Author Topic: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)  (Read 17321 times)

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Offline Demonides

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #75 on: June 08, 2018, 08:28:15 AM »
Maybe a mass limit that destabilizes WH for some time like in Honor Harington books? Only JG construction increases / removes these restrictions
 

Offline Whitecold

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #76 on: June 08, 2018, 09:26:43 AM »
Maybe a mass limit that destabilizes WH for some time like in Honor Harington books? Only JG construction increases / removes these restrictions
I am not sure what you mean. Currently JG provides infinite capacity, without a gate or a drive you can't transit at all.
 

Offline Demonides

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #77 on: June 08, 2018, 09:44:44 AM »
Combined system with EvE-Online and Honor Harrington.
"WH" without "JG" has a limited weight limit that can be transferred at a given time (ships must have "JE"). Tyto construction JG abolishes this limit. The whole idea lies in the fact that it is not possible to transfer a huge fleet at a given moment when "WH" does not have "JG"
 

Offline Whitecold

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #78 on: June 08, 2018, 12:53:37 PM »
Combined system with EvE-Online and Honor Harrington.
"WH" without "JG" has a limited weight limit that can be transferred at a given time (ships must have "JE"). Tyto construction JG abolishes this limit. The whole idea lies in the fact that it is not possible to transfer a huge fleet at a given moment when "WH" does not have "JG"
That would be a completely different system though. Currently the gates remove the requirement of having a Jump drive installed. The only point where you actually care about the speed at which you pass a wormhole is on assault, which is the one point where you will most likely not have time to set up jump gates
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2018, 07:53:07 PM »
Easy enough to say that but I'll refer you to my posts up thread asking all sorts of follow up questions about the practicalities and balance of this. Basically "What do you do with half finished stations?" and "How do you stop players making all their military ships as stations (to avoid construction yard restraints), then tugging them into battle?"

"What do you do with half finished stations?"
I make them easily destroyable.  Like, 1 hit point per million tons easy.

"How do you stop players making all their military ships as stations (to avoid construction yard restraints), then tugging them into battle?"
I don't.  I subscribe to the Number One Rule of Aurora:  The software is not interested in preventing you from cheating at solitaire.
 

Offline JacenHan

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #80 on: June 10, 2018, 10:33:49 PM »
Stations already have a limit to prevent military use: they have no armor (according to the new "structural shells" rules).
 

Offline Hazard (OP)

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #81 on: June 11, 2018, 05:13:04 AM »
The other limit is that as armed ships they'll be military ships, so they'll need maintenance.
 

Offline Zincat

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2018, 05:50:24 AM »
... uhm... This thread was supposed to discuss whether or not jump gates (which Steve himself has said will be renamed to stabilized jump points) should be destructible/ destabilizable. Now you're talking of... limited size transfers? Half finished stations? What?

Steve has said that unless someone convinces him that gameplay would be better if jump points can be destabilized, he is inclined to make them permanent.

I really don't think he is interested in making stations to increase jump capacity, or anything else that would completely change the current system...
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #83 on: June 11, 2018, 08:05:56 AM »
My own thoughts are that the current jump gates should be highly advanced spoiler tech, or really far down the tech tree, because they do allow significant savings on the logistical costs of running an empire, for a few cheap ships. Maybe rename them to stabilized wormhole to denote that they are permanent .
I would like if jump gates were designed like other stations, perhaps a jump gate module thats 1000 HS and has a 100,000 ton jump rating. Higher tech levels either being lighter or having better jump rating, multiple modules or stations would stack improving maximum jump size.
That basic module is heavier per ton of jump rating than a basic rating 4 commercial jump drive, but offers certain advantages.
Stacking a few modules doesn't require extra very expensive research, like larger standard jump engines would.
Gates allow military traffic as well as commercial (maybe they should have a tenth the tonnage rating for military traffic though)
No jump sickness, fleets are ready immediately after jumping through.
No squadron limit.
Gates could perhaps have a default high squadron radius (maybe double the equivalent level of jump drive tech) when combat jumps are made, but a 0 radius for standard jumps.
Gates are commercial systems, so the station can sit on a jump point much longer than a military jump tender could.
Disadvantages however are:
Gates would be one way, each jump point needs 2 to allow traffic.
But this is a also a good thing, if hostile enemies enter a system you can pull that systems gate back, and the corresponding gate in the other system will still allow unrestricted combat jumps in.

This could easily be argued to give you way too much power over jump points, just tug a gate into position and you can assault the next system without penalty, without the need for micromanaging jump escorts, without fear of stationed defense equipment tearing apart your forces while sensor blinded.
I argue that you should keep an eye on your borders and destroy hostile gate ships before they get deployed, if one is deployed what's stopping you from jumping in and taking it out? They're big and vulnerable unless heavily armoured, and then you're looking at a very costly military ship (assault gates? maintenence for a military ship with a gate should be quite high).
As a potential counter to this I would suggest that if another non friendly gate is on the other side you loose the perfect jump and get normal sensor blindness etc.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 09:27:08 AM by MarcAFK »
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Offline Whitecold

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #84 on: June 11, 2018, 11:03:25 AM »
@MarcAFK I still like the idea better of designing gate components as a variant of jump drive components, but overall I see the same issue that jump gates as they are now are just too cheap and too good.

If Steve does not want to change anything about the gates, I would very much like to see an option to ban all JGs and associated constructors, and using only jump tenders (which you can call gates if you like)
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #85 on: June 11, 2018, 11:52:13 AM »
I would welcome that kind of customization.
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #86 on: June 11, 2018, 03:43:45 PM »
... uhm... This thread was supposed to discuss ...
The longer a thread grows, the higher the chance of discussion venturing into hitherto unknown lands. It is known.
 

Offline Whitecold

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #87 on: June 11, 2018, 03:54:06 PM »
... uhm... This thread was supposed to discuss ...
The longer a thread grows, the higher the chance of discussion venturing into hitherto unknown lands. It is known.
Also, making gates a ship component automatically makes them destructible. So I would consider it still on track.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #88 on: June 12, 2018, 06:17:05 AM »
In earlier versions, you needed five jump gate components to build a jump gate. They were built in factories, moved to the jump gate by freighter and assembled by construction ship.

The component requirement was removed with general player consensus that it was tedious and didn't add to game play. What remained was the construction ship and the current system. I don't want to go down a similar path to one that was already tested and rejected.
 

Offline QuakeIV

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Re: Jump Gate Construction/Destruction (split suggestions)
« Reply #89 on: June 12, 2018, 09:10:45 PM »
If there was some way to do it without the implied level of micromanagement that the game would require for that, I would be in favor of adding it back in.  As it is, the content from that isn't worth the hassle probably.