Active Grav Sensors

[Barkhorn (OP)]

I'm trying to build my first military fleet, and I'm quite overwhelmed.   I have no idea how to begin designing my missiles.   By this I don't mean what buttons to click, I mean I don't know where to start or what to aim for.   Everything relies on everything else, and it all gets confusing.

I also have a more specific question.   I'm designing the sensors for my main sensor craft, and I'm stuck on designing an active search sensor for spotting missiles.   I have Active Grav Strength 21, EM sensitivity 6, and the absolute best range I can get on a size 6 missile is only 6. 87 million km.   That seems puny to me, and yet its the strongest sensor I can build at that resolution, 50HS, and a whopping 10k rp to research.   What can I do to improve this?  Or am I just missing something and its actually fine?

[telegraph]

Why would you want to actively track size 6 missiles at a range of millions km?

[Barkhorn (OP)]

to shoot them down?

I've seen designs for missiles on the forums that go 60 million km or more.   I figured I should have AMM coverage of fair percentage of that.

Or am I severely over-estimating how much warning I need to nail ASM's?  This is my first military after all.

[Panopticon]

You are over-estimating what you need. AMM move really fast, and size one launchers should be reloading fast enough to get multiple launches per enemy salvo, assuming you aren't grossly out-teched anyway. I usually plan around a 2mkm interception zone myself.

[telegraph]

I greatly dislike missiles in general and amm in particular.
However the longer the range of amm, the less speed and agility it will have. That means that amm missile should be as short range as possible. So if you are building a fleet for tight formations - a 20-30 sec worth of asm range should be more then enough. Or 10-20 if you will use the final defensive fire order.
That actually implies that you should know the speed of the enemy missiles. And that I actually true for any military design in aurora: everything can be countered and counter-countered.

[Kirkegaard]

You can add extra sensors (Total sensor strength) that will give you an increased range.

For anti missile defense you don't really need that long range thou, since you most likely will use super fast small missiles with limited range to shot them down with.

[telegraph]

Active sensors stack? That is interesting, because as far as I remember passive do not.

[Nathan_]

they don't stack, but if they are on different ships you can atleast form a picket line.

[Kirkegaard]

Active sensors stack? That is interesting, because as far as I remember passive do not.

Not on the ship, but when you design them.

[sloanjh]

Not on the ship, but when you design them.

As in "one (bigger) sensor with a higher strength value".

John

[Charlie Beeler]

What active sensor range you need versus what you can attain is dependent on a few things. 

Active sensor range is a function of both Active sensor Sensitivity and EM Sensor Sensitivity.  Barkhorn, the part that that your having trouble with is that your EM Sensor Sensitivity is 2 tech levels behind your Active sensor Sensitivity.

Needed range is function of AMM speed and range vs ASM speed.  For illustration AMM speed is 38k/kps with a range of 120seconds(4.56mkm) and the ASM speed is 32k/kps.  For a max range intercept you need to detect the ASM at a range of a little over 8.25mkm.

Why would anyone want this kind of range?  If you designed the AMM suite with very few launchers but deep magazines you need to get as many salvos off as possible before the ASM reach you.  Why?  Because before adding any missile agility this AMM only has an 11.7% hit chance.  Even with a PD ratio of 5v1 that's only a little over 50% chance of stopping any one missile.  With the extended reach there is time for follow on salvos.

Assume instead that the AMM has enough agility for a Maneuver Rating of 16, speed is down to 34k/kps with a range of only 50seconds(1.7mkm).  Intercept chance is now around 17% with a 5v1 change greater than 80%.  The needed detection range is now just over 3.1mkm.  Even at that range the salvo in space can be up (assuming a 10second cyclic rate) to 5 with time for 5 more as needed. 

The Active sensor with the OP's tech is now reachable at 23hs.  If the EM tech was at the same level as AG the sensor could be a more reasonable 12hs.

[Kirkegaard]

As in "one (bigger) sensor with a higher strength value".

John

And as one solution to the question raised by the OP.

[Barkhorn (OP)]

I improved my EM sensor tech, and the numbers are making more sense now.   Thank you Charlie.   I also think I can use these numbers to design my missiles with, but that raises another question.   How can I know the range and speed of a missile if I haven't designed the engine yet?  Do I just need to keep guessing at engine designs till I get one that makes a good missile?

[Charlie Beeler]

I improved my EM sensor tech, and the numbers are making more sense now.   Thank you Charlie.   I also think I can use these numbers to design my missiles with, but that raises another question.   How can I know the range and speed of a missile if I haven't designed the engine yet?  Do I just need to keep guessing at engine designs till I get one that makes a good missile?

Best quik option is a spreadsheet.  Most of the relevent formuli are in the v6 topic in the mechanics section.  Engine design completion changed with v6 and that is why the data related to both ship and missile engines can be found there. 

There have been a couple of posts referencing a sheet that can be online.  I've looked at that sheet and it's a place to start from.  Be aware that the rounding for agility msp is incorrect.  I shouldn't say incorrect, but does leave msp that could be used elsewhere.

Yes, I have a sheet that I use... but I don't put it out for use for several reasons.  Among them is that it uses a direct extract from the game database that I've made some alterations too. 

[Sharp]

And as one solution to the question raised by the OP.

OP already stated he was using size 50 HS sensors so that is already as big as sensor is going to get, no further stackage will increase, however you can have ships ahead of other ships in fleets so coverage can be spread out but as many people are already stating, it's unlikely to need that big an active sensor for missiles anyway and improve EM sensitivity to help as well.