craft you can't target? Also, there is a "max weapons range (ships)"  checkbox in the Display 2 tab, click that and zoom way in to your fighters and the enemy.

[smoelf (OP)]

It was almost 3000 tons.

[baconholic]

It was almost 3000 tons.

There's the problem. You have a R100 sensor, which can detect 5000 tons and above without losing any range. Since the target is 3000 tons, that 200m km max detection range will drop down to somewhere around 40m km.

As for the fighter problem, it's usually comes down to either not having an active sensor lock or your fleet movement initiative is not high enough.

The first scenario is rather unlikely since most AI ships around the 3000 ton range are survey ships with low thermal and EM radiations, so it's unlikely that you'll pick it up with a passive sensor and not an active one.

The second scenario is the more likely culprit. If you don't have a high enough movement speed, you'll end up chasing the enemy's last 5-sec increment location. Given the speed of your fighters and that of the enemy craft, you could be looking easily at a range that's further away than you can shoot.

[smoelf (OP)]

Ah, I see.  I assumed that since I was able to see the target on the map and that it was within the general range of my active sensors, that I should be able to target it.  I hadn't considered how the maximum distance for potential "lock" changes with the tonnage. 

It actually makes a lot of sense in this context.  The enemy ship was close to a colony of mine with DST's in a small system, and was picked up by their passive sensor, so I could "see" the ship on the map, but the reduced size affected my active sensors.  I should also mention that the point at which my fighters attempted their attack, the main fleet was about 110m km away (which would have been fine with a 5000 tons ship), but I recovered the fighters before proceeding to 40m km, when the missiles started working.  It's a shame I didn't test the fighters at that point.

Thanks for the help!

[MarcAFK]

Actually I believe if you lower the task group's initiative it will move after the enemy ship, effectively allowing it to catch up. or at least that's what I've been led to believe. Try it next time you're in that situation.

[Iranon]

I believe it's the opposite, high initiative means you move last (which is usually advantageous, as firing takes place after movement and the one to move last gets an advantage at choosing the range).

Regarding the contacts... it pays to have a closer look. If you can see the mass of the contact, you have an active sensor lock. If you just get an EM/Thermal reading, you don't.

[Garfunkel]

Yes, lowest initiative goes first, highest initiative goes last and you always want to move last as Iranon said.