Choo Choo Trains and the Mega-Multiclass-Shipyard of BFN

[baconholic (OP)]

Now that I am a bit more familiar with Aurora, I experimented a bit more with my commercial ship designs and came up with some rather "unconventional" designs.  There's definitely a bit of exploits used in this, so if you don't like exploits, don't read forward.

The exploit:
The most important part of this design is the tractor beams and you'll need 2 of the train engines.  What you do is manually link the multiple units together using the Individual Ships->Miscellaneous->Tractor Link function.  You'll link Train Engine 001 to Train Engine 002, then Train Engine 002 to Commercial 001, Commercial 001 to Commercial 002, etc. 

If they are all linked properly, and the commercial platforms don't have an engine, then your entire task group will move at the max 5000 km/s of the train engine.  The links must be done in the order of 2 train engines follow by platforms with no engine.  All ships must have a Ship to Ship Tractor Beam.

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Bullet class Train Engine    6,000 tons     70 Crew     343.6 BP      TCS 120  TH 600  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 1-29     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 36    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 2   
Tractor Beam     

ION CE-0300EP T50x70 (2)    Power 300    Fuel Use 6.19%    Signature 300    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 110,000 Litres    Range 53.3 billion km   (123 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
Now for the actual commercial train cars.  I'll just post the terraformer, asteroid miner, and fuel tanker.  The other civilian designs are pretty much the same.

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Eden class Train Terraformer    254,350 tons     1020 Crew     5772.6 BP      TCS 5087  TH 0  EM 0
1 km/s     Armour 1-357     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 14    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 2   
Tractor Beam     
Terraformer: 10 module(s) producing 0.01 atm per annum


This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


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Carbon class Train Asteroid Miner    256,500 tons     2520 Crew     7207 BP      TCS 5130  TH 0  EM 0
1 km/s     Armour 1-359     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 18    Max Repair 120 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0   
Tractor Beam     
Asteroid Miner: 50 module(s) producing 700 tons per mineral per annum


This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


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Iraq class Train Tanker    252,900 tons     20 Crew     10482 BP      TCS 5058  TH 0  EM 0
1 km/s     Armour 1-356     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 26    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0   
Tractor Beam     

Fuel Capacity 250,000,000 Litres    Range N/A

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

Now the final piece of string that ties everything together.  You may have noticed that all the commercial designs are rather big.  Normally, you'll need a separate shipyard for each design.  I got this idea from another forum post that used the idea of a "blueprint" design as the base unit for retooling.  I just push it further and make the "blueprint" capable of multi-class build everything.

The bad thing about this "blueprint" is that it's extremely expensive to retool, so you'll want to take advantage of the free first retool to get it done.  The good thing is that you only need to retool once and you'll be set for the entire game.

With that said, here's the "blueprint":

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*Blueprint - 267kt COM class Blueprint    267,400 tons     10020 Crew     103380.6 BP      TCS 5348  TH 0  EM 0
1 km/s     Armour 1-369     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/1000     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 242    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 2   
Tractor Beam     


Geological Survey Sensors (1000)   1000 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


[bean]

I think you've crossed the line from 'exploit' to 'bug'.  I don't think you're supposed to be able to daisy-chain tractors, and you've definitely managed to break the engine system.  I'd guess that the game is looking at the speed produced by the first two linked craft, and then disregarding all of the others.  The test to confirm would be to make a tiny craft with just a tractor beam and link it in after the engine. 
The blueprint is a good idea, though.  Geosurvey sensors are about the most expensive commercial system, so anything can be built from them.

[83athom]

I don't think you're supposed to be able to daisy-chain tractors

That's how you are supposed to use them.

Now this is definitely a bug. It is supposed to use one section with engines then add the mass of all tractored craft to determine speed.

[Rich.h]

Putting aside the tractor bug here I do like the blueprint model shown. But I was under the impression that build/refit to a different class from the one a shipyard is tooled to required the second ship class to be within a certain BP%, is it simply the case that if you have a ship with a large amount of BP cost then it can build/refit to any class with a smaller amount of BP cost?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

it's only the 20% margin that matters, so if you tool the shipyard to a super-expensive design like in the OP, then virtually any normal commercial design within the tonnage range will be buildable.   This is the same effect that allows you to build freighters off of SYs tooled to colony ships but not vice versa; the main reason you can tool to freighters is that colony ships are so expensive.

You can also experience this effect with naval shipyards tooled to build large warships; sometimes they are able to also build commercial vessels of similar tonnage.

[Nyvis]

So the margin is only dependant on price and not components? I suppose it's easier to test, but it leads to less than logical situations.

[bean]

So the margin is only dependant on price and not components? I suppose it's easier to test, but it leads to less than logical situations.

This is correct.  It does lead to odd situations at times, but remember that 'easy to program' is a key criteria on these things.  Specifically, large military vessels often have a lot of very small craft that can be built at the same shipyard, because they cost so much less than the big ship. 

[Nyvis]

This is correct.  It does lead to odd situations at times, but remember that 'easy to program' is a key criteria on these things.  Specifically, large military vessels often have a lot of very small craft that can be built at the same shipyard, because they cost so much less than the big ship.

It's weird, because if it was this simple, a pair of ships of similar tonnage would always have one of the two able to build both. Or did I miss something?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Kinda?

like lets say you have two destroyer designs of identical tonnage. They have an identical armament and secondary systems. one has commercial engines that cost 400 bp, and costs 2000 bp total. the other has military engines that cost 1000 bp and costs 2600 bp total.   If the shipyard is tooled to the military design, then the difference between the two is just the commercial engines that cost 400 bp, which is only about 15% of the 2600 bp design's cost. so you could build both.  But if the shipyard is tooled to the commercial engine design, than the difference is the military engines, which cost 50% of the 2000 BP design's cost. Therefore, you could not build the military-engine design from the commercial yard.

However, if you had some sort of design that somehow costs 15,000 BP with identical tonnage tooled at that yard, then the every component for the commercial design (13%) and the military design (17%) are under the 20% margin, so you could build the 15000 bp design, the 2600 bp design, and the 2000 bp design from the same shipyard.

OTOH, if you had a missile ship of 2000 bp where 800 bp was missile weapons, and very similar 2000 bp energy combatant with 800 bp of energy weapons, neither tooling could build the other ship because they are both over the 20% limit.

[Nyvis]

Okay, so it does look at the components. Am I understanding right when I say removing a component is free? And differences in hull size do not count. Do armour tonnage count?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

differences in hull tonnage count more than anything :^)

Removing components is free. Armor is a component like anything else.

You can see the refit cost from a particular ship in the DAC screen. Or, if you have a design tooled, you can see  a detailed and explicit breakdown of refit costs (including the tonnage difference overhead) in the shipyards screen.

[bean]

It's weird, because if it was this simple, a pair of ships of similar tonnage would always have one of the two able to build both. Or did I miss something?

I was unclear.  The margin is dependent on refit price, which is dependent on components.  But the game doesn't just look at components.  If I have a ship that's 20,000 BP, most designs of 3000 BP or less will be buildable at the same shipyard, regardless of size (well, so long as they're below the shipyard's capacity) or what components they use.

[Sheb]

I was unclear.  The margin is dependent on refit price, which is dependent on components.  But the game doesn't just look at components.  If I have a ship that's 20,000 BP, most designs of 3000 BP or less will be buildable at the same shipyard, regardless of size (well, so long as they're below the shipyard's capacity) or what components they use.

Shouldn't it be "every ship of less than 4000 BP", since 4000 is 20% of 20000 BP?

[iceball3]

Shouldn't it be "every ship of less than 4000 BP", since 4000 is 20% of 20000 BP?

Well, not necessarily every ship. Size difference still is a cost margin to consider.

[bean]

Shouldn't it be "every ship of less than 4000 BP", since 4000 is 20% of 20000 BP?

No, because you have to pay the size overhead margin.  1000 BP was my estimate of that margin for typical cases.  Any ship of the same size could cost up to 4000 BP but ships of different sizes would have to be cheaper.