First Carrier Group

[HaliRyan (OP)]

Ok, I've designed my first carrier-based battle group, but I'd like some feedback on what potential changes I could make to increase its effectiveness.   My current level of tech is roughly tier 3 (magneto-plasma drive) with 3 colonized systems, and I plan on using this fleet to back up my expansion as I build jump gates into the great unknown. 

First ship is the carrier, my goal was to keep above 5 km/s while keeping as much hangar space as I could. 

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Apollo class Carrier    53,300 tons     2986 Crew     8332.8 BP      TCS 1066  TH 2720  EM 0
5103 km/s     Armour 4-126     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 35     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 649%    IFR: 9%    Maint Capacity 4420 MSP    Max Repair 60 MSP    Est Time: 4.27 Years
Hangar Deck Capacity 20000 tons     Magazine 2000    

Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (68)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 2,500,000 Litres    Range 120.6 billion km   (273 days at full power)

CIWS-160 (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Lance Mk 2 Anti-Ship Missile (320)  Speed: 35,200 km/s   End: 19.5m    Range: 41.1m km   WH: 9    Size: 5    TH: 117 / 70 / 35
Dart Mk 1 AMM (400)  Speed: 56,800 km/s   End: 0.7m    Range: 2.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 246 / 147 / 73

Strike Group
40x Purgatory Heavy Fighter   Speed: 9090 km/s    Size: 5.5
5x SWACS Early Warning Craft   Speed: 6578 km/s    Size: 7.6
35x Sky Larrisa Interceptor   Speed: 12500 km/s    Size: 4

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

The Purgatory is supposed to be my main workhorse, launching attacks at up to 800m km from the carrier to hopefully keep it safe.   The SWACS is a mobile sensor platform, might be too slow, but it can hopefully keep eyes on an enemy fleet and/or provide targetting locks for the the fighters.   The interceptor is shorter ranged with increased speed, my idea was to keep these as a reserve force for AMM duty or extra punch if anything gets too close. 

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Purgatory class Heavy Fighter    275 tons     3 Crew     47.5 BP      TCS 5.5  TH 25  EM 0
9090 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Annual Failure Rate: 55%    IFR: 0.8%    Maint Capacity 0 MSP    Max Repair 13 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years
Magazine 20    

FTR Magneto-plasma Drive E770 (1)    Power 50.4    Fuel Use 7700%    Signature 25.2    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 1.7 billion km   (51 hours at full power)

Size 5 Box Launcher (4)    Missile Size 5    Hangar Reload 37.5 minutes    MF Reload 6.2 hours
Missile Fire Control FC43-R160 (1)     Range 43.8m km    Resolution 160
Lance Mk 2 Anti-Ship Missile (4)  Speed: 35,200 km/s   End: 19.5m    Range: 41.1m km   WH: 9    Size: 5    TH: 117 / 70 / 35

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes


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SWACS class Early Warning Craft    380 tons     9 Crew     135.5 BP      TCS 7.6  TH 25  EM 0
6578 km/s     Armour 1-4     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 76%    IFR: 1.1%    Maint Capacity 0 MSP    Max Repair 105 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years

FTR Magneto-plasma Drive E770 (1)    Power 50.4    Fuel Use 7700%    Signature 25.2    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 3.1 billion km   (5 days at full power)

SWACS Search Sensor MR115-R100 (1)     GPS 10500     Range 115.5m km    Resolution 100

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes


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Sky Larrisa class Interceptor    200 tons     3 Crew     47.5 BP      TCS 4  TH 25  EM 0
12500 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 1.5
Annual Failure Rate: 40%    IFR: 0.6%    Maint Capacity 0 MSP    Max Repair 21 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years
Magazine 10    

FTR Magneto-plasma Drive E770 (1)    Power 50.4    Fuel Use 7700%    Signature 25.2    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0.6 billion km   (12 hours at full power)

Size 1 Box Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Hangar Reload 7.5 minutes    MF Reload 1.2 hours
AMM Fire Control FC6-R1 (1)     Range 6.9m km    Resolution 1
Dart Mk 1 AMM (10)  Speed: 56,800 km/s   End: 0.7m    Range: 2.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 246 / 147 / 73

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

Heimdallr is my command ship.   Has a flag bridge so I can bring my fleet commanders with me and a bunch of the best sensors I could make/research in a reasonable amount of time.   I decided to put much more armor on it than the carriers, as I'm guessing the giant EM signature will probably get it targeted a lot?

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Heimdallr class Command Ship    15,350 tons     1226 Crew     3848 BP      TCS 307  TH 800  EM 0
5211 km/s     Armour 12-55     Shields 0-0     Sensors 220/220/0/0     Damage Control Rating 20     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 94%    IFR: 1.3%    Maint Capacity 3134 MSP    Max Repair 630 MSP    Est Time: 2.76 Years
Flag Bridge    

Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (20)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 83.7 billion km   (186 days at full power)

CIWS-160 (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Small Craft Detection Sensor MR154-R20 (1)     GPS 6300     Range 155.0m km    Resolution 20
Wide Field Area Sensor MR876-R160 (1)     GPS 100800     Range 876.6m km    Resolution 160
High-Grade Thermal Sensor TH20-220 (1)     Sensitivity 220     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  220m km
High-Grade EM Detection Sensor EM20-220 (1)     Sensitivity 220     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  220m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Third big ship is a dual-purpose escort cruiser.   My idea for this one was to provide pointblank AM defense with the ability to slug it out if I need a distraction to let the carriers get away, or need to assault through a jump point.   

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Neivrdlalh  class Escort Cruiser    15,250 tons     1365 Crew     3061 BP      TCS 305  TH 800  EM 0
5245 km/s     Armour 10-54     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 9     PPV 90
Annual Failure Rate: 206%    IFR: 2.9%    Maint Capacity 1129 MSP    Max Repair 154 MSP    Est Time: 2.18 Years

Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (20)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 84.3 billion km   (186 days at full power)

Twin R6/C3 Meson Cannon Turret (9x2)    Range 60,000km     TS: 16650 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Meson Turret Fire Control S08 64-16000 (3)    Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22
Stellarator Fusion Reactor PB-1 AR-0 (9)     Total Power Output 54    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Missile Search Sensor MR2-R1 (1)     GPS 21     Range 2.3m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Last one is a destroyer escort with a pure AMM focus. 

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Romeo class Destroyer Escort    9,250 tons     721 Crew     1752 BP      TCS 185  TH 600  EM 0
6486 km/s     Armour 6-39     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 16
Annual Failure Rate: 171%    IFR: 2.4%    Maint Capacity 474 MSP    Max Repair 60 MSP    Est Time: 2.54 Years
Magazine 816    

Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (15)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres    Range 97.3 billion km   (173 days at full power)

Dart AMM Launcher (16)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
AMM Fire Control FC6-R1 (4)     Range 6.9m km    Resolution 1
Dart Mk 1 AMM (816)  Speed: 56,800 km/s   End: 0.7m    Range: 2.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 246 / 147 / 73

Missile Search Sensor MR2-R1 (1)     GPS 21     Range 2.3m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Planned order of battle is 2 carriers with associated fighters, 1 command ship, 4-5 cruisers, 2-3 destroyers.   Hopefully the cruiser and destroyer turn out to be useless during the fleet's lifetime, but I figured it was better safe than sorry. 

Oh, and I'm aware I have no jump capability, but I plan on pretty much throwing gates down as I go. 

So.   Comments/suggestions?

[Erik L]

Just be sure you put your cruisers and destroyers as escort and detach them from the carriers. With sufficient spacing they should be able to intercept anything heading to the carriers and command ship.

In my experience though, the largest ship gets targeted first.

[HaliRyan (OP)]

Hmm. . .  Can I space the cruisers out in front of the carriers as escorts? I learned to do that with my AMM ships in my last game, but I thought I read somewhere on here that with beam-based point defense it was better to leave them in the main group and set them to final defensive fire mode?

[Thiosk]

Hmm. . .  Can I space the cruisers out in front of the carriers as escorts? I learned to do that with my AMM ships in my last game, but I thought I read somewhere on here that with beam-based point defense it was better to leave them in the main group and set them to final defensive fire mode?

As I understand it, area defense attacks over a wider range-- but I think you're right, final defensive fire only attacks right before collision.

As I understand it.

[Erik L]

As I understand it, area defense attacks over a wider range-- but I think you're right, final defensive fire only attacks right before collision.

As I understand it.

Final defensive fire is also only per ship. If the carrier is targeted, and your cruiser is arms length away, the cruiser won't interdict the missiles if it is set to final defensive fire.

[HaliRyan (OP)]

Are you sure? There's 2 settings for final defensive fire on my ships and one of them is labeled as self-only, which I assumed means the other must cover the task group as well?

[Sloshmonger]

Just be aware that those will not work outside of your jumpgate network, unless you're planning on adding a huge jump tender to the fleet.

[Hawkeye]

Are you sure? There's 2 settings for final defensive fire on my ships and one of them is labeled as self-only, which I assumed means the other must cover the task group as well?

Yes, regualr final defensive fire works for the entire task group.

That said, I do belive this assumes all ships are in one place. Once you split off your escorts to their escort positions, each escort(group) creates its own task group, and will only protect itself/its own group until it rejoins the main group

[HaliRyan (OP)]

Ok, that works then.  The cruisers would be staying in the carrier task group unless there's a gate to assault through or a Hail-Mary distraction needed, the destroyers would be the only ones consistently separating to move to an interception position.

[chrislocke2000]

That looks like a serious task force!

Personally I don't think I would like to put quite so many eggs in one basket with that huge carrier. I also normally work on the basis that all my ships should be able to be jumped rather than reliant on gates. If you read Steve's NATO v Soviets campaign where he has similarly large carriers, you will see there were a few times where he was unable to use them because of the lack of jump gates or they got stuck for half a year waiting for one to be built so they could jump out.

Given the size of your hanger deck your ammo capacity looks pretty low. Two reloads for your fighters are not that much in my experience.

[HaliRyan (OP)]

Hmm... You think I should lower the hangar deck for more ammo? I've got a pair of ammo colliers for rendezvousing with reloads, and I figured 2 full reloads for all 40 fighters it means either I've won or more ammo won't help, but it's all just theory for me at the moment unfortunately.

I could always drop a pair of hangar decks and reduce the number of interceptors to 25 from 35 to grab more magazine space. They're 200 tons each so it works out easily. I could also just increase the number of magazines with additional engines to keep the same speed, but the carriers are already a huge investment at 53k tons.

[Hawkeye]

If you up the ammo, remember to also up the fuel tanks. Your 40 Purgatories will suck 800k fuel (assuming they have emptied their tanks) each time, they refuel. So, two loads of ammo looks quite good, as they could also refuel two times and leave some fuel left for the carrier itself.

Of course, the simpler (not easier) sulution would be to have a couple of fleet oilers accompany your colliers (or have a combined oiler/collier design)

[Charlie Beeler]

Yes, regular final defensive fire works for the entire task group.

That said, I do believe this assumes all ships are in one place. Once you split off your escorts to their escort positions, each escort(group) creates its own task group, and will only protect itself/its own group until it rejoins the main group

Not exactly.  Final defensive fire will attempt to engage any missile within the range setting that will attack this movement cycle.  This is limited to friendly ships only not just the defenders task group.  Depending of treaty level, allied ships are supposed to be defended as well.  If I recall correctly, you can make a change on the diplomatic screen to exclude a particular allied race from this mutual defense.  Other than that the only limitation is weapons range and having enough fire controls with weapons to engage salvos attacking this cycle.

[Brian Neumann]

Yes, regualr final defensive fire works for the entire task group.

That said, I do belive this assumes all ships are in one place. Once you split off your escorts to their escort positions, each escort(group) creates its own task group, and will only protect itself/its own group until it rejoins the main group

The key here is not task group, but the range setting you put on the fire control when you set up the point defense options.  Normally people leave this at 10,000km.  If you stretch this out to 30,000km you will shoot at any missiles that are going to hit within this 5 second movement pulse when they hit 30,000km from the ship with the point defense.  The drawback to this is it has a lower chance to hit because of the greater range.  The benifit is your ships can be somewhat dispersed and still give some cover fire.

Brian

[chuckles73]

I'd probably swap some of your interceptors for more heavy fighters.

Also, you should try whipping up an experimental EWACS platform around a FAC engine instead of a fighter engine. It is annoying to need to take up a shipyard to build them, but having a month of on-station time is often more useful than swapping them out every few days. Design the ship and see if you like the tradeoffs.