Author Topic: An Aurora Discussion for the new year  (Read 1679 times)

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Offline Kurt (OP)

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An Aurora Discussion for the new year
« on: January 02, 2008, 02:40:37 PM »
A discussion on various Aurora topics:

How many people use armor on their ships, rather than, or in addition, to, shields?  If so, at what tech level do you use armor, and how much do you use?

How many people use internal armor of any sort?  Does anyone use armored engines or power plants?  

Would you use other types of armored internal systems, like armored quarters, armored bridges, armored weapons mounts (aside from turrets), armored magazines, or armored fire control systems?

I do tend to use armored ships, depending on the situation, however, I have never once, to date, used armored engines as I am always trying to get the best speed possible out of my ships, and armoring the engines effectively lowers their efficiency.  I have played around with the various types of internal armor currently offered, but I haven?t had a lot of combat experience with those designs so I can?t testify to their effectiveness.  As noted above, I don?t like the armored engines because of the efficiency cost, but I do like the idea of armored reactors, and will quite often design such for my warships.  

What about gunboats?  What role do you tend to use them in?  Missile boats and fast attack craft (with various types of weapons) are the obvious roles, but are there others?  In the Quad-System campaign I was using gunboats armed with a fast-firing 15 cm plasma carronade as my primary planetary defense unit.  I can't say how well they worked because the first battle where they were being used was also the battle where Aurora crapped out.  Oh well.

Oh, which reminds me!  Steve, we currently have a technology research branch for decreasing the size of a missile launcher while simultaneously increasing the reload time.  How about something similar for beam weapons?  Decreasing the size, while increasing the reload time would seem to make sense, and would be an interesting option on small attack craft, or on larger ships (for defense against small attackers).

Finally, a dual question.  First off, what set up do you tend to use when starting a campaign (pop/tech, and so on)?  Secondly, what kind of problems do you find yourself dealing with in the campaigns that you run?  Are they similar from campaign to campaign?

I tend to start most campaigns with low tech and a small to medium population, as I find it interesting to build a civilization from the start.  I have noticed that in a lot of my campaigns, things go the same way, at least at the start, and I?ve been wondering if that is because of how Aurora is, or how I play.  At the start I tend to focus on finding and exploiting new resource deposits, particularly duranium and sorium as these are the most important and useful resources.  Most of the initial phase of the game is focused on building up my ability to exploit off-planet sources of these two resources, so that my industrial and military might can continue to expand.  

Once I have secured my supply of duranium, I?ve noticed that I tend to run into at least two problems ? first I usually have chronic money shortages, and second, although my supply problems relating to duranium and sorium have been solved, I now have shortages in at least one other mineral.  By this time I?ve usually explored the systems around my home system, and might have begun exploitation to alleviate my original duranium problem.  

While the details may vary from campaign to campaign, I?ve found a lot of consistency to what I call ?Phase I? problems, the shortage of duranium and sorium.  This almost always tends to be the first thing I focus on in a new campaign, and the biggest thing limiting my economy, at least at the start.  

In my campaign downtime, while I?m waiting for Steve to kick out his house guests and get back to the really important things in life, like putting out 2.5, I?ve been thinking about the general experience of playing an Aurora campaign, instead of the smaller details, as you can see <G>.

Kurt
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Kurt »
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: An Aurora Discussion for the new year
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2008, 02:57:43 PM »
Quote from: "Kurt"
A discussion on various Aurora topics:

How many people use armor on their ships, rather than, or in addition, to, shields?  If so, at what tech level do you use armor, and how much do you use?
I tend to leave default armor (1 for ships, 3 for PDCs), unless I am building a dedicated planetary assault ship.
Quote from: "Kurt"
How many people use internal armor of any sort?  Does anyone use armored engines or power plants?  
Very rarely anymore. Initially, I used armored bunkers on warships, and armored plants and the like, but I can't recall the last time I did.
Quote from: "Kurt"
Would you use other types of armored internal systems, like armored quarters, armored bridges, armored weapons mounts (aside from turrets), armored magazines, or armored fire control systems?

I do tend to use armored ships, depending on the situation, however, I have never once, to date, used armored engines as I am always trying to get the best speed possible out of my ships, and armoring the engines effectively lowers their efficiency.  I have played around with the various types of internal armor currently offered, but I haven?t had a lot of combat experience with those designs so I can?t testify to their effectiveness.  As noted above, I don?t like the armored engines because of the efficiency cost, but I do like the idea of armored reactors, and will quite often design such for my warships.  

What about gunboats?  What role do you tend to use them in?  Missile boats and fast attack craft (with various types of weapons) are the obvious roles, but are there others?  In the Quad-System campaign I was using gunboats armed with a fast-firing 15 cm plasma carronade as my primary planetary defense unit.  I can't say how well they worked because the first battle where they were being used was also the battle where Aurora crapped out.  Oh well.
Like you, gunboats were in a game that crapped on the database. The role I put them in initially was system defense as I couldn't build a feasible mothership at the time.
Quote from: "Kurt"
Oh, which reminds me!  Steve, we currently have a technology research branch for decreasing the size of a missile launcher while simultaneously increasing the reload time.  How about something similar for beam weapons?  Decreasing the size, while increasing the reload time would seem to make sense, and would be an interesting option on small attack craft, or on larger ships (for defense against small attackers).
I like that.
Quote from: "Kurt"
Finally, a dual question.  First off, what set up do you tend to use when starting a campaign (pop/tech, and so on)?  Secondly, what kind of problems do you find yourself dealing with in the campaigns that you run?  Are they similar from campaign to campaign?
My games tend to start with 1000-1500 pop, 150-180k tech points.

As for issues, mineral shortages. And usually a decay in weapon systems. I.E. tech has advanced past what is being fielded, and limited upgrades have been made due to lack of resources/time/inclination. Why upgrade if there's no one to fight? ;)

Quote from: "Kurt"
I tend to start most campaigns with low tech and a small to medium population, as I find it interesting to build a civilization from the start.  I have noticed that in a lot of my campaigns, things go the same way, at least at the start, and I?ve been wondering if that is because of how Aurora is, or how I play.  At the start I tend to focus on finding and exploiting new resource deposits, particularly duranium and sorium as these are the most important and useful resources.  Most of the initial phase of the game is focused on building up my ability to exploit off-planet sources of these two resources, so that my industrial and military might can continue to expand.  

Once I have secured my supply of duranium, I?ve noticed that I tend to run into at least two problems ? first I usually have chronic money shortages, and second, although my supply problems relating to duranium and sorium have been solved, I now have shortages in at least one other mineral.  By this time I?ve usually explored the systems around my home system, and might have begun exploitation to alleviate my original duranium problem.  

While the details may vary from campaign to campaign, I?ve found a lot of consistency to what I call ?Phase I? problems, the shortage of duranium and sorium.  This almost always tends to be the first thing I focus on in a new campaign, and the biggest thing limiting my economy, at least at the start.  

In my campaign downtime, while I?m waiting for Steve to kick out his house guests and get back to the really important things in life, like putting out 2.5, I?ve been thinking about the general experience of playing an Aurora campaign, instead of the smaller details, as you can see <G>.

Kurt
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Erik Luken »
 

Offline Brian Neumann

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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2008, 04:40:03 PM »
Kurt Wrote:
Quote
How many people use armor on their ships, rather than, or in addition, to, shields? If so, at what tech level do you use armor, and how much do you use

I do tend to armor up bigger ships once I hit the 4th level of armor.  Just a couple of points initially.  At the same time the ships would have better shield efficiency's available but they don't tend to get any stronger total shield strength.  The tradeoff is hard to quantify, but in the last couple of battles I was running it made a huge difference.  I had two seperate, large fleets engage from maximum ranges on in.  The one with the heavier shields and 1 point of armor was losing ships from the start.  The one that had 3 points of armor and about 2/3 the shields didn't lose anyone untill the range closed by about 60,000 km.  It ended up making a huge difference.  The fleets were almost identical in tech and cost, yet almost half of the armor heavy fleet survived, and only a couple of the other fleets ships managed to escape.  The general tech level was at around the 5th level of reasearch across the board.  Both fleets were balanced with missle and beam weapons, no fighters however.

As far as armored systems go, about the only one I use consistantly is the fuel bunker, that extra couple of points can make a big difference against the marginal shots that are just barely getting through the armor at longer range, or against smaller missle warheads.  I ocasionaly use armored power plants, mostly on heavy assult ships.  I almost never find the aromored engines to be worth it unless it is also a dedicated defense ship/almost a base design.

Kurt Wrote:
Quote
What about gunboats? What role do you tend to use them in? Missile boats and fast attack craft (with various types of weapons) are the obvious roles, but are there others? In the Quad-System campaign I was using gunboats armed with a fast-firing 15 cm plasma carronade as my primary planetary defense unit. I can't say how well they worked because the first battle where they were being used was also the battle where Aurora crapped out. Oh well.


I use my gunboats mostly for system defense.  There is one time that I used them in an offensive role, but that was because the defender didn't have them, and had never developed a radar system to pick them up.  Outside of their missile defense radar coverage they were blind.  This left a range bracket of about 50K km where the gunboats could engage, but not be fired upon.

The weapons I like the most for gunboats are the meson cannon.  While they don't do the damage that the laser can do, they are always a threat, even to a heavy battle line unit with heavy armor.  After meson's the missle is my next favorite, I tend to make a size 9 launcher with the max size reduction which gives it 3 hs.  A typical gunboat has 2, sometimes 3 of them onboard.  Their rate of fire is laughable, but if you have 6-8 gunboats then a salvo of 12-16 of those missles can do a lot of damage from a good range out.

Brian
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Brian »
 

Offline Erik L

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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2008, 06:19:21 PM »
If I read you right Brian, you maintain a point value on shields and then just decrease the amount of generators, i.e. 30pts of shields always?

I do somewhat the opposite. I dedicate say enough hull for strength 10 alpha shields, then when I have eta/theta/etc shields, I've got substantial shielding.

I think the reason I tend not to go with heavier armor, and this could be a misperception on my part, is that I usually build missiles (over size 2) that can penetrate 4-6 points of armor, so why bother?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Erik Luken »
 

Offline Haegan2005

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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 02:54:08 AM »
In general I have not been able t spend too much time p;aying in Auroa, but generally I have been able to reach mid level tech. I start with low pops in the 300 range.
I use shields mostly instead of hull armor. Internally armored systems are used in ships that are expected to need to absorb cascades of damage from Precursors and evil aliens. Armored magazines, crew quarters, etc would be very useful for this. This all being said, how many points of damage you can take is moot if you can't hit the other guy and he is hitting you :lol: .
I am still using 2.0 so gun boats are not an issue, but system defense is initially where I would use them, until my fighters were up to par. I would like to see a fight with them against standard ships and against each other.
Normally I start at 300k tech points and then add basic weapons and ship tech after that(roughly 5k more on average)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Haegan2005 »
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 09:56:54 AM »
Quote from: "Brian"
Kurt Wrote:
Quote
How many people use armor on their ships, rather than, or in addition, to, shields? If so, at what tech level do you use armor, and how much do you use

I do tend to armor up bigger ships once I hit the 4th level of armor.  Just a couple of points initially.  At the same time the ships would have better shield efficiency's available but they don't tend to get any stronger total shield strength.  The tradeoff is hard to quantify, but in the last couple of battles I was running it made a huge difference.  I had two seperate, large fleets engage from maximum ranges on in.  The one with the heavier shields and 1 point of armor was losing ships from the start.  The one that had 3 points of armor and about 2/3 the shields didn't lose anyone untill the range closed by about 60,000 km.  It ended up making a huge difference.  The fleets were almost identical in tech and cost, yet almost half of the armor heavy fleet survived, and only a couple of the other fleets ships managed to escape.  The general tech level was at around the 5th level of reasearch across the board.  Both fleets were balanced with missle and beam weapons, no fighters however.

This is very interesting.  I suspected as much, but I get the feeling, based on designs posted to the group, that most people don't use armor much.  

Quote from: "Brian"
As far as armored systems go, about the only one I use consistantly is the fuel bunker, that extra couple of points can make a big difference against the marginal shots that are just barely getting through the armor at longer range, or against smaller missle warheads.  I ocasionaly use armored power plants, mostly on heavy assult ships.  I almost never find the aromored engines to be worth it unless it is also a dedicated defense ship/almost a base design.

I always like to have at least one armored fuel tank on my warships, otherwise the enemy can get an easy kill by destroying the tanks.  I particularly like to use an armored reactor if the ship is going to only have one reactor, but that isn't always feasible, after all, if the ship is going to have one reactor its probably pretty small and won't have a lot of extra space for armor.  

Quote from: "Brian"
Kurt Wrote:
Quote
What about gunboats? What role do you tend to use them in? Missile boats and fast attack craft (with various types of weapons) are the obvious roles, but are there others? In the Quad-System campaign I was using gunboats armed with a fast-firing 15 cm plasma carronade as my primary planetary defense unit. I can't say how well they worked because the first battle where they were being used was also the battle where Aurora crapped out. Oh well.

I use my gunboats mostly for system defense.  There is one time that I used them in an offensive role, but that was because the defender didn't have them, and had never developed a radar system to pick them up.  Outside of their missile defense radar coverage they were blind.  This left a range bracket of about 50K km where the gunboats could engage, but not be fired upon.

The weapons I like the most for gunboats are the meson cannon.  While they don't do the damage that the laser can do, they are always a threat, even to a heavy battle line unit with heavy armor.  After meson's the missle is my next favorite, I tend to make a size 9 launcher with the max size reduction which gives it 3 hs.  A typical gunboat has 2, sometimes 3 of them onboard.  Their rate of fire is laughable, but if you have 6-8 gunboats then a salvo of 12-16 of those missles can do a lot of damage from a good range out.

Brian


I like the meson idea, no warship, no matter how it is armored or shielded, could ignore that for long.  

My last planetary defense gunboat design had five size three launchers (IIRC) with a rate of fire that meant they could only engage once in a battle.  Five launchers meant that a squadron of eight could throw forty missiles.  The only problem with this design was that the race didn't have very good missile tech, and that meant that the missiles had only two point warheads, which are easy to armor against for even a low tech race.  

Kurt
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Kurt »
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2008, 10:04:39 AM »
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
In general I have not been able t spend too much time p;aying in Auroa, but generally I have been able to reach mid level tech. I start with low pops in the 300 range.
I use shields mostly instead of hull armor. Internally armored systems are used in ships that are expected to need to absorb cascades of damage from Precursors and evil aliens. Armored magazines, crew quarters, etc would be very useful for this. This all being said, how many points of damage you can take is moot if you can't hit the other guy and he is hitting you :lol: .
I am still using 2.0 so gun boats are not an issue, but system defense is initially where I would use them, until my fighters were up to par. I would like to see a fight with them against standard ships and against each other.
Normally I start at 300k tech points and then add basic weapons and ship tech after that(roughly 5k more on average)


This brings up an important point.  It has been my experience in Aurora that speed is life.  If your fleet is faster than the enemy's, then you can decide to engage or not, and can decide the range of engagement.  If you have both speed and weapons/range advantage, there is virtually no way the enemy can win.  If you have a speed advantage only you can make it very difficult for the enemy to win.  If the enemy has the speed and range advantage then you have a big problem that you need to remedy right now.  

There are a lot of variations here, of course.  In my Jovian Campaign, the Earthers were at a decided disadvantage in terms of both speed and weapons, and I was forced to try to come up with ways to alleviate these problems.  Armoring against enemy weapons, developing new systems, and forcing the faster enemy to engage even when at a disadvantage were all things I was working on.  

Kurt
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Kurt »
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: An Aurora Discussion for the new year
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2008, 10:12:40 AM »
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Quote from: "Kurt"
A discussion on various Aurora topics:

How many people use armor on their ships, rather than, or in addition, to, shields?  If so, at what tech level do you use armor, and how much do you use?
I tend to leave default armor (1 for ships, 3 for PDCs), unless I am building a dedicated planetary assault ship.

Hmmm...That's quite light for PDC's, at least in my campaigns.  I tend to go with either no armor (1), or heavy armor (5+), depending on my industrial capacity and need.  

Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Quote from: "Kurt"
How many people use internal armor of any sort?  Does anyone use armored engines or power plants?  
Very rarely anymore. Initially, I used armored bunkers on warships, and armored plants and the like, but I can't recall the last time I did.


Hmmm...interesting.  This design strategy reminds me of the Italian Naval designs around WW II and before.  They tended to prefer fast, lightly armored designs, even for BB's, on the theory that speed was life, and that evading fire was better than trying to resist it.  It didn't work out well for them, but I don't think it was a problem with the designs, but rather more of an institutional and political problem.  

Kurt
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Kurt »