Author Topic: Task Force Survey Officer  (Read 466 times)

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Offline MagusXIX

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Task Force Survey Officer
« on: May 27, 2017, 09:29:04 AM »
I was perusing the wiki when lo and behold I came across this little line ... ( http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Leaders#List_of_Abilities )

"Survey: Used by Geological Team members to discover additional, overlooked Trans-Newtonian Minerals on colony worlds and Task Force Survey Officers to grant a bonus to the Survey efforts of all ships in the Task Force in the same system as the TFSO."

Now, I'd never realized that in order to get the survey bonus from my survey officer I'd need to cart them around to each system as my survey ships/teams operate in them. What's the best way to do this? Put the entire task force administrative staff in a flag bridge on a survey ship that's been modified to have a flag bridge? Build a special "Command Vessel" with a flag bridge to cart the administrative staff around?

This seems a little silly to me. I feel like the Survey Officer should be fine operating from wherever the rest of the Task Force administrative team operates. It's an admin role, not a field role, right? Am I just missing something here?
 

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Re: Task Force Survey Officer
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2017, 09:47:12 AM »
My understanding is that this is the case for all officers assigned to the Task Force. That is a key use of the flag bridge and/or creating Task Forces on planets other than Earth, otherwise all those Task Force officers are sitting back on Earth and cannot really contribute to the decision making in the system in which the ships are operating.
 

Offline serger

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Re: Task Force Survey Officer
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2017, 02:24:35 PM »
Build a special "Command Vessel" with a flag bridge to cart the administrative staff around?

Why not?
There is my midgame solution from the last campaign:

Finally my Survey Command consists of two types of Task Forces - GEV TF and GSV TF respectively. Each of them consits of command&supply part and surveyors part.

Command&Supply part consists of 1 command ship, 1 military-grade jump tender and 1 jump-capable tanker.
GEV survey part consists of GEV division (up to 6 GEVs) only.
GSV survey part consists of GSV division and 1 survey light carrier with a flight of recon fighters.

Code: [Select]
V5Q Royalist class Command Ship    1 000 tons     37 Crew     302 BP      TCS 20  TH 140  EM 0
7000 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maint Life 10.93 Years     MSP 189    AFR 8%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 3    5YR 43    Max Repair 150 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 51 months    Spare Berths 0   
Flag Bridge   

PDMS-c G5 (7)    Power 20    Fuel Use 59.4%    Signature 20    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 165 000 Litres    Range 50.0 billion km   (82 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
V5J Spellbinder class Jump Tender    1 000 tons     20 Crew     151.4 BP      TCS 20  TH 140  EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maint Life 15.7 Years     MSP 95    AFR 8%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 1    5YR 11    Max Repair 12 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 180 months    Spare Berths 0   

JDM3-1000 G2     Max Ship Size 1000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
PDMS-c G5 (7)    Power 20    Fuel Use 59.4%    Signature 20    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 75.8 billion km   (125 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
Ogre class Jump Tanker    22 500 tons     140 Crew     1088 BP      TCS 450  TH 2000  EM 0
4444 km/s    JR 2-25(C)     Armour 1-70     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 30    Max Repair 125 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 120 months    Spare Berths 1   

JDC2-22500 G1     Max Ship Size 22500 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 2
PDCT-H G5 (4)    Power 500    Fuel Use 5.3%    Signature 500    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 3 845 000 Litres    Range 580.3 billion km   (1511 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
V5P Explorer class Geological Survey Vessel    1 000 tons     23 Crew     254.4 BP      TCS 20  TH 160  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/1     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 8.32 Years     MSP 111    AFR 11%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 3    5YR 43    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 82 months    Spare Berths 0   

PDMS-c G5 (8)    Power 20    Fuel Use 59.4%    Signature 20    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 180 000 Litres    Range 54.5 billion km   (78 days at full power)

Geological Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
V5G Foxhound class Gravitational Survey Vessel    1 000 tons     23 Crew     254.4 BP      TCS 20  TH 160  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/1/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 8.32 Years     MSP 111    AFR 11%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 3    5YR 43    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 82 months    Spare Berths 0   

PDMS-c G5 (8)    Power 20    Fuel Use 59.4%    Signature 20    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 180 000 Litres    Range 54.5 billion km   (78 days at full power)

Gravitational Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
V5H Oberon class Survey Light Carrier    1 000 tons     16 Crew     164.5 BP      TCS 20  TH 140  EM 0
7000 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 6 Years     MSP 36    AFR 22%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 2    5YR 26    Max Repair 10 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 50 months    Flight Crew Berths 7   
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 18   

PDMS-c G5 (7)    Power 20    Fuel Use 59.4%    Signature 20    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 150 000 Litres    Range 45.5 billion km   (75 days at full power)

Strike Group
1x F/L-51 Mab Buoy Laying Boat   Speed: 12578 km/s    Size: 1.59
2x F/R-5T Titania Recon Fighter   Speed: 13888 km/s    Size: 1.44

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
F/R-5T Titania class Recon Fighter    72 tons     1 Crew     15.6 BP      TCS 1.44  TH 20  EM 0
13888 km/s     Armour 1-1     Shields 0-0     Sensors 2/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 14%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 0    5YR 6    Max Repair 12 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 1   

PDMS-c G5 (1)    Power 20    Fuel Use 59.4%    Signature 20    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 Litres    Range 21.0 billion km   (17 days at full power)

TSDS-o G4 (1)     Sensitivity 2     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  2m km

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
F/L-51 Mab class Buoy Laying Boat    80 tons     1 Crew     16 BP      TCS 1.59  TH 20  EM 0
12578 km/s     Armour 1-1     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0.15
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 15%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 0    5YR 6    Max Repair 10 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 1   

PDMS-c G5 (1)    Power 20    Fuel Use 59.4%    Signature 20    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 Litres    Range 19.1 billion km   (17 days at full power)

MLSB-c (1)    Missile Size 1    Hangar Reload 7.5 minutes    MF Reload 1.2 hours
FCMD-o G4-2 (1)     Range 5.2m km    Resolution 170
TSB-c G3 (1)  Speed: 0 km/s   End: 0m    Range: 0m km   WH: 0    Size: 1    TH: 0/0/0

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

As you can see, V5Q Royalist build cost is very small part of entire Survey Task Force, and she isn't a big fuel consumer too (because of her waiting-on-the-JP role).
 

Offline MagusXIX

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Re: Task Force Survey Officer
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2017, 05:05:07 PM »
Oh man, and here I thought that having two separate classes for geo/grav was tedious enough that I just said screw it and combined the two into a single jump-capable science vessel. I really don't want to be pausing the game to re-issue orders at every planet, or worry about splitting task forces/groups just for surveying. Looks like I might just have to either put up with it or else go through the tedium.

I wonder if I could instead just go for the all-in-one approach except for shifting the jump drive+ flag bridge to a survey command vessel. Still seems like a lot of extra work/investment for the survey officer bonus, though.
 

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Re: Task Force Survey Officer
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2017, 10:48:04 PM »
I personally don't think it is worth going after unless you are role-playing? a particular style. I tend to just do a class for geo surveys and a class for grav surveys. My experience with combined ships was that it caused more interrupts.
 

Offline serger

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Re: Task Force Survey Officer
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2017, 04:50:39 AM »
My reasons for these designs was:
1. Every minimal naval yard (1000t) must have an ability to build survey ships, because bigger, older and more expensive yards will be busy with battle ships and fast naval transports.
2. Every survey ship must have an ability to break off precursor guards and most of other potential threats. No kamikaze surveyours in my star nation!
3. Survey Task Force must have minimal fuel consumption with good survey speed.
4. Survey Task Force must have an ability to work on Default Orders without in-system interrupts, but I have to control it's inter-system line of advance.
5. I have to choose manually which system will be immediately surveyed completely, up to the last asteroid, and which I want to shelve (especially with very wide systems - uncontrolled universal surveyours will stuck in such systems for many years).
 

Offline MagusXIX

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Re: Task Force Survey Officer
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2017, 11:50:47 AM »
I think the thing that primarily struck me as strange was that in order to get the survey bonus (bring along the Task Force Survey Officer) I also have to bring along the entire task for administration. Of the full suite of task force officers, how many of them are actually relevant to a survey fleet? I haven't actually looked into this before, so bear with me while I do it now ...

Communications - Seems to mitigate the delay effects of poor training. Irrelevant until combat happens, and so largely irrelevant to a survey task force unless something has gone very, very wrong or else you're the sort of person who likes to scout with survey ships.
Diplomacy - Increases ship PPV. Irrelevant to a survey task force. Note that it's not irrelevant to a generalist task force that can also survey, but that'll be true of most of these.
Intelligence - Unsure what value this actually effects, but it seems to have something to do with adding intel to the intel window. Probably effects the chances to gain reliable intel on alien contacts? Seems largely irrelevant to a survey task force, again unless you scout with survey ships.
Operations - Unsure what value this actually effects, but seems to occupy much the same role as Communications, and so also largely irrelevant to a survey task force.
Logistics - Seems to improve any and all load times (cargo, ground units, etc) and so *largely* irrelevant to a survey task force. Unsure what effect, if any, this may have on loading/unloading geology/xenology teams, but that happens really quickly without the bonus anyway.
Public Affairs - ??? Not even listed on the wiki.
Fighter Operations - Reduces time to rearm/refuel fighters. While some survey fleets use fighters, refuel/rearm time seems largely irrelevant unless in combat. Relative to survey times, time taken for refueling survey fighters is negligible with or without any bonuses.
Survey - On ship commanders, this increases the number of survey points generated per tick. On task force admins, it's not listed on the wiki. ???

So yeah, carting around an entire task force admin team from system to system just seems a little silly for a survey task force. Maybe there's some kind of suggestion we could come up with to make this better for Steve's new command module system for C# Aurora? We should refine it here before posting to the official suggestion thread.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 11:58:06 AM by MagusXIX »
 

Offline serger

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Re: Task Force Survey Officer
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2017, 12:05:09 PM »
Public Affairs is a staff position to use Diplomacy skill.
Operations officer bonus increases training speed (in addition to Commander's Crue Training Rating).

And yes, C# Aurora will have another command system:
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg101818#msg101818
 

Offline byron

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Re: Task Force Survey Officer
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2017, 01:34:37 PM »
I used a multi-part survey task force for a while (don't have ship specs with me, sorry), and it's possible to make it less arduous via some careful automation.  That said, it was still annoying enough I dropped it and went back to using one ship per system.  I didn't include a flag bridge, though.
I ran eight ships with sensors, two whose job was to check out new JPs, two escort corvettes, and a supply ship to coordinate everything.  The subordinate task force tree helped make the whole thing work reasonably well, but I eventually got bored of it.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 01:36:20 PM by byron »
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Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Task Force Survey Officer
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2017, 05:26:27 PM »
So yeah, carting around an entire task force admin team from system to system just seems a little silly for a survey task force. Maybe there's some kind of suggestion we could come up with to make this better for Steve's new command module system for C# Aurora? We should refine it here before posting to the official suggestion thread.
You're approaching this the wrong way. You do not need to fill out all those positions. Sure, for Home Fleet in Sol but Survey Command TF you just fill the overall commander and the survey officer to get their bonuses and that's it. You can safely leave all the other spots empty and it will not hinder your survey fleet at all.

The bonus is also not critically necessary so don't think you're missing out on important stuff if you do not set up a survey fleet that utilizes the TF system.
 

 

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