Aurora 4x
VB6 Aurora => Bureau of Ship Design => Topic started by: Xkill on December 26, 2011, 11:27:49 PM
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Well then, this time stuff is bad for me. I need help, the Star Swarm has appeared!
After around 5 years of lurking the bastards decided to show up. I was just surveying my second system when strange stuff started to happen. 800 ton wrecked swarmlings started to appear and dissapear at a comet in this new system. In the start it was only one, but by the time I sent my humble 'Unrest Decreaser' fleet in, it was more than 8.
After my fleet got in the system, I ordered them to go to this strange comet, after 2 days of travel, exactly 39 ships appeared right on top of my fleet. The bastards didn't even let me react. On the first 5 seconds of contact they fired upon my ships, blew up 1 and damaged the other 3.
My tech is pretty rudimentary as of now, even thought I'm 10 years in this game. (Ultra crappy scientists that can only operate with 5 labs and no bonus)
This is my only military ship design:
Hiigan class Missile Frigate 5.000 tons 498 Crew 722,4 BP TCS 100 TH 360 EM 0
3600 km/s Armour 3-26 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 24
Maint Life 0 Years MSP 0 AFR 1000% IFR 13,9% 1YR 226 5YR 3392 Max Repair 48 MSP
Magazine 264
Ion Engine E8 (M) (6) Power 60 Fuel Use 80% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400.000 Litres Range 180,0 billion km (578 days at full power)
Size 4 Missile Launcher (6) Missile Size 4 Rate of Fire 60
Missile Fire Control FC44-R60 (2) Range 44,6m km Resolution 60
ASM-10 Snake (66) Speed: 15.000 km/s End: 50m Range: 45m km WH: 8 Size: 4 TH: 55 / 33 / 16
Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 (1) GPS 32 Range 1,9m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR22-R60 (1) GPS 2880 Range 22,3m km Resolution 60
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
I need urgent help, I got 2 survey ships trapped in this system, and this system has a direct connection to Sol! And, sadly, this game is the one with Jump Gates everywhere.
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Well, first of all there are a couple issues with your ship design. You've got a resolution 1 sensor on it, but the only good reason to use one is for point defense, and the ship has no PD weapons. (And it's too short-ranged for countermissiles, anyway.) Second, it has no maintenance modules at all. See the IFR 13.9%? That means there's a 13.9% chance of something breaking every five day increment - and it goes up the longer you stay away from home without refits. With no maintenance storage, you can't fix them, either. Third, your longer-ranged sensor has only half the range of your missiles; the other half of the range is wasted. That's fine if you plan to deploy them with another ship class with better radar, though.
Anyway, your existing fleet is screwed. Did you have your sensors on? That should have picked them up at a decent distance, but sometimes with long increments fleets can seemingly warp in on top of each other. Even if you'd spotted them at range, though, you wouldn't have had enough missiles to put them all down. You'll have to rebuild. Do you have PDCs on Earth? The mothership may or may not find the jump gate, but if it does it'll head for Earth, and a few good PDCs should be able to put it down. You're likely to lose a bunch of ships on the way, though. If you don't have any PDCs, build some. Armor is useless against swarm ships, so you can skimp on it for now. What you want is lots of missile tubes, and lots of missiles to put in them. (You don't need to worry about magazines, though; PDCs can load missiles from the population instantly.) The queen takes a beating to put down, and the more tubes you have the less shield regeneration you'll have to worry about.
Oh, and if you have no good scientists, build more academies. The more academies you have, the more commanders you get, and some fraction of them will be scientists. The more scientists you get, the more good scientists you get.
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Did you have your sensors on? That should have picked them up at a decent distance
That S22-R60 active sensor will only detect 800-ton targets at 1.5 m-km anyway... that's barely enough time to get off a single salvo at them, considering how fast they move. Even if you detected them, you aren't likely to hit them with those missiles. Surely you can build more accurate missiles with Ion tech level? My current (size-6) Ion-tech missiles have more than three times as good a to-Hit chance:
Missile Size: 6 MSP (0.3 HS) Warhead: 4 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 15
Speed: 30000 km/s Endurance: 28 minutes Range: 50.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 4.125
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 450% 3k km/s 150% 5k km/s 90% 10k km/s 45%
Materials Required: 1x Tritanium 3.55x Gallicite Fuel x2500
Development Cost for Project: 412RP
Have you read my thread in the Academy section... "Missile Design for Noobs"?
EDIT: link: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,4215.0.html
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Well, first of all there are a couple issues with your ship design. You've got a resolution 1 sensor on it, but the only good reason to use one is for point defense, and the ship has no PD weapons. (And it's too short-ranged for countermissiles, anyway.) Second, it has no maintenance modules at all. See the IFR 13.9%? That means there's a 13.9% chance of something breaking every five day increment - and it goes up the longer you stay away from home without refits. With no maintenance storage, you can't fix them, either. Third, your longer-ranged sensor has only half the range of your missiles; the other half of the range is wasted. That's fine if you plan to deploy them with another ship class with better radar, though.
Anyway, your existing fleet is screwed. Did you have your sensors on? That should have picked them up at a decent distance, but sometimes with long increments fleets can seemingly warp in on top of each other. Even if you'd spotted them at range, though, you wouldn't have had enough missiles to put them all down. You'll have to rebuild. Do you have PDCs on Earth? The mothership may or may not find the jump gate, but if it does it'll head for Earth, and a few good PDCs should be able to put it down. You're likely to lose a bunch of ships on the way, though. If you don't have any PDCs, build some. Armor is useless against swarm ships, so you can skimp on it for now. What you want is lots of missile tubes, and lots of missiles to put in them. (You don't need to worry about magazines, though; PDCs can load missiles from the population instantly.) The queen takes a beating to put down, and the more tubes you have the less shield regeneration you'll have to worry about.
Oh, and if you have no good scientists, build more academies. The more academies you have, the more commanders you get, and some fraction of them will be scientists. The more scientists you get, the more good scientists you get.
Well then, the resolution 1 sensor was really designed just to get some information on the enemy missile capabilities, since this ship was designed to defend against other NPRs (And for serving as cannon fodder to the Precursors) and as such, it isn't particularly suited for combat with the Swarm.
I already know about all the Maintenance stuff, but I like to play without it, so if I could, I would remove even the ones that are in design as of now.
The Longer-Ranged sensor stuff, actually is something that I didn't knew, thanks about that.
Now for the other half:
My fleet was screwed, now it exists no more. I did have the Active Sensors on but they cover such a tiny area that I'm surprised, that I was surprized about what happened. :P
Yeah, I ordered a full 30 day increment since no one got to my fleet in the 2 days. The little buggers targeted each ship at a time, and that slowed them down a bit. (enough to make the slaugher take around 40 seconds to finish)
I managed to fire 12 missiles at a couple of them, but the missiles did no damage whatsoever, and the bastards had only level 2 armour!
I got no PDCs, since I was counting on the fleet to decrease the unrest in Mars, thought I'm pretty sure they haven't found the Jump Gate, since they where hidden for more than 5 years!
I'm probably safe for now, thought I've been lurking throught the forums and I think I found a solution: Mines! I'll place a couple around the Jump Gate, the bastards come in, the mines launch the missiles, the bastards don't see it and get blown up, and if they don't get blown up they will probably be crippled enough for my crappy ships to take them out. (Except for the queen of course)
I'll try to build some PDCs just in case thought.
The Academies, damm! I knew that I forgot something, I'll rush to build 15 of them (ultra gigantic stockpile of Minerals on Earth)
That S22-R60 active sensor will only detect 800-ton targets at 1.5 m-km anyway... that's barely enough time to get off a single salvo at them, considering how fast they move. Even if you detected them, you aren't likely to hit them with those missiles. Surely you can build more accurate missiles with Ion tech level? My current (size-6) Ion-tech missiles have more than three times as good a to-Hit chance:
Missile Size: 6 MSP (0.3 HS) Warhead: 4 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 15
Speed: 30000 km/s Endurance: 28 minutes Range: 50.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 4.125
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 450% 3k km/s 150% 5k km/s 90% 10k km/s 45%
Materials Required: 1x Tritanium 3.55x Gallicite Fuel x2500
Development Cost for Project: 412RP
Have you read my thread in the Academy section... "Missile Design for Noobs"?
EDIT: link: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,4215.0.html
Yeah, I know the sensors are as good as crap now but I got nothing else, atleast for that size and tech.
I was trying to get the size on the missiles kinda low, so that it doesn't take more that a few months to make, cost less, and be able to shoot more that them, but since the warhead is, effectively, useless I will be obligated to make them bigger, I think I'm lucky as, I just expanded one of my Naval Yards to 9000 tons.
But now I got Mag Plasma Drives and the speed of the frigate got up to 4800km/s, it aint much but in a few months I'll have better missiles, until then, I'm just going to build up my military.
No, I'll read it now, thanks.
Thanks for the advice you two.
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I'll read it now, thanks.
You may also find this useful... a simple missile-design walk-through, with screen-shots.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,4309.msg42582.html#msg42582
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My current (size-6) Ion-tech missiles have more than three times as good a to-Hit chance:
Missile Size: 6 MSP (0.3 HS) Warhead: 4 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 15
Speed: 30000 km/s Endurance: 28 minutes Range: 50.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 4.125
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 450% 3k km/s 150% 5k km/s 90% 10k km/s 45%
Materials Required: 1x Tritanium 3.55x Gallicite Fuel x2500
Consider, though, that they have half the warhead and are 50% bigger, which means 50% slower firing speed. These are still better-designed, but not as dramatically so as the raw hit chance would suggest.
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Consider, though, that they have half the warhead and are 50% bigger, which means 50% slower firing speed. These are still better-designed, but not as dramatically so as the raw hit chance would suggest.
The overly-large warhead is part of the reason that I consider those missiles to be poorly designed. A large bang is useful ONLY (and this is important!) if the missile can first catch and then hit the target.
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The overly-large warhead is part of the reason that I consider those missiles to be poorly designed. A large bang is useful ONLY (and this is important!) if the missile can first catch and then hit the target.
Well, yeah, sure, but small baby fingers hitting a ship incessantly wont do any damage at all. It would be better to unite those two things together, and considering my current tech I think it is acceptably feasible.
Here is an example of what I can do now: (I wont build these, since I'm almost finishing the next level of missile and engine tech)
Missile Size: 4 MSP (0.2 HS) Warhead: 16 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 15
Speed: 20000 km/s Endurance: 37 minutes Range: 45.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 5.4583
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 300% 3k km/s 90% 5k km/s 60% 10k km/s 30%
Materials Required: 4x Tritanium 1.5633x Gallicite Fuel x1750
Overall it ain't all that good, but considering that the bastards move at 9000km/s I would say that I have a 32-35% chance of hitting something and this is definitely better than 14% chance to hit. And with the next level of engines (I'll get MagCon now) it will be a whole lotta better.
Oh yeah, I managed to get the Survey ships out of the system somehow, granted it layed low for more than 5 months but atleast it got out.
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The overly-large warhead is part of the reason that I consider those missiles to be poorly designed. A large bang is useful ONLY (and this is important!) if the missile can first catch and then hit the target.
Well, yes, the warhead is too big. Still, though, it's a numbers game. You want to maximize (warhead size*hit chance) - a strength 10 warhead with a 5% hit chance is better than a size 1 bang with a 45% hit chance. (Those particular figures, of course, will never come up in any game, ever, but that's besides the point.
Well, yeah, sure, but small baby fingers hitting a ship incessantly wont do any damage at all.
Yes it will. Small missiles make little pockmarks in the target's armor, and if you stack enough craters on top of each other you make holes. Missiles that hit the holes start breaking important things. Star swarm soldiers are small, so it doesn't take too many missiles before they start overlapping. Three size 8 warheads have a pretty good chance of killing a soldier, and I'm pretty sure a fourth will do it guaranteed.
It would be better to unite those two things together, and considering my current tech I think it is acceptably feasible.
Here is an example of what I can do now: (I wont build these, since I'm almost finishing the next level of missile and engine tech)
Missile Size: 4 MSP (0.2 HS) Warhead: 16 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 15
Speed: 20000 km/s Endurance: 37 minutes Range: 45.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 5.4583
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 300% 3k km/s 90% 5k km/s 60% 10k km/s 30%
Materials Required: 4x Tritanium 1.5633x Gallicite Fuel x1750
Overall it ain't all that good, but considering that the bastards move at 9000km/s I would say that I have a 32-35% chance of hitting something and this is definitely better than 14% chance to hit. And with the next level of engines (I'll get MagCon now) it will be a whole lotta better.
...What's your warhead tech? That is a ridiculously big warhead for a size 4 missile. The way I see it, you should never dedicate more than half a missile's tonnage to warhead, and if you're only now getting magneto-plasma drives, I doubt you have 8xMSP warheads. (Or at least, you shouldn't. Much better things to spend the RP on, like getting better engines sooner.)
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Much better things to spend the RP on, like getting better engines sooner.
... or even fuel efficiency, a very cheap tech which translates directly to larger warheads or better accuracy.
No? Higher fuel efficiency means that your missiles need to carry less fuel to reach the designated range, which allows you to devote some of that displacement to Agility, Engine or Warhead instead.
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Well, yes, the warhead is too big. Still, though, it's a numbers game. You want to maximize (warhead size*hit chance) - a strength 10 warhead with a 5% hit chance is better than a size 1 bang with a 45% hit chance. (Those particular figures, of course, will never come up in any game, ever, but that's besides the point.
Yes it will. Small missiles make little pockmarks in the target's armor, and if you stack enough craters on top of each other you make holes. Missiles that hit the holes start breaking important things. Star swarm soldiers are small, so it doesn't take too many missiles before they start overlapping. Three size 8 warheads have a pretty good chance of killing a soldier, and I'm pretty sure a fourth will do it guaranteed.
...What's your warhead tech? That is a ridiculously big warhead for a size 4 missile. The way I see it, you should never dedicate more than half a missile's tonnage to warhead, and if you're only now getting magneto-plasma drives, I doubt you have 8xMSP warheads. (Or at least, you shouldn't. Much better things to spend the RP on, like getting better engines sooner.)
It took me more than 7 years to get where I got - I'm pretty sure that I should be here even sooner. (Most of it thought, can be attributed to the AI, who apparently put around than 60000 RP in the Reseach increase tech, which is why I was so bad in the other techs)
Well, I didn't mean no damage, I meant more like veeery little damage - I want to take out someone with 5 missiles not 500. (I know I'm exaggerating here)
I put 2.1 in Warhead if I remember correctly, I didn't save the design, but now I got the MagCon Fusion drives, which took a hugely boringly long time to get. I do have 8x Missile warhead thought, and I got it from the reason stated above.
Anyway, I think I'm finally ready to catch the bugs! I made 3 new designs based in: my current shipyard capabilities, on my personal specifications and on my current technological prowess.. So here it is:
The Main Brawler:
Sol class Missile Destroyer 9.000 tons 928 Crew 1547 BP TCS 180 TH 875 EM 0
4861 km/s Armour 3-38 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 60
Maint Life 0,48 Years MSP 107 AFR 648% IFR 9% 1YR 223 5YR 3351 Max Repair 62 MSP
Magazine 944
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E7 (M) (7) Power 125 Fuel Use 70% Signature 125 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500.000 Litres Range 142,9 billion km (340 days at full power)
Size 4 Missile Launcher (15) Missile Size 4 Rate of Fire 25
Missile Fire Control FC57-R80 (2) Range 57,9m km Resolution 80
ASM-22 Kharak (236) Speed: 27.500 km/s End: 26,5m Range: 43,7m km WH: 16 Size: 4 TH: 146 / 88 / 44
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
The AM Escort/AS Frigate:
Starton Eridani class Missile Frigate 6.000 tons 604 Crew 1096,1 BP TCS 120 TH 625 EM 0
5208 km/s Armour 1-29 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 35
Maint Life 1,13 Years MSP 114 AFR 288% IFR 4% 1YR 91 5YR 1367 Max Repair 62 MSP
Magazine 715
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E7 (M) (5) Power 125 Fuel Use 70% Signature 125 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 350.000 Litres Range 150,0 billion km (333 days at full power)
Size 1 Missile Launcher (15) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Size 4 Missile Launcher (5) Missile Size 4 Rate of Fire 25
Missile Fire Control FC57-R80 (1) Range 57,9m km Resolution 80
Missile Fire Control FC6-R1 (AMM) (3) Range 6,5m km Resolution 1
ASM-22 Kharak (100) Speed: 27.500 km/s End: 26,5m Range: 43,7m km WH: 16 Size: 4 TH: 146 / 88 / 44
AMM-67 Tanis (315) Speed: 30.000 km/s End: 3m Range: 5,4m km WH: 4 Size: 1 TH: 280 / 168 / 84
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
And the Sensor ship, which is basicly a big sensor array with engines:
Aquila class Command Ship 3.000 tons 267 Crew 971,9 BP TCS 60 TH 750 EM 0
12500 km/s Armour 1-18 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 0
Maint Life 2,74 Years MSP 202 AFR 72% IFR 1% 1YR 39 5YR 581 Max Repair 144 MSP
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E7 (M) (6) Power 125 Fuel Use 70% Signature 125 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 650.000 Litres Range 557,1 billion km (515 days at full power)
Active Search Sensor MR86-R100 (1) GPS 14400 Range 86,4m km Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR5-R1 (1) GPS 90 Range 5,4m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR57-R80 (1) GPS 8640 Range 58,0m km Resolution 80
Active Search Sensor MR17-R16 (1) GPS 1152 Range 17,3m km Resolution 16
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
The Escorts won't be in the same TG as the Destroyers, for obvious reasons.
I think that these ships will be at least capable of taking down a soldier.
Tell me what you guys think.
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On a quick scan I caught a couple of possible problems. On your main combatant the fire control resolution is 80. Your anticipated target is 16. This is going to severly reduce your ability to lock on to them and fire at them. The same rules for seeing a ship apply to the missile fire control so your actual range is going to be around 4% of normal or 2-3 million km. If the resolution was reduced down to 16 and you upped the size by 1 hull space you would probably get about the same max range as your current fire control but have it be effective against much smaller ships. If you need to reduce your launchers to 12 and put in an extra fire control as well. One thing I like to do for all missile combatants is to give them 1 fire control at resolution 1 so they can be loaded with counter missiles if needed. This is definately under the my preference rule however and is not a problem.
The second item that caught my attention is your escort. You left 5 size 4 launchers on it, but you have a really tiny magazine. You are going to need a bigger magazine so I would recommend removing the size 4 launchers and replacing them with magazines and maybe with doubling the size of your antimissile fire control. Currently your res 1 fire control will only be able to see a size 6 or smaller missile when it gets to around .7m km. This is a little close for my tastes and at a minimum only allows for 1 counter fire from your launchers.
Brian
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Yeah, you need to rework the fire controls. And keep in mind, two hits with those missiles will knock off a soldier every time, so launching more than four in a salvo is a waste of ammo. (I think there's even a slight chance of destroying one in a single hit if it knocks out the engines and they explode, but you certainly shouldn't count on that.) Consider dropping two launchers and adding a third firecon.
That R80 sensor on your command ship is pretty useless. There's little if anything it'll spot before the R100 sensor does.
Do you have any EW techs? At your current tech level you really should. ECM is not that effective against missiles, since it only reduces the maximum range of missile fire controls and is easily compensated for by making larger firecons, but it's very useful against beam weapons, since it applies a flat reduction to their hit chance (which results in an effective range loss, as well).
Your escorts actually do need to go in the same TF as your destroyers. Point defense is much more effective if the PD launcher is on top of the ship being defended, and sensors are likewise more useful there. This means, of course, that they'll need more armor. (Armor is actually useless against Star Swarm, of course, but you'll want them to be able to fight other threats effectively, as well.)
I like to add a small backup sensor to all my warships so that they're not left helpless if the sensor ship dies, but that's just personal preference.
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On a quick scan I caught a couple of possible problems. On your main combatant the fire control resolution is 80. Your anticipated target is 16. This is going to severly reduce your ability to lock on to them and fire at them. The same rules for seeing a ship apply to the missile fire control so your actual range is going to be around 4% of normal or 2-3 million km. If the resolution was reduced down to 16 and you upped the size by 1 hull space you would probably get about the same max range as your current fire control but have it be effective against much smaller ships. If you need to reduce your launchers to 12 and put in an extra fire control as well. One thing I like to do for all missile combatants is to give them 1 fire control at resolution 1 so they can be loaded with counter missiles if needed. This is definately under the my preference rule however and is not a problem.
The second item that caught my attention is your escort. You left 5 size 4 launchers on it, but you have a really tiny magazine. You are going to need a bigger magazine so I would recommend removing the size 4 launchers and replacing them with magazines and maybe with doubling the size of your antimissile fire control. Currently your res 1 fire control will only be able to see a size 6 or smaller missile when it gets to around .7m km. This is a little close for my tastes and at a minimum only allows for 1 counter fire from your launchers.
Brian
Ah, moar flaws... Thanks for the Input. I redesigned the ships according to what you said, I hope it can kill.
But, I got good news (of a sort) and bad news. The good one is that I found new aliens. They are friendly, thought they are little more than cannon fodder, and their gigantic (22000 tons) ships will certainly be a good Mineral injection to the Swarm's... navy, if we can call it that.
I don't know how I did it, but I managed to put everything you said was needed; (right?) only took out one Missile Launcher, put more ammo, and the right resolution to take out the bastards.
I made the Sol Destroyer, thinking more about the Queen, I would let the frigates take out the Soldiers with the AMMs but even I had my doubts that it would work:
Sol class Missile Destroyer 9.000 tons 886 Crew 1747,4 BP TCS 180 TH 1000 EM 0
5555 km/s Armour 1-38 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 48
Maint Life 0,52 Years MSP 121 AFR 648% IFR 9% 1YR 234 5YR 3517 Max Repair 72 MSP
Magazine 1068
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E7 (M) (8) Power 125 Fuel Use 70% Signature 125 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 600.000 Litres Range 171,4 billion km (357 days at full power)
Size 4 Missile Launcher (12) Missile Size 4 Rate of Fire 25
Missile Fire Control FC51-R16 (AFAC) (3) Range 51,8m km Resolution 16
Missile Fire Control FC57-R80 (3) Range 57,9m km Resolution 80
ASM-22 Kharak (267) Speed: 27.500 km/s End: 26,5m Range: 43,7m km WH: 16 Size: 4 TH: 146 / 88 / 44
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Starton Eridani class Escort Frigate 6.000 tons 462 Crew 1281,6 BP TCS 120 TH 625 EM 0
5208 km/s Armour 1-29 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 15
Maint Life 0,86 Years MSP 134 AFR 288% IFR 4% 1YR 156 5YR 2338 Max Repair 72 MSP
Magazine 899
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E7 (M) (5) Power 125 Fuel Use 70% Signature 125 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400.000 Litres Range 171,4 billion km (380 days at full power)
Size 1 Missile Launcher (15) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC12-R1 (AMM) (3) Range 13,0m km Resolution 1
Missile Fire Control FC51-R16 (AFAC) (3) Range 51,8m km Resolution 16
AMM-67 Tanis (899) Speed: 30.000 km/s End: 3m Range: 5,4m km WH: 4 Size: 1 TH: 280 / 168 / 84
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
So... better?
Yeah, you need to rework the fire controls. And keep in mind, two hits with those missiles will knock off a soldier every time, so launching more than four in a salvo is a waste of ammo. (I think there's even a slight chance of destroying one in a single hit if it knocks out the engines and they explode, but you certainly shouldn't count on that.) Consider dropping two launchers and adding a third firecon.
That R80 sensor on your command ship is pretty useless. There's little if anything it'll spot before the R100 sensor does.
Do you have any EW techs? At your current tech level you really should. ECM is not that effective against missiles, since it only reduces the maximum range of missile fire controls and is easily compensated for by making larger firecons, but it's very useful against beam weapons, since it applies a flat reduction to their hit chance (which results in an effective range loss, as well).
Your escorts actually do need to go in the same TF as your destroyers. Point defense is much more effective if the PD launcher is on top of the ship being defended, and sensors are likewise more useful there. This means, of course, that they'll need more armor. (Armor is actually useless against Star Swarm, of course, but you'll want them to be able to fight other threats effectively, as well.)
I like to add a small backup sensor to all my warships so that they're not left helpless if the sensor ship dies, but that's just personal preference.
Really? Two missiles? Just that? But, well, I have to take out the queen too, and I'm pretty sure that she will get me some pretty hefty research bonuses. No EW tech, I rushed everything I could in Missile, Research Improvement, Sensor and Propulsion techs so I don't really have it now.
The Escorts wouldn't go with the Destroyers because of the Speed differences, but now that I took care of it (sorta) they will be on the same TG. And I can't really put more Armor on my ships without further research, one singe level of armor on the Destroyer added like 300 tons to the ship's mass; When I got it back to level 1, I saved like, 900-1000 tons of mass.
I don't know it helps but the Meson Cannons of the Soldiers only reach like 60000 km. I guess that if I had ECM level 3 it would be down to 15-30k right?
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honestly if you are fighting swarm you don't need armor anyway, since all their weapons ignore it anyway.
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Sol class Missile Destroyer 9.000 tons 886 Crew 1747,4 BP TCS 180 TH 1000 EM 0
5555 km/s Armour 1-38 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 48
Maint Life 0,52 Years MSP 121 AFR 648% IFR 9% 1YR 234 5YR 3517 Max Repair 72 MSP
Magazine 1068
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E7 (M) (8) Power 125 Fuel Use 70% Signature 125 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 600.000 Litres Range 171,4 billion km (357 days at full power)
Size 4 Missile Launcher (12) Missile Size 4 Rate of Fire 25
Missile Fire Control FC51-R16 (AFAC) (3) Range 51,8m km Resolution 16
Missile Fire Control FC57-R80 (3) Range 57,9m km Resolution 80
ASM-22 Kharak (267) Speed: 27.500 km/s End: 26,5m Range: 43,7m km WH: 16 Size: 4 TH: 146 / 88 / 44
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Starton Eridani class Escort Frigate 6.000 tons 462 Crew 1281,6 BP TCS 120 TH 625 EM 0
5208 km/s Armour 1-29 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 15
Maint Life 0,86 Years MSP 134 AFR 288% IFR 4% 1YR 156 5YR 2338 Max Repair 72 MSP
Magazine 899
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E7 (M) (5) Power 125 Fuel Use 70% Signature 125 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400.000 Litres Range 171,4 billion km (380 days at full power)
Size 1 Missile Launcher (15) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC12-R1 (AMM) (3) Range 13,0m km Resolution 1
Missile Fire Control FC51-R16 (AFAC) (3) Range 51,8m km Resolution 16
AMM-67 Tanis (899) Speed: 30.000 km/s End: 3m Range: 5,4m km WH: 4 Size: 1 TH: 280 / 168 / 84
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
So... better?
Yes, but a few points still:
The R80 firecons on your destroyer are all but useless. The R16 fire controls have nearly as much range.
Your escort only needs one AFAC firecon. When you're shooting at an FAC, you'll want to launch with every tube.
I don't know it helps but the Meson Cannons of the Soldiers only reach like 60000 km. I guess that if I had ECM level 3 it would be down to 15-30k right?
It's 100000km, IIRC. And the range is limited not by the fire control, but the beam itself. ECM reduces the effective range of the fire control, but the beam's range is unaffected. ECM will, however, reduce the hit chance.
Keep in mind, though, if the guy shooting you has ECCM equal to or better than your ECM, your ECM will be totally negated. IIRC, soldiers have ECM 3 but no ECCM, but it may be the other way around. Or they may have both.
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Xkill, you might want to reconsider those missiles for the next generation. That big 16 point warhead looks great as a damage dealer but it is handicapping your hit probabilities. If you cut back to an 8 point warhead you should be able to keep the range approximately the same and increase you hit chance from 44% to 100% vs a 10,000 kps target and have the missile travelling around 62,500 kps making it significantly more difficult target to intercept.
With your current design it takes more than 3 missiles to have a statistical chance of 1 hit for 16 points of damage. With my suggested changes you have 3 hits for a total of 24 points of damage. Against small targets like FAC's the spread of the hits isn't significant enough to be of concern.
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So, I got Steamrolled, not by the New Aliens or by the Swarm (actually it was by the Swarm... sorta) but by the game itself. I think they grew up so much that the game could'nt count their ships anymore. Or atleast the ones in production. After all they got holed up in there for more than 14 years!
Apparently, there is a error with the Swarm guys, every 30 day or 5 day increment (The only reasonably 'fast' increments... Any, increment really) there is a Error 3265 on Swarm Colony Production which creates about a thousand error boxes, and will sadly cause me to discontinue this game.
Atleast I made to 17 years (2042), had about 12 civilian ships, and 8 ships of my own, and is the fartest I made in any Aurora game! Yay me! I could'nt even test the damm ships... sigh.
I thank you all who gave me such helpful tips and explanations, and wish you luck in this incredbly addicting, but equaly buggy game.
Oh yeah, one more thing; won't the Range of the sensors go down if a ship is larger than the previously selected resolution?
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I thank you all who gave me such helpful tips and explanations, and wish you luck in this incredbly addicting, but equaly buggy game.
Oh yeah, one more thing; won't the Range of the sensors go down if a ship is larger than the previously selected resolution?
Save a copy of the game, Steve may be able to fix the problem for you, or one of the other db guru's on the list might be able to do so.
As for the sensor range, the resolution is a minimum size to get full use of your sensors range. Any target larger than the resolution will be detected at that range. The only time you have a drop off is when the target is smaller than the resolution.
Brian
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Save a copy of the game, Steve may be able to fix the problem for you, or one of the other db guru's on the list might be able to do so.
As for the sensor range, the resolution is a minimum size to get full use of your sensors range. Any target larger than the resolution will be detected at that range. The only time you have a drop off is when the target is smaller than the resolution.
Brian
So, following what you said, depending on the range of the sensor or firecon, I only need the R16 ones since they would detect anything that is larger than the selected resolution? Cool!
I'll save it, but how do I submit it for someone to fix?
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I'll save it, but how do I submit it for someone to fix?
Wait and see if anyone volunteers. It is a bit of a long shot but you never know.
Brian
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Apparently, there is a error with the Swarm guys, every 30 day or 5 day increment (The only reasonably 'fast' increments... Any, increment really) there is a Error 3265 on Swarm Colony Production which creates about a thousand error boxes, and will sadly cause me to discontinue this game.
That error is fixed in v5.60
Steve
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That error is fixed in v5.60
Steve
Then it is just better to scratch the buggy game, upgrade to the new version and pray that something bad doens't happen.
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Note: The 0.5 maintenance lifetime on the Sol destroyers will be crippling for anything other than purely insystem defensive purposes.
As a general rule, I prefer to have a minimum of 2x the minimum repair and/or 3 years.