Author Topic: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?  (Read 101419 times)

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Offline Hazard

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1710 on: July 11, 2017, 04:44:03 PM »
And a supercarrier weighs in at about 100 000 tons.

However, something to keep in mind is that, certainly for the early game, 10k tons is huge. Research, raw materials and production capacity in the early game are very limited, which limits the ability to build big, and early game Aurora is very much like early steam navy developments. Sure, you might be able to conceptualise bigger, but do you have the ability to actually build, maintain and supply such ships? Especially when you start creating a far flung empire?
 

Offline boggo2300

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1711 on: July 11, 2017, 04:45:07 PM »
WW2 destroyers were between 1000 and 2500 tons displacement actually.

WW2 cruisers were between 2000 and 17200 tons displacement (those extremes are outliers the majority were around 10000)

WW2 battleships, between 14000 and 74170 (Yamato) with the average just over 22000, Iowas were 45000

WW2 carriers, varies between 7800 for Escort carriers, to 30800 for the Essex class.
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Offline I_Sicarius_I

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1712 on: July 12, 2017, 04:00:45 AM »
And a supercarrier weighs in at about 100 000 tons.

However, something to keep in mind is that, certainly for the early game, 10k tons is huge. Research, raw materials and production capacity in the early game are very limited, which limits the ability to build big, and early game Aurora is very much like early steam navy developments. Sure, you might be able to conceptualise bigger, but do you have the ability to actually build, maintain and supply such ships? Especially when you start creating a far flung empire?
Of course i cant maintain it. Im American ill build it anyways

Edit- 10k still isnt huge to me. In the early game everything i build is either a gunboat a corvette or a frigate until i can support large classes of ship. But i use a traditional(ish) class system because thats my style. Corvettes are usually under 8k depending on RP, Frigates under 15, destroyers under 25, cruisers under about 45(most versatile size group so alot of variation) and battleships under 75 anything over that is a dreadnought. Other classes vary depending on necessity.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 04:20:03 AM by I_Sicarius_I »
 

Offline I_Sicarius_I

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1713 on: July 12, 2017, 04:14:04 AM »
WW2 destroyers were between 1000 and 2500 tons displacement actually.

Correct, it appears i didnt go back far enough while checking.

WW2 cruisers were between 2000 and 17200 tons displacement (those extremes are outliers the majority were around 10000)

Also correct, unless you add battlecruisers in but they generally fall under battleship weights

WW2 battleships, between 14000 and 74170 (Yamato) with the average just over 22000, Iowas were 45000

Indeed. Although american ships generally run on the heavier side. And several british ones also. Including some of their battlecruisers

WW2 carriers, varies between 7800 for Escort carriers, to 30800 for the Essex class.

Sounds about right i havent really researched carriers as much.
 

Offline boggo2300

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1714 on: July 12, 2017, 04:54:42 PM »
Indeed. Although american ships generally run on the heavier side. And several british ones also. Including some of their battlecruisers

WW2 carriers, varies between 7800 for Escort carriers, to 30800 for the Essex class.

Sounds about right i havent really researched carriers as much.

Actually if you exclude the South American Battleships (which were almost all Dreadnoughts or Pre-Dreadnoughts (and dammit that's the correct spelling, it refers to a specific ship and that was it's name!!!!!) the average displacement of a Battleship was closer to 30000 tons.  The only Battlecruisers still in service by WW2 of greater than 30000tons were, HMS Renown and HMS Repulse at 32800tons and HMS Hood, displacing 47500 tons or thereabouts, and larger than all British Battleships! all the others were in the mid 30000 tons range (being the three Courageous class).  Battlecruisers were a first world war thing though and all of the remaining ones were quite old by 1939 (as were most Battleships that weren't German or Japanese I suppose).  HMS Vanguard was the only British battleship to exceed 40000 tons by the way, and that wasn't even completed until 1944
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Offline I_Sicarius_I

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1715 on: July 12, 2017, 06:17:51 PM »
Ship "classes" are a finicky thing haha. It all varied so much during the war and especially afterwards that its hard to pin down exact sizes for classes and roles. But i generally use ww2 and modern ship doctrine and classes to set sizes for my ships. Battleships went out because they make a much larger target. I feel in Aurora or must high "tech" games they make a comeback being that they can shoot back missiles the same size as the smaller vessels. But that gets you into costs/ viability per tonnage issues. I build my ships almost always for one purpose whatever it may be. Imo a smaller ship even of the same role wont pack the punch a larger even more specialised ship would be. Now you can add up 8 or 9 of the "average" aurora forum sized ships in the size of my cruisers or battleships. I honestly don't know how to effective one of my ships is vs anything because in my current game(only one that hasn't crashed) im about 108 years in just got outta sol the last 10 or so and i havent met any enemies thus far. But im under the impression a larger ship specifically designed for a purpose is more effective then several smallers on of the same role but "less effective" due to size restraints. Could be a repeat of history tho so i dunno.

Hope atleast some of that made sense lmao
 

Offline superstrijder15

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1716 on: July 13, 2017, 05:31:01 AM »
I lost half my fleet in the third attempt to destroy some precursors, my first ever opponent.  My missile boats can't keep up, but luckily my FAC can out run them and I got a ton of fuel.  And after half the fleet they ran out of missiles, which is nice as well.
 

Offline boggo2300

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1717 on: July 13, 2017, 05:21:57 PM »
The Battleships day was over even before the first world war,  Jutland was the final hurrah, and that basically had to be engineered to occur, after the age of sail, and with decreased reliance on port visits fleet encounters became something much harder to succeed at, because the enemies fleet didn't necessarily have to be in such a predictable place,  and without fleet actions battleships were just a huge resource sink, the extended detection and attack range was what brought on the rise of the carrier.

In Aurora terms, because travel between systems occurs at fixed locations your fleet movements have once again become predictable which again gives an opportunity for battlewagons to become useful.

Thanks for your post, because I'd never really put any thought into what and why and now I have I'm percolating an idea for a new doctrine for Aurora involving Direct fire vessels for warp assault and defence and carriers for in system control
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Offline I_Sicarius_I

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1718 on: July 14, 2017, 05:07:30 AM »
Haha awesome. I try to use a ton of different strategies and philosophies when it comes to fleet compostion. And thats actually mainly what i use my larger ships for. They are used mainly for assaults into enemy territory. Also i built an experimental 40kt crusier. Had a couple size 15 launchers
Guass and ciws AMD and 2 40cm twin turret main guns with a range of 1.4mks and 6 40cm plasma broadside guns(almost always on my ships because i over engineer everything i think). I put it up against 5 9kt corvettes with AMMs, typical size 8 launchers and a 10cm laser turret. I did this as a test.
 The starting range was about 20mks with both fleets heading toward each other. The BC launched all itd ASMs(size 15, 300wh and 100kkms) at this range. Unfortunately for whatever reason the corvettes wouldnt reload their box* launchers so they launched only one volley per ship so about 30 missiles(size 8, 9wh and 220k-ish kms)
The BC took about 17 of the missiles to the shields and armor losing only a crew berth. The Corvettes AMMs downed everyone of the BCs 46 missiles.
So the range decreased down to 800k kms at this range the BCs main battery could only drop the shields on one of the corvettes at a time. Being that one usually missed.
Now at this*  point it should be noted that the corvettes are faster and could easily of high tailed it home being that thier main ASMs wouldnt fire. But being that each had approx 300 AMMs I decided to launch those at the BC but forgot to tell them to stop moving. As the range decreased the BC got more and more accurate and at about 700k kms  it became quite accurate and its secondary 20cms could open up. Once the range decreased to 400-500k kms the BC was destroying one every 10 seconds. After losing 3 corvettes i retreated them and the BCs lasers couldnt recharge fast enough to kill them thru the shields.
What i learned from this. It would take a helluva lot of 9wh missiles to destroy the BC and if you get anything under 600k kms it will destroy almost anything. Thats super short range in spce terms but it has the armor and shields plus PD to survive the closure(against smaller ships designed for the same purpose as it). mass volleys of AMMs are also ineffective against it being as it only lost about half armor.
Do with this information what you will.

Edit- damn iphone
Also note my designs are not perfect but used highest tech
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 05:15:01 AM by I_Sicarius_I »
 

Offline Detros

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1719 on: July 14, 2017, 05:15:03 AM »
@I_Sicarius_I: Will you show us the design, for BC at least? How long is your game that you got to nearly max range BFC? Or have you SMed it?
 

Offline I_Sicarius_I

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1720 on: July 14, 2017, 05:16:16 AM »
When i get off work sure. And its about 110 years in. But i SMed the corvettes and their respective empire and tech.
 

Offline Lamandier

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1721 on: July 14, 2017, 12:11:41 PM »
In my high tech games, I usually stick to the following base classifications/tonnage ranges:

Escort: 4-6 kT
Destroyer: 6-10 kT
'Heavy' destroyer: 10-16 kT
Cruiser: 16-30 kT
Battlecruiser: 30-40 kT
Dreadnought: 40-60 kT
Superdreadnought: 60 kT+

Though as the game progresses, sometimes tonnage creep starts to blur the lines a bit. Plus I do take role into account as well as size when choosing a type for a new class. So it's not always completely uniform. Which actually makes sense from a realism perspective, IMO.

My current game is a conventional start about 15 years in, though, so even a 4kT escort from my last game would be a battlewagon compared to the ships the three Earth-based powers(NATO, CIS, and China) are currently fielding. NATO's shipyard just launched its first true warship, a hybrid conventional/TN tech 2000 ton 'monitor', with the Chinese and Russians about to follow suit with similar ships of their own. All three powers have 4-5 kT designs on the drawing board, but none of them even have shipyards capable of building those designs yet. Most of the armed vessels in service are missile-armed shuttles/scouts of around 500 tons or so(though the Russians also have a couple gauss-armed shuttles in service).
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 02:18:11 PM by Lamandier »
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Offline I_Sicarius_I

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1722 on: July 14, 2017, 02:27:54 PM »
In my high tech games, I usually stick to the following base classifications/tonnage ranges:

Escort: 4-6 kT
Destroyer: 6-10 kT
'Heavy' destroyer: 10-16 kT
Cruiser: 16-30 kT
Battlecruiser: 30-40 kT
Dreadnought: 40-60 kT
Superdreadnought: 60 kT+

Though as the game progresses, sometimes tonnage creep starts to blur the lines a bit. Plus I do take role into account as well as size when choosing a type for a new class. So it's not always completely uniform. Which actually makes sense from a realism perspective, IMO.

My current game is a conventional start about 15 years in, though, so even a 4kT escort from my last game would be a battlewagon compared to the ships the three Earth-based powers(NATO, CIS, and China) are currently fielding. NATO's shipyard just launched its first true warship, a hybrid conventional/TN tech 2000 ton 'monitor', with the Chinese and Russians about to follow suit with similar ships of their own. All three powers have 4-5 kT designs on the drawing board, but none of them even have shipyards capable of building those designs yet. Most of the armed vessels in service are missile-armed shuttles/scouts of around 500 tons or so(though the Russians also have a couple gauss-armed shuttles in service).

My weights are heavier but the role and armament makes a big difference in class also. a 30k ship with corvette armament will probably be classed as an DE or well basically worthless.

Also the Prototype Cruiser
Off-Topic: show
Sigma class Cruiser    40,000 tons     935 Crew     63826.35 BP      TCS 800  TH 15000  EM 3600
18750 km/s     Armour 25-104     Shields 120-300     Sensors 75/75/0/0     Damage Control Rating 155     PPV 259.18
Maint Life 0.2 Years     MSP 4986    AFR 2560%    IFR 35.6%    1YR 25144    5YR 377154    Max Repair 31500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 72 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 695   

Orth-Tokarski Dynamics 2500 EP Commercial Photonic Drive (6)    Power 2500    Fuel Use 0.88%    Signature 2500    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 511.4 billion km   (315 days at full power)
Adams-Briggs Omega R300/360 Shields (8)   Total Fuel Cost  120 Litres per hour  (2,880 per day)

Single 20cm Laser Turret (4x1)    Range 1,200,000km     TS: 100000 km/s     Power 10-6     RM 12    ROF 10        10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
Twin 40cm Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 1,400,000km     TS: 100000 km/s     Power 84-12     RM 12    ROF 35        42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42
Acothley Weapon Systems 40cm C25 Plasma Carronade (4)    Range 400,000km     TS: 25000 km/s     Power 40-25     RM 1    ROF 10        40 20 13 10 8 6 5 5 4 4
Vandis-Curze Prototype 10000r700 EFC (1)    Max Range: 1,400,000 km   TS: 100000 km/s     99 99 98 97 96 96 95 94 94 93
Thompson International Fire Control S00.5 175-25000 H10 (2)    Max Range: 350,000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71
Rowe-Duffy Aeronautical Vacuum Energy Power Plant Technology PB-1.25 (3)     Total Power Output 150    Armour 0    Exp 20%

Wood & Patterson Size 15 Missile Launcher (8)    Missile Size 15    Rate of Fire 40
Thompson International Missile Fire Control FC9056-R500 (10%) (2)     Range 9,056.1m km    Resolution 500
Thompson International Missile Fire Control FC5727-R200 (10%) (2)     Range 5,727.5m km    Resolution 200
Harpoon S15 (46)  Speed: 100,000 km/s   End: 56.5m    Range: 339m km   WH: 300    Size: 15    TH: 766/460/230

Thompson International Active Search Sensor MR1909-R200 (10%) (1)     GPS 36000     Range 1,909.2m km    Resolution 200
Thompson International Active Search Sensor MR135-R1 (1)     GPS 180     Range 135.0m km    MCR 14.7m km    Resolution 1
Thompson International Thermal Sensor TH1-75 (10%) (1)     Sensitivity 75     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km
Thompson International EM Detection Sensor EM1-75 (10%) (1)     Sensitivity 75     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

Compact ECCM-10 (6)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 

Offline TheBawkHawk

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1723 on: July 16, 2017, 01:31:32 AM »
So I've got an NPR near one of my important colonies out on the fringe of my space, and since I don't want my expensive goodies being turned to glass, I've been blockading the jump point with one of my fleets and a minefield while my other fleets make their way there or are assembled and trained. It's been this way for a few years, as I've been waiting for my new battleships to roll out to start the invasion. Just a while ago the turns started being interrupted by something, my guess was that the NPR had found someone to shoot in the meantime. As my fleets were heading to invade the system, I get a notification. One of their ships has been detected on the fringe of Proxima Centauri, home to my largest extrasolar colony. I realized that those interrupts were almost certainly from the ship detecting my civilian traffic transiting the jump points.

So there are three possibilities, in increasing order of how much it scares me.
1. A ship slipped past me before I could set up defences at the jump point.
2. A ship managed to jump past my defences without me noticing.
3. Theres a dormant jump point leading from their space directly into my core worlds.

I had set up the blockade within a few days of first contact, so 1 is pretty unlikely. I also had the entire system under constant sensor coverage, and a minefield at a 1.5m km radius from the jump point should have taken out any ships that jumped in, so 2 is unlikely as well. That leaves only number 3, the scariest of the bunch. The NPR now has a jump point directly into my core worlds, and I don't know where the jump point is, so I can't blockade it. At least, that's what I thought at first.

The ship detected is a geosurvey ship that I've encountered before. I know its speed, its bearing, and approximately how long it has been travelling if I go under the assumption that it immediately went straight for the inner system upon entering the system. Using these I can get a rough estimate of where the ship came from, and I can send a detachment to investigate.

Aurora is such a fantastic game. I can't think of any other game I've played that gives this kind of fun.
 
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Offline Detros

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Re: What's going on in your empire/planet/battlefield?
« Reply #1724 on: July 16, 2017, 05:28:02 AM »
Aurora is such a fantastic game. I can't think of any other game I've played that gives this kind of fun.
What about the burning !!FUN!! of Dwarf Fortress where one mistakenly mined tile during reservoir construction can lead to massive flooding of the entire fort and deaths of most of its inhabitants?
 

 

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