NC Part 18: September 2050 - February 2051

[Centerfed]

Randy:
And shouldn't the name be changed to the Fourth Reich?

Don't want to be TOO obvious now.  Besides, that was the point of my flag question a few posts back.  Heh.

I had an idea that their true leader could be religious, like the Islamics.  So, the true capital could be the Vatican.

Heil Bennie!  

HD

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Centerfed wrote:
How does one access the Race Relations window without using a function key?HD

Empires -> Diplomacy on the main menu bar Steve

Oh.  That.  I knew that, but didn't know that was what you wanted it called.  I read it as Communications and Diplomacy since that was the window title at the top.  Confusing.HD

Sorry, I called it the Relations windows because the form file is frmRelations.frm in VB

Steve

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

And shouldn't the name be changed to the Fourth Reich instead of Terran Reich

Steve

[Kurt]

Kurt, I am saying that I had a problem with the philosophical attiude in Starfire that everything had to be conquered or assimilated.

I had a problem with the tendency towards absolute monarchies in Starfire, in order to have a justification for every piece obeying the Micromanging Emperor to the last twitch.  Democracy and silly concerns about treaties were regarded as obstacles to the expansion of empire that would only be adhered to for sentimental reasons.

I understand your problem with this, but you must understand that these things you list above are player issues, and don't necessarily have anything to do with the rules.  The impetous towards conquest and/or assimilation can be foudn in almost every 4X game around.    

Yes, I understand it is a game, and it is about combat and expansion, and I really enjoyed Dan Preston's Orc race stories (whatever happened to them?) but it bothers me a bit.

I am not terribly bothered by the underhanded way the Commonwealth dealt with the Terran Union.  That involved the destruction of a naval vessel, not civilian populations.  US and USSR subs played a dangerous game of chicken during the Cold War.  Some subs were lost as a result of accidents from playing too hard.

Here we disagree.  The Commonwealth did something which they knew could and would be considered an act of war, and their actions could and should be considered willful murder illegally sanctioned by a head of state.  US and Soviet subs acting aggressively towards each other is different, in degree and intent.

I like the idea of wars being a bit similar to that of the Age of Sail.  Nobody is going to be marching into the enemy Capitals any time soon, but they are going to skirmish and jockey for position whenever they can get away with it.

The Pieksamaki Republic battles remind me of gunboat diplomacy.  Sometimes it works, and sometimes, as the Asians found with respect to Gitanyow, it doesn't.

Gunboat diplomacy only works when one side is completely superior.  The Asians weren't, and as you pointed out they found that out the hard way.  

Aurora does have a different feel to it, that is for sure.  Given the lack of anything resembling an ICN, Aurora will be more conducive to an environment remeniscent of the Age of Sail.  Of course, in reality there is a drawback to this situation.  The longer the travel/communications time in between colonies, the harder it is to tie disparate populations together into a cohesive civilization.  

Kurt

[Kurt]

Very interesting.  Diplomacy is a bit more powerful and flexible in Aurora than in Starfire.  Races aren't monoliths completely controlled by the player, and are understandably reluctant to engage in policies that would result in significant damage if it can be avoided.

That's because there is currently no rules for diplomacy, which by definition makes it a more powerful and flexible situation, because whatever Steve wants to happen, happens.Kurt

Just checking here but I assume you are aware that there are quite extensive diplomatic rules in Aurora. See the Relations Window (Ctrl-F5)

Steve

I wasn't sure, but I am fairly sure that you aren't using the diplomatic rules for the interactions between the Commonwealth, the Union, the Islamics, and the Asians.  

Kurt

[Centerfed]

I wasn't sure, but I am fairly sure that you aren't using the diplomatic rules for the interactions between the Commonwealth, the Union, the Islamics, and the Asians.  

Kurt

Anyone betting on when the inevitable nuclear general exchange will occur on Earth in Nemesis?  I give it about one year before it happens, tops.  :roll: ) and analysis as the Commonwealth (Coms), they would have figured out what was happening as easily as the Coms has been doing.

Look how the Coms have known exactly what every other powers' ships can do, what they are armed with, etc.

The Coms know every time one of the other powers put a ship in for demothballing or construction.

Can't the other powers spy on the Coms shipyards, too?  If they could, they should have a pretty darn good idea of what the fleets of the Coms look like.

They should know how far they've fallen behind the Coms in technology.

They should know the Coms' ships' capabilities, and should have been able to predict when certain things were happening.

Like, the colonization of Thebes.  How could the Coms have been able to hide what they were up to?  Even lacking knowledge of the capacity of the Coms' colony ships, yanking a million-plus people out of the economy should be noticable to foreign agents.  Especially since I doubt that the Coms are shipping out the homeless and skilless (a section of a book by Douglas Adams comes to mind...  )

HD

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Just checking here but I assume you are aware that there are quite extensive diplomatic rules in Aurora. See the Relations Window (Ctrl-F5)

I wasn't sure, but I am fairly sure that you aren't using the diplomatic rules for the interactions between the Commonwealth, the Union, the Islamics, and the Asians.   Kurt

No, that was too complex. However, all of the treaties and trades with the Gitanyow and Pieksamaki used Aurora's diplomatic and trading windows. The diplomacy is not yet complete but its already far more extensive than anything in Starfire or SA.

Steve

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Something I've been wondering about is how the Commonwealth got the upper hand in the espionage/analysis game.

If the other powers had as good intelligence (either kind   ) and analysis as the Commonwealth (Coms), they would have figured out what was happening as easily as the Coms has been doing.

Look how the Coms have known exactly what every other powers' ships can do, what they are armed with, etc.
HD

That isn't part of the game but part of the fiction. The 'observation satellites' and 'Commonwealth Intelligence' etc are just my way of telling the reader what is happening with the other races.

As far as other races watching Commonwealth shipyards, etc. They must realise the Commonwealth are colonising a planet in the same way the Commonwealth knows the Terrans are colonising one in Athens. Other races will also be monitoring Commonwealth ship movements in the same way as the Islamics figured out when to attack the Terrans.

Steve

[Centerfed]

Centerfed wrote:
Something I've been wondering about is how the Commonwealth got the upper hand in the espionage/analysis game.

If the other powers had as good intelligence (either kind  ) and analysis as the Commonwealth (Coms), they would have figured out what was happening as easily as the Coms has been doing.

Look how the Coms have known exactly what every other powers' ships can do, what they are armed with, etc.
HD

Steve:
That isn't part of the game but part of the fiction. The 'observation satellites' and 'Commonwealth Intelligence' etc are just my way of telling the reader what is happening with the other races.

As far as other races watching Commonwealth shipyards, etc. They must realise the Commonwealth are colonising a planet in the same way the Commonwealth knows the Terrans are colonising one in Athens. Other races will also be monitoring Commonwealth ship movements in the same way as the Islamics figured out when to attack the Terrans.

Steve,
In the fiction, then, don't the other powers have observation satellites and secret agents, too?

All we've seen to indicate covert activity from other powers have been a fairly ham-fisted assassination attempt (I think).  Granted, a good black op is not found out about for decades (if ever).

Maybe the other powers need to invest in some of those cyber teams (automated mine stealers) that you mentioned that you were going to code into Aurora soon.  

HD

[Doug Olchefske]

Should the new Terran Reich flag be #0143, 0151 or 0152?  

Not to mention Race120.

[TrueZuluwiz]

What about Species 8265?

[khagler]

Centerfed wrote:
All we've seen to indicate covert activity from other powers have been a fairly ham-fisted assassination attempt (I think).  Granted, a good black op is not found out about for decades (if ever).

That wasn't from another power--that was a ham-fisted false flag operation that Prince Arthur used as the excuse for his coup.  

[Centerfed]

Centerfed wrote:
All we've seen to indicate covert activity from other powers have been a fairly ham-fisted assassination attempt (I think). Granted, a good black op is not found out about for decades (if ever).
 
khagler wrote:
That wasn't from another power--that was a ham-fisted false flag operation that Prince Arthur used as the excuse for his coup.

Which underlines my point.  Only the Commonwealth seems to have an effective spy network and accurate analysts.

What's next?  A shuttle 'malfunction' during re-entry that kills...oh yeah.  Been done before.  

HD

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

In the fiction, then, don't the other powers have observation satellites and secret agents, too?

All we've seen to indicate covert activity from other powers have been a fairly ham-fisted assassination attempt (I think).  Granted, a good black op is not found out about for decades (if ever).

Maybe the other powers need to invest in some of those cyber teams (automated mine stealers) that you mentioned that you were going to code into Aurora soon.   HD

As I said, the observation satellites are a fiction device but do apply equally to all races. Although the Commonwealth doesn't know any more about the other races than they know about it, you only hear about what the Commonwealth thinks about other races because the story is from the point of view of the Commonwealth. The fiction can't contains what other races know about the Commonwealth because that is only from their point of view. The Commonwealth doesn't have a game advantage because the fiction is from its perspective.

Steve

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Centerfed wrote:
All we've seen to indicate covert activity from other powers have been a fairly ham-fisted assassination attempt (I think).  Granted, a good black op is not found out about for decades (if ever).

That wasn't from another power--that was a ham-fisted false flag operation that Prince Arthur used as the excuse for his coup.  

Steve