Author Topic: Stellaris coming soon  (Read 4440 times)

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Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2016, 12:57:49 PM »

Imagine seeing a pacman clone on steam, and it's feature list went like this:

* Deep & Varied levels with infinite procedular generation
* A new experience every time you start the game
* Multiple endings
* 48 hour long story
* Innovative "Eat or be Eaten" system

How would you feel?

I'd take issue with the "innovative" part of the Eat or be Eaten system. ;)
 

Offline Vandermeer

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2016, 04:11:04 PM »
Now, I am not saying the game will be bad. Whether I like it or not, does not mean that on a technical level the game is bad. I just dislike their feature list, and what they claim their game has.

Imagine seeing a pacman clone on steam, and it's feature list went like this:

* Deep & Varied levels with infinite procedular generation
* A new experience every time you start the game
* Multiple endings
* 48 hour long story
* Innovative "Eat or be Eaten" system

How would you feel?
Thanks, Thanatos. That cleared up the misgivings I have been having myself. Such flashbang advertising tactics are always a bad sign, so no wonder one grows wary.
playing Aurora as swarm fleet: Zen Nomadic Hive Fantasy
 

Offline Thanatos

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2016, 04:30:26 PM »
I'd take issue with the "innovative" part of the Eat or be Eaten system. ;)

But it's true. Almost every game on steam has 'innovative' something or other. And indeed, some things that are a rehash of 3 decade old mechanics can feel innovative. Like, Bastion for example. In my opinion, the narration was innovative. I am sure it was done before, and the concept of narration is about as innovative as a hammer to the back of the head. But the moment you start the story, and you press a key, and the narrator goes 'The kid stands up' you know you are in for something special.

Well, anyway, that's it for me, and my opinion on Stellaris and the market in today's age. I am not a saint, if I made a game, I would do the same thing. Though, that may not be so true, because I am a perfectionist, and I do have a few games under my belt, but I try my damnedest to really be innovative, and deliver what I promise to deliver.

At the end of the day, for a company, their #1 priority is not to make a game that is unique and amazing, but to reach a wide audience and to make their fans happy. Simple is sometimes best, but lately, in the past decade, it just feels like devs are intentionally skipping out on things, and bloating purdy grafeeks in exchange for interesting content.

And lastly, I should have started with a disclaimer that I don't like 99% of today's games. I am like the Zero Punctuation of reviews. I never have nice things to say, and on the extremely rare occasion that I do, it is fanatic love.
 

Offline boggo2300

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2016, 04:54:18 PM »
I am an actual programmer too, you know. This isn't so hard. Instead of actual code where I tell a few pixels to light up, allow me to direct you to something spectacular.

https://github.com/Mindwerks/worldengine

Now that is impressive.

Paul: A few games actually did 3D space, and it had some interesting consequences. One of the major gripes I heard about Stellaris was, if the space is 2D, you can get locked in, IE surrounded by non-hostile non-beatable races. It is fairly simple to code up what Stellaris, SEI-V, Aurora and Starfire did. But it's not magic, and not worth the 'deep & varied' or whatever they are claiming it to be. I mean, when we get right down to it, I guess it IS varied. But really, is it really that special? Chess too has varied tiles, you know. It's like saying the user interface is a feature.

Races being varied... well, a lot of games have this. Some different text, different internal values that control behavior. Heck, Aurora has this when you select the government type.

Now, I am not saying the game will be bad. Whether I like it or not, does not mean that on a technical level the game is bad. I just dislike their feature list, and what they claim their game has.

Imagine seeing a pacman clone on steam, and it's feature list went like this:

* Deep & Varied levels with infinite procedular generation
* A new experience every time you start the game
* Multiple endings
* 48 hour long story
* Innovative "Eat or be Eaten" system

How would you feel?

The galaxy in Stellaris is definitely 3d,  and since at least 1 of the hyperspace drives (of the 4 systems, well ok 3 systems and sublight only) available in the game allow you to go to any system from any other system with travel time being the drawback I don't see how that complaint is valid.  The Deep and varied is in relation to the makeup of the individual star systems which are way more varied from what I've seen than anything MOO or SE ever gave,  it's more saying our galaxy generation isn't as lame as MOO's.

and well, that a pretty accurate feature description for Pac-Man,  except the Mazes were set in Pac-Man  so I'd think wow,  Pac-Man with random mazes!  though Multiple Endings is pushing it,  Pac-Man only has one ending when you're eaten...

edit sigh typo,  it definitely IS a 3d galaxy
edit 2 sigh,  now I'm not so sure the Galaxy is 3d,  though I can't see what difference that would make in being blocked in by another empire tbh
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 04:38:59 PM by boggo2300 »
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Offline jem

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2016, 06:54:18 PM »
*Stuff that is not code*

So you cant spend two/five minutes to prove your point and link to someone else's work? What kind of programmer are you?

I am not a saint, if I made a game, I would do the same thing.
I am a game designer...

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Offline Thanatos

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2016, 10:50:30 PM »
EDIT: Nevermind. I don't really care anymore. Good job, Jem. Thanks buddy.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 11:07:23 PM by Thanatos »
 

Offline Paul M

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2016, 01:56:58 AM »

Paul: A few games actually did 3D space, and it had some interesting consequences. One of the major gripes I heard about Stellaris was, if the space is 2D, you can get locked in, IE surrounded by non-hostile non-beatable races. It is fairly simple to code up what Stellaris, SEI-V, Aurora and Starfire did. But it's not magic, and not worth the 'deep & varied' or whatever they are claiming it to be. I mean, when we get right down to it, I guess it IS varied. But really, is it really that special? Chess too has varied tiles, you know. It's like saying the user interface is a feature.

Races being varied... well, a lot of games have this. Some different text, different internal values that control behavior. Heck, Aurora has this when you select the government type.

Now, I am not saying the game will be bad. Whether I like it or not, does not mean that on a technical level the game is bad. I just dislike their feature list, and what they claim their game has.


My comments are based on watching either 8 or 10 hours of gameplay on twitch, reading all 30 or so designer diaries and reading the wiki pages.  Are you basing yours on advertising?  Advertising is intended to sell the game nothing more and nothing less.

Compared to any other space game I've seen and I admit I've not seen them all I don't think they are unjustified in what they say in the first 3 points.  If it is deep is a good question...but they have the biggest galaxy map I've ever seen, each system is detailed, there are anomalies (many based on how many they didn't explore), your science ship and its leader are key to exploiting the universe (but there are risks), there are space creatures, mysteries, quests based on anomalies.  I think this part should be fun...I'll only know when I have the game though.  But it certainly has the potential to be more interesting then exploration in most games...except for Fading Suns but there was a small universe of 20-30 worlds that were always the same.

Based on the Blorg diplomacy looks good...the AI created "The Just League" when the blorg gobbled up one of their neighbors as the Blorg's other neighbors got a bit worried.  Then there was other diplomatic maneuvering.  Getting boxed in can happen in any game, and in this one if it happens you can rival and insult them until the "non-hostile" is no longer an issue.  If you mean you end up between 3 fallen empires then I'd suggest "new game."   A war between the blorg and a fallen empire lasted all of 5 min real time....and most of that was the fallen empires fleets travel time.

As for races yes other games have different races but Stellaris has more than most.  And there seems to be an effort to make them behave according to their ethos.  I'm not sure in the least that any race in Endless Space plays the way the game text describes them.  In Aurora I can't say; the NCN has encountered only the wolver infestation...if a peaceful trader in Aurora is different then the warmongering Klingons I have no idea.  There doesn't seem to be a difference between having the pilgrams on your border or the Sheridan or the sowers in endless space. 

I understand personal objections that others may not find objectionable.  For me in Rome it was that Macedonian army in a place that at the time Macedon didn't even know existed and no army at that time could be so far in hostile territory.  Or even the far more vague reasons HoI3 never "resontated" with me even though I played 1 and 2 for huge amounts of time.  Or why I didn't like Starfire 4th edition or better put liked some parts of it and not at all others.  Taste is personal at the end of day.

I've pre-ordered as I like what I've seen on twitch/development diaries/wiki not because of the game advertising.  Based on what I have seen their advertising is at least "realistic" in that it reflects what the game should deliever.  We shall all have to see...but if the game is good past a week of playing...that only time will tell.
 

Offline Mastik

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2016, 09:25:53 AM »
There are some stellaris game play videos appearing on you tube.
 

Offline boggo2300

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2016, 04:42:25 PM »
My comments are based on watching either 8 or 10 hours of gameplay on twitch, reading all 30 or so designer diaries and reading the wiki pages.  Are you basing yours on advertising?  Advertising is intended to sell the game nothing more and nothing less.

Compared to any other space game I've seen and I admit I've not seen them all I don't think they are unjustified in what they say in the first 3 points.  If it is deep is a good question...but they have the biggest galaxy map I've ever seen, each system is detailed, there are anomalies (many based on how many they didn't explore), your science ship and its leader are key to exploiting the universe (but there are risks), there are space creatures, mysteries, quests based on anomalies.  I think this part should be fun...I'll only know when I have the game though.  But it certainly has the potential to be more interesting then exploration in most games...except for Fading Suns but there was a small universe of 20-30 worlds that were always the same.

Based on the Blorg diplomacy looks good...the AI created "The Just League" when the blorg gobbled up one of their neighbors as the Blorg's other neighbors got a bit worried.  Then there was other diplomatic maneuvering.  Getting boxed in can happen in any game, and in this one if it happens you can rival and insult them until the "non-hostile" is no longer an issue.  If you mean you end up between 3 fallen empires then I'd suggest "new game."   A war between the blorg and a fallen empire lasted all of 5 min real time....and most of that was the fallen empires fleets travel time.

As for races yes other games have different races but Stellaris has more than most.  And there seems to be an effort to make them behave according to their ethos.  I'm not sure in the least that any race in Endless Space plays the way the game text describes them.  In Aurora I can't say; the NCN has encountered only the wolver infestation...if a peaceful trader in Aurora is different then the warmongering Klingons I have no idea.  There doesn't seem to be a difference between having the pilgrams on your border or the Sheridan or the sowers in endless space. 

I understand personal objections that others may not find objectionable.  For me in Rome it was that Macedonian army in a place that at the time Macedon didn't even know existed and no army at that time could be so far in hostile territory.  Or even the far more vague reasons HoI3 never "resontated" with me even though I played 1 and 2 for huge amounts of time.  Or why I didn't like Starfire 4th edition or better put liked some parts of it and not at all others.  Taste is personal at the end of day.

I've pre-ordered as I like what I've seen on twitch/development diaries/wiki not because of the game advertising.  Based on what I have seen their advertising is at least "realistic" in that it reflects what the game should deliever.  We shall all have to see...but if the game is good past a week of playing...that only time will tell.

Stop saying what I'm thinking,  it's getting creepy!
The boggosity of the universe tends towards maximum.
 

Offline Starslayer_D

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2016, 02:10:44 AM »
Ok, downloaded yesterday, started playing a tutorial game.. 6 hours later at 2:00 am reluctantly tore myself from the PC.
Still indiscovery phase, created my first colony just before log-out. Researching colony ship was slowed down as I met so many organic riddles my social research was constantly interupted. But oh boy... ancient minder drones, ancient extragalactic railgun shots missing my ship, gas clod entities, space whales, crystal entities, precursor empires you caan reseach, space amoebas (killing them and then invstigating the wreckage gives nie new tech and research boosts).

There is so much to do.. so hard to say which decissions are positive and not...each of the events can lead to an event chain or new research etc. its just wow! WOW!

I am not sure how multiplayer will work out, as its definitely slower that say.. Endless Legend, but the game is rich.. very rich, and can keep you busier than a dog chassing his tail.
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2016, 08:36:41 AM »
Ok, downloaded yesterday, started playing a tutorial game.. 6 hours later at 2:00 am reluctantly tore myself from the PC.
Still indiscovery phase, created my first colony just before log-out. Researching colony ship was slowed down as I met so many organic riddles my social research was constantly interupted. But oh boy... ancient minder drones, ancient extragalactic railgun shots missing my ship, gas clod entities, space whales, crystal entities, precursor empires you caan reseach, space amoebas (killing them and then invstigating the wreckage gives nie new tech and research boosts).

There is so much to do.. so hard to say which decissions are positive and not...each of the events can lead to an event chain or new research etc. its just wow! WOW!

I am not sure how multiplayer will work out, as its definitely slower that say.. Endless Legend, but the game is rich.. very rich, and can keep you busier than a dog chassing his tail.

Research the crystal entities too. I've gotten 2 techs from space critters. And I've got 2 more that I'm collecting info on. Could research, but 2000+ months, nah. DIE space slug! Gimma techs!
 

Offline boggo2300

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2016, 04:54:42 PM »
So far I've managed to destroy a Pirate fleet (and salvage the wrecks!) destroy before mentioned pirates Asteroid base (and salvage the wreckage,  hmm there seems to be a pattern!) get a non-aggression pact with my nearest neighbor,  Chased down prime mining spots figured out by researching ancient robotic asteroid mining drones, set up an observation station over a low tech alien homeworld,  but failed to stop smugglers importing modern weapons to them,  so then I dropped an army on them and conquered them, now I've packed them all off to reservations, I think my Empire (well it's actually an indirect democracy) just took a turn to the dark side.
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Offline Thanatos

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2016, 11:59:51 AM »
This game is bad. It is really, really bad. I played it for like 40 hours or something, and I literally physically cannot play it any longer, after seeing my federation member try to merge a federation fleet, with a non-federation fleet, ad infinitum. This cannot be done.

There are so many holes in this game, I am gonna start calling it 'swiss cheese' instead of Stellaris.

The diplomacy system is worse than galciv's which it ripped off.

Space battles are worse than even... I don't even know. Tetris?

No random events. Anomalies are pretty much all similar and there's like... 6 different ones.

The galaxy is ... eh, not really big, but not really small either.

Why the hell does something have to be inside my influence sphere before I can put mines and stuff on it? Didn't galciv do the same thing? That's the stupidest mechanic ever.

If you are going to make me spend influence to build specific stuff, then make me spend influence for building everything, otherwise it makes no sense. What, I have to bribe some dude to build a fleet academy? What the blyat?

You can get boxed in. I got boxed in. But the AI is too stupid to understand this, and won't attack my weakling allies.

The AI will never give you military access or research agreement.

Research is dumb. At best you can pick out of 4, and the late-game ones are so expensive it takes a billion years to complete them.

The game is horribly optimized, but at least it doesn't crash.

What is the point of the heir system, if I can't change my damn heir? Like, there's literally no point to it.

Alliances suck. They all have to like what you are doing and vote yes, but are too mentally retarded to understand the benefits of starting wars or inviting others into the alliance.

Federations are even worse. Everyone takes turns being the leader, and then horribly fail when they try to merge federation fleets with non-federation fleets.

The Warscore system. Oh god. Epic fail. Stupider than ever before. And if you hit 'suggest demands' your allies all start picking crap, that puts the Warscore above 100, which cannot be done. And even when you satisfy all your allies, so they vote yes, you end up being able to maybe get one planet. And then you have to wait 10 years before you can get another one. Really?

Thanks, Paradox. You are still as bad as ever.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 12:02:08 PM by Thanatos »
 

Offline boggo2300

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2016, 04:49:24 PM »
The AI will never give you military access or research agreement.

yes it will,  it offered me both last night
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Offline boggo2300

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Re: Stellaris coming soon
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2016, 04:57:41 PM »
OK, so last night I set up another Observation station over a primitive pop, and used the "Infiltration" setting on it,  which surgically alters some of your people to infiltrate and influence their society,  ultimately getting themselves into positions of power and manipulating the aliens into joining your empire,  it was strangely satisfying!

unfortunately a few years after that, one of my neighbors declared war on me, and now has 2 3000 strength fleets roaming my space blowing up installations (I've built my fleet up as mean and as large as I currently can and am only at 1500 strength)  stupid aliens!
The boggosity of the universe tends towards maximum.
 

 

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