Author Topic: Newtonian Pulsar  (Read 2705 times)

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Offline SwordLord10

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Newtonian Pulsar
« on: April 22, 2016, 08:51:24 AM »
This may just be me, but I was quite excited to hear about Newtonian Aurora, and it has been on hold for a while, which disappoints me. I saw that this game was toying with Newtonian ships, and I think that this game would benefit from making the Newtonian version now, which would draw support from new players(easier to learn), and from the niche of aurora players who want the most realistic experience(me)
Aurora II should only use jump gates and fleet jumpships
http://www.popsci.com/article/technology/will-wormhole-travel-ever-be-possible
 

Offline Hamof

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2016, 09:04:06 AM »
Quote from: SwordLord10 link=topic=8583. msg90107#msg90107 date=1461333084
This may just be me, but I was quite excited to hear about Newtonian Aurora, and it has been on hold for a while, which disappoints me.  I saw that this game was toying with Newtonian ships, and I think that this game would benefit from making the Newtonian version now, which would draw support from new players(easier to learn), and from the niche of aurora players who want the most realistic experience(me)

This sounds like something for later, when this game isn't still in early-development.
 

Offline SwordLord10

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2016, 10:00:23 AM »
This sounds like something for later, when this game isn't still in early-development.
I know that is probably how it will be done, but I can dream
Aurora II should only use jump gates and fleet jumpships
http://www.popsci.com/article/technology/will-wormhole-travel-ever-be-possible
 

Offline Nathan_

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2016, 02:35:20 PM »
Newtonian has been shelved for a long time, and will almost certainly never be done. As far as being easier to learn, I very much doubt that, the current model of using brute engine force to get to some place interesting is vastly simpler than having to do math for every ship. If you're interested though, there are several games like IFH, KSP, and what have you that do make an effort to have realistic physics for ships.
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2016, 05:50:16 PM »
Meanwhile whenever I mod non Newtonian engines into KSP everything just explodes from g forces. Need to find some way to mod out those pesky laws of physics.
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
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Offline exdeathbr

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 12:59:55 PM »
If someone want to know the rules that newtonian aurora would have, check here.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=4329.0
 

Offline se5a

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2016, 05:16:58 PM »
I would love to do newtonian pulsar, unfortunately is *really hard* to do right, and right now we have to triage.
Maybe after we've got some shooty things and something that could be considered a 'game', I'll look at it again.
 

Offline alex_brunius

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 10:09:54 AM »
I guess I am the only one that want to see a hybrid game where both Newtonian and trans-Newtonian propulsion is available?

That would give a whole new meaning to "conventional start"...  :) 

( and could be balanced so things that are not as time/speed critical is often much cheaper/efficient to transport the old fashion way during all the lower tech levels of the game )
 

Offline sublight

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2016, 03:04:09 PM »
I've continued to poke around with Newtonian models ever since system incompatibilities forced me out of active Pulsar development.

Tracking Newtonian motion is easy enough. The tricky part is supporting 'Plot Interception' commands. The only two ways I can find to work that out are to either use brute force iterations or else to simply the problem by ignoring gravity.
 

Offline se5a

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2016, 05:14:29 AM »
...ever since system incompatibilities forced me out of active Pulsar development.

What system incompatibilities? openGL? the version in the crossplatform branch does not currently use openGL, instead it uses eto.forms version of canvas. similar to how aurora does it.
 
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Offline sublight

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2016, 07:59:23 AM »
What system incompatibilities? openGL? the version in the crossplatform branch does not currently use openGL, instead it uses eto.forms version of canvas. similar to how aurora does it.

Basically. I also discovered a few undocumented WinForm/OSX incompatibilities, but OpenGL was the real deal breaker. In theory my hardware supported the minimum version used by Pulsar but there were problems in practice. For a while I tried to independently develop a GTK/Cairo user interface but I never did get the graphics side of that project to work properly.

Glad to hear about crossplatform progress. It sounds like I may need to try jumping back in.  :)
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 08:10:35 AM by sublight »
 

Offline se5a

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2016, 08:05:30 PM »
Yeah have  look at at the cross platform branch which uses Eto.Forms.
We need someone who's osx to try see if they can get that working.

« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 04:08:03 AM by se5a »
 

Offline se5a

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2016, 04:13:40 AM »
...The tricky part is supporting 'Plot Interception' commands. The only two ways I can find to work that out are to either use brute force iterations or else to simply the problem by ignoring gravity.

have any of the KSP mods solved that? Mechjeb maybe? it's been a while since I've looked.
 

Offline sublight

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2016, 02:30:15 PM »
have any of the KSP mods solved that? Mechjeb maybe? it's been a while since I've looked.

Mechjeb doesn't really solve it (the user guide suggests it is limited to hofman transfers unless the user supplies depart/arrival constraints), but numerical method interception solutions are known.

The usual method is to calculate P1(t1), P2(t2), and then iterate through intersecting orbital arcs for a deltaT match... and to then repeat this calculation a couple hundred/thousand times with different t1/t2 values to build a porkchop plot you can search for an optimal dV/dT solution.

I saw one speed comparison paper (link) that suggested such plots could be generated in a fraction of a second in C++ whereas my own implementations usually take a couple minutes to run. However even a quarter second of computation when multiplied by multiple ships will trigger a heat death any time a ship changes direction and every missile or ship on an interception course tries to recalculate.
 

Offline se5a

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Re: Newtonian Pulsar
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2016, 02:54:48 PM »
most the time it'd be a single fleet on intercept, and a handful of groups of missiles, you'd only do the calculation once per fleet and once per missile group.
 

 

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