Rock, Paper, Shotgun Interview with Steve

[dgibso29 (OP)]

Was very happy to wake up to this today: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/21/interview-aurora-the-4x-sci-fi-dwarf-fortress/

[SteelChicken]

"I wanted detail, complexity and variety but not micromanagement"

This was highly amusing.

[Garfunkel]

Good interview.

Sad to read some of the comments, though. I don't think myself special or part of some "5% special group" who have actually put in the effort to learn the game but from glancing over the RPS comments, it seems that I am. So many complaining that they couldn't "get" the game at all. I did play Harpoon and Pacific War back in the day, so I guess that's part of the explanation.

[Dvorhagen]

That was actually the article that introduced me to the game, and I agree.  I was disappointed -- usually RPS commentors are more sophisticated. 

And, while I'm ranting, I find the amount of bewilderment in Aurora threads in general very irritating.  "I can't get past the UI!" "This makes my brain hurt!" Seriously? Then obviously you're not going to enjoy it -- go play GalCiv2.  I actually find it perfectly accessible, after a little research and experimentation, and it is amaaazing.  This is the kind of depth I've been looking for in a game like this for years! And I find the spartan interface more immersive than a heavily graphical one would be.  If you really were managing a vast galactic empire, spreadsheets and simple vectored blips is more likely what you'd be looking at all day than gleaming ships and plasma explosions. . . .

Anyway, Steve Walmsley has done the world (of gaming, anyway) a great service by creating this.  At the risk of sounding snobbish (meh), this is a game for real gamers, who don't mind working for their supper -- thinking logically and methodically, planning thoroughly, injecting some imagination into the game world, and occasionally doing a little algebra.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I have mentioned the game in a few other forums when people asked for other 4x games.

It's not uncommon to hear comments like, retarded UI, stone aged graphics, convoluted mechanics or things like that.

You just have to state the fact that it's not for everyone, but for those willing to invest time to get past the learning curve there is a great game there.

[Erik L]

It's not "console ready"

[Dvorhagen]

"Where's the 32x anti-aliasing on the System Map orbits!!??"

[Thiosk]

The key thing I like about it is that it gets the sim aspect of it really great.

What I don't like is how the database becomes clunky and unmanageable in short order- I've never had a game go 100 years without simply getting too bogged down. My best game I spent using a BURN THE BRIDGES approach: explore systems with annihilation-ready fleets  in order to shut down AI exploration ASAP.

If it were possible to turn off "Ai plays by the same rules" mechanics and instead use a procedural model governing what various races do (see anno 2070), i"d be excited by that. As such, I'm toying with such design myself, since I don't think it fits with aurora.

[Alfapiomega]

In my opinion this game has a very long learning period where people have to experiment with things. Freedom is not always without complication - the game gives you choice to do everything you wish which can be a curse for most of the gamers - they simply don't know what to do and get frustrated fast - which is understandable when the majority of them are kids in between 12 and 18 (I could show you my YT statistics that prove this). I myself felt overwhelmed when I found the game some time ago but as I am 26 and have some 15 years of gaming under my hood I went in and could get the past the initial "WTF DO I DO?!" phase. I felt this with some other roguelikes or games that were more complicated but never gave up on a game. Sadly I saw others do it more frequently than not which then stucks then in a cycle of "this game is too complicated, this one too, this one too... there are no good games!".
With that said let's be honest - there still isn't any tutorial or good explanation and the ones I found when I started were awfully outdated. This forum on the other hand is incredibly helpful (as Steve mentions) but I know that many people rather send me a message on YT to ask something rather than risking asking here or elsewhere and looking "silly".

The good news though guys is that my videos of Aurora are getting a huge amount of views in the past few days and not only the first one and I started getting comments from people who found the game recently and are digging in now. So we might have more "experienced" gamers joining us soon

[Nibelung44]

I believe that the windows/components/mouse support of Aurora, even if very old and W98 like is much more user friendly than Dwarf Fortress. So yes, the game is complex and not much fancy, but much more user friendly that DF, for me at least.

[alex_brunius]

I believe that the windows/components/mouse support of Aurora, even if very old and W98 like is much more user friendly than Dwarf Fortress. So yes, the game is complex and not much fancy, but much more user friendly that DF, for me at least.

I agree, people who thinks Aurora is harder to get into then DF must be such diehard DF players they since long forgotten how arcane all the symbols and random keyboard controls actually are to new players

I tried to get into DF and even though I eventually got most of the basics the process was neither intuitive nor that fun to be honest.
With Aurora however I have a hard time imagining a more effective interface. Aurora interface even if it's nothing fancy is very straight forward and logical, I hardly had to use to wiki at all (with DF I think I spent more time on the wiki then in game the first 10 hours!!).

[Geoffroypi]

One of the comment  in RPS :

Ability to sell the idea is as important as the idea itself.
This guy certainly might have had some idea at some point – deeply underneath the layers of code. But no slightest clue how to sell it. He probably wouldn’t be able to sell a gold coin to anyone for any amount of money.

It’s horrific that something possibly so great will be wasted and unseen by anyone but the author himself and few hardcore people with no life what so ever.

So next time you're creating a game, Steve, MAKE A BUSINESS PLAN !
And release the next 6.4 patch as a 4.99$ dlc.

[Stardust]

All the spreadsheets are simply the way you, as leader of a mighty empire, communicate your every wish to those who are responsible for pleasing you.  The fancy graphics of most other games just distract from the tasks at hand.

I still enjoy books more than I do movies.  You have to first take the time to learn to read.  Once that's done, it still requires a bit more of an investment in time and effort.   But it's worth it.  Some people are put off by the plain black letters on white paper.

[Aloriel]

The sentiment here echos mine.

I did not find the UI off putting, nor did I find the game "too difficult". Difficulty is relative, of course. I actually found large sections of the game intuitive. But of course, I came from a background similar to Steve's. I've played my fair share of Avalon Hill games. I play a lot of paper games, and some incredibly complex board games. I'm a 4X nut, and will probably play every 4X game out there at least once. Aurora is the only one that truly challenged me, not from hostile aliens that want to eat me, but from depth and scope!

I sit here writing this as a break from installing the new version of Unity, where I have been working on my *own* 4X dream game. It's not much yet. Nothing to see at all. However, it does exist. Mostly because Aurora inspired me to start creating it.

[Theodidactus]

Ability to sell the idea is as important as the idea itself.
This guy certainly might have had some idea at some point – deeply underneath the layers of code. But no slightest clue how to sell it. He probably wouldn’t be able to sell a gold coin to anyone for any amount of money.

It’s horrific that something possibly so great will be wasted and unseen by anyone but the author himself and few hardcore people with no life what so ever.

I saw this comment too and loved it. it's rare to see something so obviously backward. I don't know biographies super well but Steve strikes me as the sort of person that always has a plan...professionally. But this ain't the business world. Otherwise I wouldn't be here.

Aurora is not succeeding IN SPITE of being ill-planned and poorly marketed, it's succeeding BECAUSE of being ill-planned and poorly marketed. A bunch of people sitting down at a table and coherently planning out a game and thinking about how to make it appeal to large player groups can't make something like this. It's just not possible. This stuff can only come from one individual who has, in the words of one classical thinker of great repute, "been in the lab with a pen and a pad."