Author Topic: Complete list of Suggestions  (Read 498 times)

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ReviewDude01b

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Complete list of Suggestions
« on: May 20, 2017, 10:55:03 AM »
Hi, first this game has potential to be Amazing (12/10).  Now Im trying to write a list of things why its not.  Point of this threat is constructive criticism, and sincere hope of adding something helpful for improving this game.

Aurora lacks: a lot of polish.  Its extremely deep and complex, and at the same time its stupid in some aspects.
Point is: I would like to feel like a galactic emperor, not like an automated bot clicking same button 50* times a row.

1.  Player Time (and mouse click lifetime) Saving Suggestions:
Some basic AI, or it would be called order templates? (for fuel/maintenance and survey?)


When ship fuel<30, or maintenance clock. . . etc. . . .
Why I have to add conditional orders and control if my ships have enough fuel after missions, maintenance parts, etc.
Point is that crew captains (especially survey ships) should automatically go for fuel and parts if needed.  No frills.
I dont want to see ship runs out of fuel event and do something with it, i would like to feel like im not the only intelligent person in my empire in galaxy.

Some Auto Survey?

Typically when I design a geo or grav survey i want it to survey, Again I have to click million times for every ship jump to that, then click default orders then set conditional orders for fuel etc. . its madness.
Maybe simply add checkbox for grav or geo survey ship in design screen and that ship would auto survey in system which i chose?

Economy, mining, freighters, research is almost superb 10/10!

Military? (its mostly SHALLOW, compared to other 4x games, and total Aurora 4X complexity)

First, LOW amount of weapon types and choices.  From game like Aurora I would expect to have far more weapon types and choices:


Point is that you basically got : long range ASM, AMM, and then some mostly stupid short range mostly PD beams. 
And thats it. 
Where is Option to design real long range/medium range Cannons, Plasma Cannons, or to play more with beam weapons?. . . .

Imagine star trek: (Phaser, Disruptor weapons, photon torpedoes, plasma torpedoes (I know you can get them frum ruins but still))
Other 4x games (emp torpedoes, disruptors, Asteroids throwers)

Well i can type here a lot, but point is that whole weapon design system and screen is something along : Missiles, Kinetic, energy, and microwave and short range weapons compared to missiles ,,. . . are REALLY short ranged. . . . and thats it. . . its basically 4x standard, from a game like aurora i would expect more than 4x standard.


Then Shields: Shields . . . . . use fuel. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . fuel?. . . . wut?
I mean only point of having reactor on ship is for lasers? wut?

Then armor: Have you seen Star Ruler 2 ? (something along the lines of reactive armor,,,,,I mean to implement some more armor variety?)


Then sensors: ok so we have HST or tonnage but what about some volume reduction options? I mean imagine we have 10kt ship which has a volume of 5 kt because it uses lightweight construction materials and then its harder to spot on sensor.

More types of sensors maybe?

Engines: military ships should have 2 speeds, cruising, and overthrust (used in contact) should guzzle a lot more fuel obviously.


And most importantly: All of these setting should be made available in CLASS DESIGN SCREEN!!!.
Typically when i for example design my Destroyer: I always want to use THIS fire control for THESE weapons, and THIS FC for THIS etc.
And when I design this GEO survey I always want this GEo survey to have DEFAULT order to SURVEY and to have conditional order to GTFO when its low on fuel.

(In case Im wrong or I have missed something Please correct me. )


And point is: Assuming Steve has been reading this post.  (because this game is not moddable)
Would it be possible to implement these changes?

I summarize it again:
No 999999k micro clicking (class design screen FC and default and conditional order assignment or order templates or basic ship AI for refuel/maintenance)
Beam weapons overhaul, (mostly more WEAPONS and more range) (Railgun and Gauss included)
Shields overhaul (energy, not just fuel shields, maybe more types)
Engines (Cruising and Combat speed)

Optional Misc:
Armor (able to choose each single armor layer to have different properties? like upper ablative, second layer reactive, (for high blasts), etc, this would maybe implement weapons ricocheting? and since beams would have more range and more variety it would be ok?)
Volume vs.  Tonnage (aka lightweight construction for less sensor profile?)
More sensor types?
Torpedoes researchable? (to have alternatives to missiles? or simply add SHield component available on missiles? huh?)


Conclusion: I m in fact game and mod dev.  myself so: Would it be possible and desirable to implement these changes?
If yes i could actually volunteer to design these systems.  (So Steve could only grab it and implement it but community or someone would OFC first need to approve it. ) Sry for bad grammar (Idgaf). 

Opinions? (or not?)




 

Offline Sleepymoon

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Re: Complete list of Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2017, 12:45:44 PM »
You actually can create order templates.
Beam weapon range has been a long standing issue, the problem is tracking light speed weapons for longer than the 5s turn limit.  Steve is trying to address this by making missiles less fuel efficient.
Plasma lances are being added to the game and I'm sure Steve would be willing to add other weapons if you can suggest a tactical reason for them to be included.
There are already absorption shields, I don't know the logic behind fuel and power plants either.
I do like the idea of ships being able to adjust their speed and efficiency on the go instead of having to research and design several different types of efficiency engines.

Ablative armour would make beam weapons even less effective.
We already have cloaking to reduce sensor profile.
Again give a tactical reason and I'm sure more sensors could be included.
I'm not sure what use a torpedo would have against a ship that can instantaneously change speed and direction.  Missiles already have ablative armour so shields wouldn't add much.

Being able to mod the game would be nice but I think Steve wants to retain creative control or doesn't want a million bug complaints from poorly implemented mods.
 
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Offline iceball3

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Re: Complete list of Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2017, 02:51:04 PM »
If you could elaborate exactly what you mean by "more variety" or "more options" then it'd count as an actual suggestion, I think, ReviewDude.
The model for armors that looks to stay in aurora is "Shielding, homogeneous 2d ablation grid, internal HTK", with little room for change.
The reasons why shields use fuel is so that (player ships, at least) do not have an infinitely recharging ball of shielding that is impenetrable to all except mesons, it's to rein in the strength of really big shield systems, really.

The reason why BFC linking is not in class design screen is because ships are allowed to respect them on a component by component basis, particularly after a sensor is killed. There's already hotkeys to copy FC assignments across all ships of the same design, at least.


Also, why the call for researching torpedoes? What is it that torpedoes do that missiles can't? Or do you mean plasma torpedoes? Those are gone for good.
 

Offline ReviewDude01

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Re: Complete list of Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2017, 03:20:27 PM »
Ok, sry for poorly written post i try to elaborate more.             
Ty Sleepymoon for suggestions i didnt know that I can create order templates.             

Well thing is that 5s laser (lightspeed limit on lasers) has little reason,
When missiles with 20000km/s can reliably hit ships going 3000km/s in space with ranges over 150m Km.      (with mostly basics techs)
I mean try to imagine that in space, its as much impossible as .       
When missile is going 20000 km/s and has enough fuel to travel over 100m Km it would need far more agility to turn and hit a ship
which is trying to dodge (as Im assuming it is trying to dodge at least somehow because it makes sense).             

So I would just remove 5s on lasers entirely and just make energy weapons and lasers with over 1,5m range.             

But the best way to make things would be to implement "cannon" or "artillery" volley (barrages) as objects on battle map (for example nuclear flak cannons).              They would basically work same as missiles in code (except obviously they are not missiles, etc.              and for example could have reduced chance to hit based on distance traveled  ) but they would be mostly untargetable by PDs (based on weapon ofc.             )

Nice thing would be if shields would have reactor power requirement and fuel requirement.     (RP reasons mostly, but I think that Aurora is mostly about RP anyway, it would be as easy that shields could have reduced recharge rate based on power missing.       aka.         shields on ship require 30 power and have 150 recharge.      If ship has 20 power then 30/20 = 1.   5 shield would have 150*1.   5 recharge rate= 225.          )

I Actually found limited way to mod this game (not gonna tell anyone) first thing I did was to
adjust some RP costs but first Jump Max Squadron Size 3 changed it to Personal Only (1 ship max 0,4 Size) (and adjusted all techs accordingly) This at least makes nice RP plays viable.              (For example if i want Star Trek style and not use jump tenders.   but jump tenders are still more viable in long run and there is a new late game tech among max squadron size which allows further jump drive miniaturization.  .  .  )

Next thing Im going to adjust reactors boosts from +% power and +% explosion chance to something interesting like starting at +0% power and 30% explosion, then having option for overdrive (like +% power +% explosion), safe reactor, 0% chance - power.                  etc.          While retaining mostly basic RP costs.     

My aim is simply to have more options for military designs.          Missile warfare.       is kinda OK, but I just feel that overall aurora combat setting is more like today naval warfare than an actual 4x.       
iceball3: " What is it that torpedoes do that missiles can't?" Thats actually my problem that missiles can do mostly everything and other weapons cant.     

I understand Steve.     If Im going to mod Aurora this way for my personal purposes and its going to turn out that I like it more than original I would then ask Steve if I can publish it at least at this site.             

Thing about armor model I would like to see (my dreams) is like one from Star Ruler 2.     Too long to explain that today for me sry, but I hope someone has played that.       

 Sleepymoon: "Ablative armour would make beam weapons even less effective.       " Yes that could be implemented after some future real energy artillery.     
Sleepymoon: "We already have cloaking to reduce sensor profile.        " I was thinking about volume reduction which could reduce weapons chances to hit the ship while remaining same tonnage.     

iceball3: "Or do you mean plasma torpedoes? Those are gone for good. " : yep? Im sad.  Never saw them just read about them.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 03:57:49 PM by ReviewDude01 »
 

Offline iceball3

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Re: Complete list of Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2017, 04:38:51 PM »
I'll address a few:
Plasma torpedoes, specifically, were removed because NPRs in other systems would get stuck in endless loops, kiting each other while unable to crack each other's shielding.


For missiles, I feel like I'd argue that the sheer flexibility of what you can design them with allows you to basically call them all sorts of things that are "not quite missiles." Torpedoes, planetar glassing artillery, etc. It does a lot with few designs, and the ability to rename the designs you do, as well as have the different usages of it be distinct allow it to fill the "longest range weaponry" niche.

For beam weapons, I concur that restricting beam weapons to light speeds might just be a little restrictive, honestly, considering the setting.
With that consideration, though, I'm content with "tracking weapons" and "instant shot" weapons being in separate categories in terms of the range envelope they cover, and missiles seem to just suit any range worth tracking the projectile at.

I'm personally alright with power plants being separate from shield, though it would be cool if Engine Tech would be able to affect shielding designs in some way.
I figure linear shield scaling is the best way to do things, else larger shields become even more outright impossible to crack through with DPS.

Quote
Sleepymoon: "We already have cloaking to reduce sensor profile.        " I was thinking about volume reduction which could reduce weapons chances to hit the ship while remaining same tonnage.     
That's.... literally what ECM does, actually.

On a tangentially related note, all things considered though, aurora is in an interesting position of a logistic "realism ensues" that seems to have emerged almost organically in it's development.
For instance, we like to imagine ships with lasers shooting at each other through space.
However, the tracts of space are immense, and ships have to be able to travel far and fast to be logistically sensible, and for ships to ever even reach each other for said laser combat.
However, missiles, are, in essence, really small less-fuel-efficient than normal ships that explode on impact.
Curiously, this entails that missiles can go at least a small fraction of distance that ships do.
Consequently, due to how big space is, this leads into a situation where missiles catastrophically out-range beam weapons, because any meaningfully "beamy" distance you can engage something is very short compared to any actual spacetravel distance.

Another consideration: dumb-fire space artillery might not be the best way to represent ranges at beyond 5 light seconds. At that point, you might as well just utilize the many long range beam techs. (Why do particle guns have more max range tech than the maximum theoretical range? The world may never know.), or just use missiles. It's sort of an "in between" that's just as easily served by either system.

In terms of armor, the current code for it is pretty... Set in. Getting extra fancy schmancy armor systems might require an overhaul, which I don't know if you'll even be able to do with the designer password.
 

Offline ReviewDude01

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Re: Complete list of Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2017, 11:04:05 AM »
iceball3: "with fancy designer password" nope its impossible.      .      .      .     
You can adjust techs ranges damages, its pretty limited.       
Im ok with current mechanics I just wanted to expand them somehow.     

I understand how realistic combat works but representing missiles in space as going constant speed is as much fake as keeping 5s laser limit.       
In real combat in space missiles would have some acceleration: and they would go faster at max ranges compared to start ranges.     
This would result in calculation where missiles would have far less hit chance at max ranges (cuz they would be faster) but far stronger PD penetration.       And vice versa at close ranges.      .      .      .      .      Or they could have constant speed and save all fuel while being close to target to turn and accelerate to maximize hit and PD pen.     
Also .      .      things like decoys.      .      chaff.      .      .      hiding behind asteroid fields (or orbital bodies) for reduced radar coverage or converging on target while having Star behind (for reduced heat profile) would take effect so missiles would be far less efficient as they atm are.     
Yep you can rename them .      .      to Macro barrages.      .      .      or Nuclear flak barrages.      .      .      but thing is the same.      .      .      you can shot that down with pd.     

Im completely content with current armor and HTK mechanics.      .      .      i would just be happy if there could be options to designate some special armor layers.      .      .      like reactive .      .      etc.      .      .      it would be .      .      just nice.      .      .      .     

Yep this game is amazing.      .      .      .      supply lines, logistics resources etc.      .      .      .      thats why Im complaining that combat feel shallow for me atm.       (compared to all other amazing things in Aurora)

You know what? Im gonna maybe mod this thing .   .   .   .   Im not in the mood atm.    But its not much work cuz I cant do much anyway and I know what I want.    Then I could talk a little more about how I imagine space combat :D (At least a little bit.   .   .   I think that Steve is probably never gonna implement some overhauls anyway cuz he is busy with C aurora.   )

EDIT: no I dont have designer password. . . neither I can access designer mode. . . . I meant other way.  I in fact would appreciate designer mode access :D (but no idea, what is designer mode anyway?)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 11:30:45 AM by ReviewDude01 »
 

Offline Barkhorn

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Re: Complete list of Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 11:30:40 AM »
"Engines: military ships should have 2 speeds, cruising, and overthrust (used in contact) should guzzle a lot more fuel obviously."

You can do this already.  There's a speed setting on the task force command window.  Fuel use per kilometer is the same no matter the speed, but your heat signature is lower at low speed.

You can also already do chaff and decoys.  They're basically missiles with no warhead and lots of armor, to soak up PD fire.
 

Offline ReviewDude01

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Re: Complete list of Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 11:31:37 AM »
I meant anti-missile chaff and decoys,,,not anti-PD chaff and decoys.
 

Offline Lordubik

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Re: Complete list of Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2017, 01:40:20 PM »
Quote from: ReviewDude01 link=topic=9525. msg102743#msg102743 date=1495643497
I meant anti-missile chaff and decoys,,,not anti-PD chaff and decoys. 

That would make sense only for thermal signature.  The active sensor used to acquire the target use gravitic interference to highlight it, so the missile would not be attracted to chaffs and decoys, unless you manage to create a decoy that creates a gravitic interference similar to the ship's one.
 

Offline boggo2300

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Re: Complete list of Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 04:30:25 PM »
the vast majority of missiles in Aurora aren't self guided either...
The boggosity of the universe tends towards maximum.
 

Offline iceball3

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Re: Complete list of Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 06:30:50 PM »
I understand how realistic combat works but representing missiles in space as going constant speed is as much fake as keeping 5s laser limit.       
In real combat in space missiles would have some acceleration: and they would go faster at max ranges compared to start ranges.     
This would result in calculation where missiles would have far less hit chance at max ranges (cuz they would be faster) but far stronger PD penetration.       And vice versa at close ranges.      .      .      .      .      Or they could have constant speed and save all fuel while being close to target to turn and accelerate to maximize hit and PD pen.     
Also .      .      things like decoys.      .      chaff.      .      .      hiding behind asteroid fields (or orbital bodies) for reduced radar coverage or converging on target while having Star behind (for reduced heat profile) would take effect so missiles would be far less efficient as they atm are.     
Yep you can rename them .      .      to Macro barrages.      .      .      or Nuclear flak barrages.      .      .      but thing is the same.      .      .      you can shot that down with pd.     
-Currently, there exists mid-late game tech called "Laser warheads" They allow missiles to ignore final fire. It could use a little work, but that's probably as close in the "barrage stuff" vein as it'll get.
-Weapons that track the projectile but cannot be shot down are mostly pointless to track the projectile for anyway. Why not make it instant? Why disallow shooting down the projectile if you can shoot something that's faster than it? Why can't it be evaded as soon as it's detected? And so forth.
-Missiles do not accelerate/decelerate. Notice how ships don't, either? Because, rather strictly, they're made of "non newtonian" materials. Momentum of travelling stuff doesn't work normally in this game.
Even balance wise, what's stopping a missile from double back and accelerating forth on to it's target along a longer path than going straight? It basically means that a missile can reasonably hit a target at full speed regardless of where you fire, anyway.
 

 

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