Author Topic: Starfire 3rd  (Read 2535 times)

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Offline crucis

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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2008, 02:17:02 PM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "crucis"
Why to build to less than max speed? Can't think of any reason.
That is really the problem. Its a no-brainer to put the maximum number of engines on a ship so there is no design decision involved.

True.


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Why to build to less than max size?  Well, under the old ISF SYD rules where build rates weren't always the same, I always found that it might be advantageous to build units at sizes that took advantage of the build rates.  For example, if my SYD's had a build rate of 27 hs/month and I needed some DD's ASAP, then maybe 27 hs DD's that I could turn out in a single month were more advantageous to build than a full sized 30 hs DD that'd take 2 months to build.  Or if your build rate was 25 hs/month, then perhaps a 125 hs SD (DN under the new nomeclature) that could be built in 5 mos. was a better option than a 130 hs SD that took 6 mos. to build.
That is a meta-gaming reason to build smaller hulls though rather than a realistic reason. If ships could be delivered partway through the month, they would all be full size.

Maybe and Maybe not.  You might want that 125 hs SD a week or 2 sooner than you could get the 130 hs SD.  ;)


Enuff for this reply...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by crucis »
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2008, 09:23:42 AM »
Quote from: "crucis"
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Again, this is similar to how Aurora handles damage. For missiles you can develop warhead tech, engine tech, fuel efficiency, active/thermal/EM sensor strengths, ECM strength, etc and then combine these in different ways to create different types and sizes of missiles. There are literally millions of potential combinations. Then you need to design appropriate missile launchers and missile fire control systems and combine them on a ship with all the other various ship systems.

Steve, this sounds like far more detail than I'd want to have to manage.  And I'm a pretty detail-accepting guy.

Remember that supposedly plenty of people don't particularly like all of the options that come with missiles at HT10+ in Starfire.  What you're describing for Aurora seems to step that level of complexity up a few notches.  That level of complexity may float some peoples' boats, but not everyones'.

With missiles, for example, what I'd prefer to do is to try to subsume the complexity of the options into limited versions of each grade of missile at each TL, so that players didn't have to worry about picking and choosing from a menu of options when it came to their missiles.  I might just say that, for example, a TL12 Capital Missile had X, Y, and Z capabilities and that was that.  I'd be trying to make the options and so forth invisible to the player and merely upgrade the overall missile every so often (TL wise).

Missiles aren't very complex to design. You just have a set of sliders with each slider representing the amount of space devoted to warhead, fuel, engine, etc. and as you move the sliders, the design for the missile appears below. You just press create when you have a design you like. There is a little more to it than that though. In Aurora its important to decide how you want to fight and then design ships and systems that fulfil that goal.

As a simple example, lets say you wanted to design a fast attack craft intended to launch one-off missile attacks. As FACs are restricted to 1000 tons, you need to decide how much of that tonnage will be devoted to sensors, fire control and missile launchers. You also need to make sure you design fire control and missiles that have similar range. Its quicker to use a previously designed system if you can so you don't need to research new systems. One way to approach it may be to decide that you will devote 100 tons to a missile fire control system and that you want to be able to target ships of 1000 tons or more. If your Empire has active sensor tech for strength 12 that gives you a fire control with a range of 14.4m kilometers. You might have a missile suited to that range, or you might design a new one which only devotes enough space to fuel to achieve that range while the rest goes to speed, warhead, armour, etc. Once you figure out how big the missile needs to be, you then need a suitable launcher. You also may need an active sensor with that type of range to find targets or you might design a whole new class that will serve as a long range scout intended to operate as part of a squadron with the missile armed FAC. That FAC would require larger sensors and may perhaps be unarmed. That is a simple example. Once you starting thinking about creating an escort group it can get more in-depth. Thinking about how you want to fight and the type of systems you need is a lot of fun. Getting all the new systems developed and the ship into production is also a challenge The actual mechanics of designing those systems is easy to do.

That is rather a long way of saying that adding a lot of variety isn't necessarily the same as adding a lot of complexity.

Steve
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Steve Walmsley »
 

Offline Sotak246

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« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2008, 08:11:32 PM »
Quote
With missiles, for example, what I'd prefer to do is to try to subsume the complexity of the options into limited versions of each grade of missile at each TL, so that players didn't have to worry about picking and choosing from a menu of options when it came to their missiles. I might just say that, for example, a TL12 Capital Missile had X, Y, and Z capabilities and that was that. I'd be trying to make the options and so forth invisible to the player and merely upgrade the overall missile every so often (TL wise).

While I am partial to this idea, I have played around with Aurora and Steve did an excellent job with his missle development sliders.

Now a cry for help.  I recentlly moved, and got a new computer, and  between the two somehow lost my copies of:
Interstellar War 4
Insurrection
Unified Technical Manual
Sky Marshal 2.

Anyone know where I can get them replaced since SDS doesn't sell them anymore?  I lost several other books/CDs to other games, but the Starfire ones are the ones I am most upset about.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Sotak246 »
 

Offline waresky

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« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2008, 06:26:02 AM »
Srry guys,an single example:
i LOVE Aurora,ive love too SA,but..ok ear that:

am play Campaign from 2054 (my choice date) and now r 2136..Colonizing,managing,palnning to mining,how who where and when are VERY addictive.
From 2054 at now ive 2 "indipendent" colony,1 dipendent from cargo and JumpGate lane,2 mining merely outpost colony..and 98 systems discovery,67 surveyed.

Aurora are the very BETTER (near traveller),realistic,difficult and addictivie for who love explore and colonizer,strategical sci-fi program.

Am must use paper for check galactic maps,and am use deepest the "Notes" for every single systems in galactic map,for planning,enjoiing or simple history of the Colony:)..
But in near 1 hundred years..ive 2 truly Colony indipendent..THIS r real.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by waresky »
 

Offline SteveAlt

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« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2008, 08:45:43 AM »
Quote from: "Sotak246"
Now a cry for help.  I recentlly moved, and got a new computer, and  between the two somehow lost my copies of:
Interstellar War 4
Insurrection
Unified Technical Manual
Sky Marshal 2.

Anyone know where I can get them replaced since SDS doesn't sell them anymore?  I lost several other books/CDs to other games, but the Starfire ones are the ones I am most upset about.

I have them all in PDF files or Word docs but the problem is that Marvin is extremely protective about the copyright of the "out of print" electronic products that he has chosen to stop selling. Even though he refuses to sell them, he doesn't want anyone else to share them either and has threatened to sue if anyone does. This seems a little strange but it's the unfortunate reality of the situation. However, if you can get Marvin to agree, I would be more than happy to forward them on to you.

Also maybe if Fred Burton is listening, he might be able to influence Marvin in this area. Worth a try :)

Steve
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by SteveAlt »
 

Offline Shinanygnz

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« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2008, 05:20:21 PM »
Quote from: "Sotak246"

Now a cry for help.  I recentlly moved, and got a new computer, and  between the two somehow lost my copies of:
Interstellar War 4
Insurrection
Unified Technical Manual
Sky Marshal 2.

Anyone know where I can get them replaced since SDS doesn't sell them anymore?  I lost several other books/CDs to other games, but the Starfire ones are the ones I am most upset about.


Even though SDS doesn't sell them, they were all electronic things you had to buy from them, so Marvin should have records of this (in theory & depending on how long he has to keep this kind of stuff for US law), and I very much doubt he's deleted his master copies of the files.
Have you tried asking?
Stephen
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Shinanygnz »
 

Offline xtfoster

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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2008, 04:42:42 PM »
Quote from: "Shinanygnz"
Quote from: "Sotak246"

Now a cry for help.  I recentlly moved, and got a new computer, and  between the two somehow lost my copies of:
Interstellar War 4
Insurrection
Unified Technical Manual
Sky Marshal 2.

Anyone know where I can get them replaced since SDS doesn't sell them anymore?  I lost several other books/CDs to other games, but the Starfire ones are the ones I am most upset about.

Even though SDS doesn't sell them, they were all electronic things you had to buy from them, so Marvin should have records of this (in theory & depending on how long he has to keep this kind of stuff for US law), and I very much doubt he's deleted his master copies of the files.
Have you tried asking?
Stephen
Correct, I have never had a problem getting Marvin to send me replacement copies of any electronic media I have ordered from him. BUT, I haven't needed to since after the decision to only sell 4th Edition.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by xtfoster »
 

Offline Sotak246

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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2008, 12:35:52 PM »
I have tried the email address and phone number on the SDS site but got no responce to the email and the phone number is disconnected.  Anyone have a current way to contact him?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Sotak246 »
 

Offline Shinanygnz

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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2008, 02:22:55 PM »
Quote from: "Sotak246"
I have tried the email address and phone number on the SDS site but got no responce to the email and the phone number is disconnected.  Anyone have a current way to contact him?


These are the two email addresses I've seen Marvin use:
mrlamb [at] acd [dot] net
marvlamb [at] comcast [dot] net

The Starfire mailing list is very quiet these days, but I can ask there if neither of those two work.

Stephen
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Shinanygnz »
 

Offline Sotak246

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« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2008, 05:22:57 PM »
I have tried both emails and the mrlamb one comes back as undeliverable and the other one never gave me a answer either way.  If anyone knows another way to get in touch with him, I would appreciate the help.  I really would like to get those books replaced. They are the only collection, of mine,  with missing books that I am willing to go through all this trouble for.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Sotak246 »
 

Offline crucis

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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2008, 07:26:02 PM »
Sotak, I've tried contacting Marvin recently and got no replies back.  Perhaps he's on vacation or something.  Try to be patient.

BTW, Marvin's comcast Email address listed above is current to the best of my knowledge.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by crucis »
 

Offline bolfry

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Re: Starfire 3rd
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2009, 07:00:10 PM »
If anyone is willing to part with a copy of Imperial Starfire, please let me know.  I have some fellows here that want to learn to play and I thought I would start them with what I used to play prior to getting into something we all would be new to.
 

 

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