Author Topic: Solarian Empires - Part 11  (Read 7985 times)

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Offline Sematary

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2014, 02:44:56 PM »
Well in the story it makes sense why they can keep building. The shipyards are well defended by PDCs that keep enemy ships quite a ways out and on top of that the crews in the shipyards know that their ability to pump out ships is the only thing keeping them from being destroyed as a race.
 

Offline xeryon

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2014, 04:11:19 PM »
Correct.  In this specific instance enemy ships are not in orbit.
 

Offline Wolfius

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2014, 12:47:14 AM »
I understand.  There is always a gameplay balance issue to maintain as well as ROI in programming effort.  Your current campaign just seems to highlight a pretty large gap in strategy gaming logic.

It just seems illogical to me that something so monumental as building a 10000+ ton spacecraft can occur with an enemy staring at the assembly line and everyone just goes on about their business; having their management meetings, drinking a cup of coffee, maybe checking the Aurora forums instead of doing their reports?   ;D

He has the option of shooting at the shipyards. He's choosen not to exercise that option.

If he could park ships in orbit he could also yoink the shipyards with a tug.

I don't see the problem. Additional options might be nice, but Aurora's got it's bases covered here.


Besides, boarding actions opens a bit of a potential can of worms; shipyards employ millions of people on the planet, there's certainly going to be alot of surface to space traffic, and transport capacity. So why couldn't a shipyard in orbit be defended - or attacked by - ground troops from the surface? And if so, how would that work? Yes, yes, 'if you control the orbitals you can (try to) shoot down any shuttles ferrying troops up'(maybe expose the troops to hostile point-defence fire for a short time?), but what if the boarder can't hold the orbitals? You could end up with an awkward situation where the enemy captured your shipyards before reinforcments drove them off, and if you don't have any surviving troop ships, you.. what? Have to build a whole new shipyard to build a troopship to board your own shipyard in orbit of your homeworld?
 

Offline Mel Vixen

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2014, 06:40:50 AM »
I think it could be worth it to unifie shipyards and orbital habitats. Both are orbital planetlinked constructions.
In my mind it would also make sense to increase the size of a Habitat like a Shipyard while a unification would give the Shipyard a chance to be boarded.

The sheer size of both constructs would make them civilian only ... i am not entriely sure though how to solve it database wise, since i dont know how the DB looks internally.  Also Steve would have to tackle some size-related overflow bugs.
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Offline xeryon

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2014, 12:03:23 PM »
Besides, boarding actions opens a bit of a potential can of worms; shipyards employ millions of people on the planet, there's certainly going to be alot of surface to space traffic, and transport capacity. So why couldn't a shipyard in orbit be defended - or attacked by - ground troops from the surface? And if so, how would that work? Yes, yes, 'if you control the orbitals you can (try to) shoot down any shuttles ferrying troops up'(maybe expose the troops to hostile point-defence fire for a short time?), but what if the boarder can't hold the orbitals? You could end up with an awkward situation where the enemy captured your shipyards before reinforcments drove them off, and if you don't have any surviving troop ships, you.. what? Have to build a whole new shipyard to build a troopship to board your own shipyard in orbit of your homeworld?

Complexities like these are why we have this dialog.  Just because I think it would be a good idea doesn't mean it could or should happen.  This is also why I think consideration for enemy fleet in orbit just halting production would be an option.  No ownership of facilities changes hands.  Construction factories can build armed PDCs to support a resistance.  As soon as enemy fleet leaves orbit construction resumes.  Just my idea on the concept.
 

Offline boggo2300

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2014, 04:39:55 PM »
I definitely think the enemy fleet slowing/stopping construction deserves to be in the suggestion thread.

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« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 04:45:10 PM by boggo2300 »
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Offline Wolfius

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2014, 05:14:08 PM »
I think it could be worth it to unifie shipyards and orbital habitats. Both are orbital planetlinked constructions.
In my mind it would also make sense to increase the size of a Habitat like a Shipyard while a unification would give the Shipyard a chance to be boarded.

The sheer size of both constructs would make them civilian only ... i am not entriely sure though how to solve it database wise, since i dont know how the DB looks internally.  Also Steve would have to tackle some size-related overflow bugs.

Orbital habitats can be boarded now because they're ships and for the most part operate by ship mechanics.

They also aren't always civilian. Especially if you're playing with maintaince failures turned off.

I like existing orbital hab mechanics and would be entirely against such a change. You're just taking things away from the player.

Complexities like these are why we have this dialog.  Just because I think it would be a good idea doesn't mean it could or should happen.  This is also why I think consideration for enemy fleet in orbit just halting production would be an option.  No ownership of facilities changes hands.  Construction factories can build armed PDCs to support a resistance.  As soon as enemy fleet leaves orbit construction resumes.  Just my idea on the concept.

Better, tho it would have to be tied to being clearly hostile. Having to start a war with an NPR because they parked a ship in orbit and it was stopping you from constructing ships would be really annoying.

Maybe an Interdict Shipyard order for armed ships?

Still seems a bit complicated when you can acomplish the same thing with a tractor beam should you be able to get into orbit.
 

Offline ExChairman

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2014, 12:59:23 AM »
Still seems a bit complicated when you can acomplish the same thing with a tractor beam should you be able to get into orbit.

Nice we got a fine shipyard...
Sir there is a battleship emerging from the shipyard... ;D
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Offline Mel Vixen

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2014, 03:49:38 PM »
Orbital habitats can be boarded now because they're ships and for the most part operate by ship mechanics.

They also aren't always civilian. Especially if you're playing with maintaince failures turned off.

I like existing orbital hab mechanics and would be entirely against such a change. You're just taking things away from the player.


I think you missundertstood me here, i am sorry if i wasnt clear. I would like to have a merge that allows the shipyards to count as ships/components just like habs do while the habs get the option to expand much like shipyards can.
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Offline Nathan_

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2014, 06:09:00 PM »
Well in the story it makes sense why they can keep building. The shipyards are well defended by PDCs that keep enemy ships quite a ways out and on top of that the crews in the shipyards know that their ability to pump out ships is the only thing keeping them from being destroyed as a race.

The only thing they are doing wrong is continuing to send them out piecemeal.
 

Offline ZimRathbone

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2014, 09:38:21 PM »
I think you missundertstood me here, i am sorry if i wasnt clear. I would like to have a merge that allows the shipyards to count as ships/components just like habs do while the habs get the option to expand much like shipyards can.

As i recall, (and this WAS quite a while ago)  there was a design decision NOT to make shipyards into ship components.   The reasoning behind it was that the shipyard represented a large number of ground based manufacturing sources (as the supply line) and a space based assembly facility, and therefore not able to be installed on a unit.  In fact originally it was not possible to move shipyards by any means - once they were built on a planet they stayed there forever.

The gameplay reason was to restrict the use of the mobile shipyard due to some issues that Steve noticed in the Latter Days of the Rigellian Empire (Starfire Assistant), where you had fleets of SD's with full size shipyards wandering around and quickly creating massive fixed fortifications at border warp points, causing siege/attrition type engagements that he wasn't enjoying.  Much of the design decisions on Aurora were on the basis of creating a game Steve wants to play.
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Offline Griswel

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2014, 02:19:02 PM »
Thought I' stop lurking.  Great update, thanks, and successful test on boarding.  Highly profitable.
 

Offline ShadoCat

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2014, 07:17:16 PM »
What gets me is where does the planet get all of the resources needed to build the ships.

Offline Beersatron

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Re: Solarian Empires - Part 11
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2014, 11:00:17 AM »
What gets me is where does the planet get all of the resources needed to build the ships.


I think I remember Steve stating that he increased NPC home world minerals recently, also any mining colonies they had before all the fighting 'instantly' transfer the minerals by magic so maybe they had a stockpile before all the excrement hit the fan and they started to loose their colonies?