Several newbie questions...

[Nameless One (OP)]

Hi, everyone.  I have a few problems I can't find a solution to.  It would be great if more experienced players could give me some advice.

1) I have designed geo and grav survey ships as detailed in the tutorial, created 2 of each and ordered them to survey.  After some time, they started running out of fuel while trying to get back to Earth to refuel.  I changed the conditional to refuel when fuel is 50% or lower and expanded their fuel tanks to 100k but they are still running out of fuel.  I have a tanker rescuing them but this is growing boring since the problem is happening like once per month with 4 ships total.  Is there any way to avoid this or at least automate the rescue tanker?

2) I created a fleet of 16 laser cruisers designed mostly according to the tutorial to satisfy protection requirements on Earth.  I have them on task force training until they report they are losing morale, then I tell them to refuel and resupply and leave them without orders until they report they have completed their shore leave.  However, when completing shore leave, some of them report the crew is suffering from overcrowding.  What does this mean and how do I deal with the problem?

3) I have designated a nearby comet as a colony and created a demand for automated mines.  I build some automated mines on Earth and created a supply contract.  However, my only commercial shipping company is not building any ships.  I have subsidised them to 20k wealth but they still aren't building anything.  I read that in the latest versions shipping companies make their own designs and build their own ships.  Why isn't this happening to me? Do I have to design and research something for them, like maybe commercial engines and other modules?

4) Is there any data on how effective certain planetary installations are? Right now, I know I need more minerals and I want to build mines, but I have no idea how many is a good number

5) Is it possible to set up industry jobs so that items are produced one by one, like in Dwarf Fortress and clones? For example, I may want 20 mines but I want them to become available one by one as they are produced, not to wait until all 20 are completed.

6) When designing missiles, launchers and magazines, is there any way to judge how they are going to affect ship mass in tonnes? For example, I may design everything for size 6 just to find out that I could have fit larger missiles on my design without reaching the mass limit I decided to impose.  Researching everything size 6 just to try it out then researching size 7 when it proves larger missiles can fit is a waste of time.

7) Which sensors are absolutely necessary on ships? It's my understanding that ships without active sensors can't even shoot at enemies.  Is this correct? Also, are thermal and EM sensors optional?

I selected random starting tech when generating a new game and I got a module called ICBM Launch Control.  What is this?

[Erik L]

1. Conditional orders are two part, i.e. Refuel when 50%, at the nearest colony/tanker. Make sure you get the second part in there too.

2. Posting designs will go a long way to determining the cause, but it sounds like you do not have enough quarters on the ship.

3. I'm not sure on all the criteria, so I'll pass on this one.

4. Mines are affected not only by number, but also by available population (workers), and tech (efficiency). I think base tech is 10 or 12 tons per mine per year. Or maybe I'm thinking fuel. Anyway, increasing the base mineral extraction tech (look under logistics) will go a long way to improving the output.

5. You do not need to dedicate 100% of your construction output to one project. Say you want more factories, more mines and some research labs. You can split those 33/33/34% and they will progress in that manner. For the second part, if you dedicate say 50% of your output to building 50 mines, as each mine is finished, it is available for use.

6. You can check the "show size in tons" box on the component design window. This should show you how much your launchers and mags will take. Missiles won't affect the mass of the ship. They will be counted under the magazines. So 100 ton mag will take 100 tons full or empty.

7. Active are required for shooting. EM and Thermal are good for peeking about without announcing to everyone that you are there as active sensors will do.

8. ICBM Launch controls are used in pre-TN games in ICBM silos. Basically special tech that allows you to build missiles that can only be fired at the planet that launched them.

[Nameless One (OP)]

1.  Conditional orders are two part, i. e.  Refuel when 50%, at the nearest colony/tanker.  Make sure you get the second part in there too.

Yeah, I have them set up like that, but it seems that when the condition triggers they no longer have enough fuel to make it to the nearest colony, which is really strange considering that they should have 50% fuel left.

2.  Posting designs will go a long way to determining the cause, but it sounds like you do not have enough quarters on the ship.

Code: [Select]

Hosho class Cruiser    4,600 tons     134 Crew     424.8 BP      TCS 92  TH 200  EM 0
2173 km/s     Armour 3-24     Shields 0-0     Sensors 12/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 16
Maint Life 7.02 Years     MSP 173    AFR 56%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 6    5YR 92    Max Repair 32 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 4   

25 EP Nuclear Thermal Engine (8)    Power 25    Fuel Use 76%    Signature 25    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 5.1 billion km   (27 days at full power)

12cm C2 Visible Light Laser (4)    Range 80,000km     TS: 2173 km/s     Power 4-2     RM 2    ROF 10        4 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0
Fire Control S04 64-2000 (1)    Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 2000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (2)     Total Power Output 9    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 16     Range 960k km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR19-R100 (1)     GPS 3200     Range 19.2m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Aren't quarters automatically taken care of by the "game"?

5.  You do not need to dedicate 100% of your construction output to one project.  Say you want more factories, more mines and some research labs.  You can split those 33/33/34% and they will progress in that manner.  For the second part, if you dedicate say 50% of your output to building 50 mines, as each mine is finished, it is available for use.

Really? I put some %, on mines, factories, labs and infratsructure, not more than 10% on any single one of them.  I mostly checked the labs and I'm not seeing an increase in numbers, but maybe it just takes too long to complete a single lab.

When an installation is constructed, is it immediately active? If so, can an active installation be transported to another colony or do I have to do something to deactivate or package it first?

6.  You can check the "show size in tons" box on the component design window.  This should show you how much your launchers and mags will take.  Missiles won't affect the mass of the ship.  They will be counted under the magazines.  So 100 ton mag will take 100 tons full or empty.

I totally missed that.  Thanks.

8.  ICBM Launch controls are used in pre-TN games in ICBM silos.  Basically special tech that allows you to build missiles that can only be fired at the planet that launched them.

Makes sense.  Does pre-TN game actually generate multiple nations on the starting planet?

Thanks for prompt answers!

[Steve Walmsley]

Hi, everyone.  I have a few problems I can't find a solution to.  It would be great if more experienced players could give me some advice.

1) I have designed geo and grav survey ships as detailed in the tutorial, created 2 of each and ordered them to survey.  After some time, they started running out of fuel while trying to get back to Earth to refuel.  I changed the conditional to refuel when fuel is 50% or lower and expanded their fuel tanks to 100k but they are still running out of fuel.  I have a tanker rescuing them but this is growing boring since the problem is happening like once per month with 4 ships total.  Is there any way to avoid this or at least automate the rescue tanker?

2) I created a fleet of 16 laser cruisers designed mostly according to the tutorial to satisfy protection requirements on Earth.  I have them on task force training until they report they are losing morale, then I tell them to refuel and resupply and leave them without orders until they report they have completed their shore leave.  However, when completing shore leave, some of them report the crew is suffering from overcrowding.  What does this mean and how do I deal with the problem?

3) I have designated a nearby comet as a colony and created a demand for automated mines.  I build some automated mines on Earth and created a supply contract.  However, my only commercial shipping company is not building any ships.  I have subsidised them to 20k wealth but they still aren't building anything.  I read that in the latest versions shipping companies make their own designs and build their own ships.  Why isn't this happening to me? Do I have to design and research something for them, like maybe commercial engines and other modules?

5) Is it possible to set up industry jobs so that items are produced one by one, like in Dwarf Fortress and clones? For example, I may want 20 mines but I want them to become available one by one as they are produced, not to wait until all 20 are completed.

1) Try to design some fuel efficient engines. That will improve the length of time your survey ships can stay in action. BTW my survey ship in my current campaign has one million litres of fuel and fuel efficient engines. 100,000 litres with normal engines won't last that long. The fuel capacity line on the ship design should tell you how long the fuel will last.

2)  Make sure you give them longer than the default 3 months for crew accommodation. You can adjust this at the top left of the Class Design window.

3) Shipping companies will only start building ships when you have a second populated colony.

5) That is how it works normally. If you build 20 mines than each one will appear as soon as it is complete.

[Nameless One (OP)]

1) Try to design some fuel efficient engines.  That will improve the length of time your survey ships can stay in action.  BTW my survey ship in my current campaign has one million litres of fuel and fuel efficient engines.  100,000 litres with normal engines won't last that long.  The fuel capacity line on the ship design should tell you how long the fuel will last.

I have 109 days at full power and range of 15. 8 bil km, which is much more than they should need to survey within Sol.  I'll try updating designs to larger tanks and better engines, but I still don't understand why my conditional orders don't keep my survey ships safe from getting stuck without fuel in the middle of nowhere

2)  Make sure you give them longer than the default 3 months for crew accommodation.  You can adjust this at the top left of the Class Design window.

I'll look into it.  Thanks.

3) Shipping companies will only start building ships when you have a second populated colony.

Ah, I see.  I guess I'll have to move my mines manually.  Definitely don't want to populate the comet

5) That is how it works normally.  If you build 20 mines than each one will appear as soon as it is complete.

I'll check it out.  Maybe I'm already getting mines and factories and infrastructure, but I never bothered to look at those.

[Erik L]

Yeah, I have them set up like that, but it seems that when the condition triggers they no longer have enough fuel to make it to the nearest colony, which is really strange considering that they should have 50% fuel left.

If you have 51% fuel, you obviously have more than 50%. If you execute an increment long enough, your fuel might drop to 45%. (examples). This triggers the conditional, but the ship might be far enough away that it can't make it home.

Code: [Select]

Hosho class Cruiser    4,600 tons     134 Crew     424.8 BP      TCS 92  TH 200  EM 0
2173 km/s     Armour 3-24     Shields 0-0     Sensors 12/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 16
Maint Life 7.02 Years     MSP 173    AFR 56%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 6    5YR 92    Max Repair 32 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 4   

25 EP Nuclear Thermal Engine (8)    Power 25    Fuel Use 76%    Signature 25    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 5.1 billion km   (27 days at full power)

12cm C2 Visible Light Laser (4)    Range 80,000km     TS: 2173 km/s     Power 4-2     RM 2    ROF 10        4 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0
Fire Control S04 64-2000 (1)    Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 2000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (2)     Total Power Output 9    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 16     Range 960k km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR19-R100 (1)     GPS 3200     Range 19.2m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Aren't quarters automatically taken care of by the "game"?

As Steve mentioned, you need to increase the Intended Deployment time. After 3 months, your crews are looking to have some R&R time. Push it up to 18-24 months.

Really? I put some %, on mines, factories, labs and infratsructure, not more than 10% on any single one of them.  I mostly checked the labs and I'm not seeing an increase in numbers, but maybe it just takes too long to complete a single lab.

When an installation is constructed, is it immediately active? If so, can an active installation be transported to another colony or do I have to do something to deactivate or package it first?

Yes, it is immediately active assuming you have the requisite population to work it. Research labs need to be assigned to a scientist first. They are expensive and time consuming to build. If I recall, they need 2400 minerals to build. If your build rate is 10/factory/year, and you assign 10% of the output to it... You'll get basically 1 per factory. So 50 factories gets you 50 pts per year. 1 Lab = 48 years.

I totally missed that.  Thanks.

No problem

Makes sense.  Does pre-TN game actually generate multiple nations on the starting planet?

Nope. the pre-TN/Conventional start only means you start without the ability to build/research TN stuff. Additional nations require more work to set up, and probably should not be done prior to the release of 6.4 as war tends to break out really really fast without using SM mode to prevent it.

Thanks for prompt answers!

Beats working

[Black]

Ah, I see.  I guess I'll have to move my mines manually.  Definitely don't want to populate the comet

You don't need to populate the comet, colonize Luna or Mars. Then you just need to tell your civ companies to transport automines from Earth to your comet colony.

However, when completing shore leave, some of them report the crew is suffering from overcrowding.

I didn't know that short deployment time could cause crew overcrowding.

First thing that came to my mind is that you changed your design after some of those ships were constructed. If the altered design needs less crew, some of the crew quarters will be removed. Existing ships will be upgraded but the crew will remain same and it will cause overcrowding.

[Alfapiomega]

I have 109 days at full power and range of 15. 8 bil km, which is much more than they should need to survey within Sol.  I'll try updating designs to larger tanks and better engines, but I still don't understand why my conditional orders don't keep my survey ships safe from getting stuck without fuel in the middle of nowhere

Regarding the fuel that is really weird. Can you post a screenshot of the setting?

The only thing that comes to mind is the fact that the conditional order gets put behind the current orders (at the end of the list). In another words if you give it manual orders to survey Luna, Mars, Titan and asteroid 123, it will do all of those even if it runs below 50% of the fuel around Luna because the conditional order ends up being put at the end of the list. Or so it works with the primary/secondary orders. Maybe that's it?

[Erik L]

Regarding the fuel that is really weird. Can you post a screenshot of the setting?

The only thing that comes to mind is the fact that the conditional order gets put behind the current orders (at the end of the list). In another words if you give it manual orders to survey Luna, Mars, Titan and asteroid 123, it will do all of those even if it runs below 50% of the fuel around Luna because the conditional order ends up being put at the end of the list. Or so it works with the primary/secondary orders. Maybe that's it?

I believe conditionals wipe the order slate clean, then issue the conditional.

[joeclark77]

1) I have designed geo and grav survey ships as detailed in the tutorial, created 2 of each and ordered them to survey.  After some time, they started running out of fuel while trying to get back to Earth to refuel.  I changed the conditional to refuel when fuel is 50% or lower and expanded their fuel tanks to 100k but they are still running out of fuel.  I have a tanker rescuing them but this is growing boring since the problem is happening like once per month with 4 ships total.  Is there any way to avoid this or at least automate the rescue tanker?

Your ships have very short range for survey ships.  They have 109 days of fuel, right.  Let's say you're doing 30 day turns.  After two of those, you have use 60 days of fuel and have 49 days left.  Not enough to come back the distance you've already flown!  And that's assuming a best-case scenario.  What if you get down to 55 days of fuel (just over half) and then hit the "30 days" button?  Then you're 85 days out of port with 24 days of fuel left.

Long story short: build longer range survey ships.  I like to use civilian motors for mine.  Build a civilian engine with 0.3 power and size 40-50.  It'll sip fuel and you'll have hundreds of billions of km range with only a couple of small fuel tanks. 

2) I created a fleet of 16 laser cruisers designed mostly according to the tutorial to satisfy protection requirements on Earth.  I have them on task force training until they report they are losing morale, then I tell them to refuel and resupply and leave them without orders until they report they have completed their shore leave.  However, when completing shore leave, some of them report the crew is suffering from overcrowding.  What does this mean and how do I deal with the problem?

I suspect one of two things: (a) You altered the design, in spacemaster mode, after building the ships.  The altered ships do not "register" the changes all at the same time.  So maybe there are too few quarters now for the crew.  Or (b), one of the ships may have suffered damage to a crew quarter and run out of maintenance supplies to repair it.  This happens when they go on long tours, parts just start breaking down.  You need to resupply the ships at Earth and then go into the damage control window to order the ship to repair the damaged part.

[Nameless One (OP)]

I suspect one of two things: (a) You altered the design, in spacemaster mode, after building the ships.   The altered ships do not "register" the changes all at the same time.   So maybe there are too few quarters now for the crew.   Or (b), one of the ships may have suffered damage to a crew quarter and run out of maintenance supplies to repair it.   This happens when they go on long tours, parts just start breaking down.   You need to resupply the ships at Earth and then go into the damage control window to order the ship to repair the damaged part.

Now that I look at it, the design has 134 crew but actual ships have 142 each.  I can't add crew quarters manually though, and when I do an overhaul the crew numbers remain the same.  How do I fix this?

[Black]

Refit them in your shipyard.

[MarcAFK]

Turn on spacemaster and open class design screen, select the bugged design then unlock it, there is a checkbox in the top right corner to keep excess crew capacity, if you check that you can add extra crew quarters which won't be removed automatically. After fixing the design exit the design screen and then select each of the bugged ships in the individual ship window, that should reload the ships to be the same as the new design.

[joeclark77]

And next time you get the idea to alter a ship design after some are already built, you can save a lot of headache by simply deleting the old ones and creating some replacements with Fast OB.

[Erik L]

Better practice is to rev the ship. Use the Copy button and rename it. Maybe Steve could put in a pop up warning about changing ships designs that have ships already.