Author Topic: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions  (Read 351840 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Jorgen_CAB

  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • ***********
  • J
  • Posts: 2837
  • Thanked: 673 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #810 on: December 26, 2018, 04:23:26 AM »
Why have any mechanics at all then?  I mean, what is the purpose of anything in the game if you can just SM or imagine it all?

I'm happy SM is a feature, but the more mechanics Aurora supports on its own, the better.

To be honest I would rather like to have a good civilian mechanic before we get anything close to a pirate mechanic. As long as there are no real civilian mechanic in Aurora any pirate mechanic would just feel very artificial.
 
The following users thanked this post: Scandinavian, Agoelia

Offline Zincat

  • Captain
  • **********
  • Z
  • Posts: 566
  • Thanked: 111 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #811 on: December 26, 2018, 06:26:39 AM »
What Jorgen said. Frankly as the game is now, there's simply no way you can justify the presence of pirates.
And as Steve said before, you'd basically have to make them a mini faction, with shipyards, facilities, habitats/colonies and such.

Pirates in a sci-fi setting only work if the setting is huge, with hundreds of worls/systems at the very least. Thousands is better to be even remotely plausible. Anything smaller, and you cannot justify piracy because there's simply not enough trade to justify piracy, not enough explored systems to justify the military not finding such pirates, and just no reason for pirates to exist. Let's say Pirate Group A harasses a trade ship and steals trade commodities. So what? What are they going to do with that? Keep it all to themselves? Come to your worlds to sell it? How are they even going to hide, considering there's literally a few hundred ships at MOST in the entire space? What are they goign to eat, were are they going to buy necessities and spare parts?

You just cannot say: Oh look, somehow military ships from our race appeared. And yes, we have a grand total of three shipyards, so who knows who built them. They just magically came into existance somehow. And they're pirates! YARRRR.

Piracy can work in something like Star Wars, because you have literally hundreds of millions of inhabited systems and millions of billions of starships flying around between them. Also, all of this has been around for millennias. So it is plausible that there's hidden bases around, or hijacked ships, or places where you can sell stolen goods. And that pirates can hide and pretend to be traders in order to smuggle goods, because once again, they can simply "hide" most of the time amongst normal traders and such. And in fact a setting like Star Wars, huge as it is, also has semi independet enclaves, mercenaries and the like. And that can be justified, because once again the sheer size and age of the settings makes it plausible.

In Aurora you have a civilization that has been around at most for a few decades, and that maybe produced 2-300 ships total. The scale of the game does not allow for realistic pirates.
What you could possibily justify is a colony/system that went rogue and seceded from the home planet, and wages low-intensity war on its homeworlds by harassing from time to time. All the while, being careful they don't ever become a problem big enough to justify the homeworlds coming in guns blazing and reconquering the secessionists.
But such a scenario cannot and should not be just a random "chance". At the moment and with the structure of Aurora it's truly best modeled via SM.
 
The following users thanked this post: Scandinavian, Agoelia

Offline misanthropope

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • m
  • Posts: 274
  • Thanked: 73 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #812 on: December 26, 2018, 08:54:22 AM »
choke points and stupid huge detection ranges make pirates IMO untenable in aurora, but the shipyard claim is demonstrably false.  civilian shipping originates from secret shipyards, and given the rapid response to subsidizing the civvies, that shipyard network is extensive and advanced.
 
The following users thanked this post: Agoelia

Offline Barkhorn

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • B
  • Posts: 719
  • Thanked: 133 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #813 on: December 26, 2018, 11:55:23 AM »
About detection ranges, in real life pirates aren't hard to stop because you can't spot their ships.  They're hard to stop because you can't tell which ships are pirate ships and which ships are civilian.

I've said it before, but I think Aurora really could benefit from having multiple levels of detection.  Just because you can see a ship shouldn't give you exactly what class it is.
 

Offline joeclark77

  • Commander
  • *********
  • j
  • Posts: 359
  • Thanked: 3 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #814 on: December 26, 2018, 01:44:26 PM »
So for piracy to be realistic, the government structure of Aurora would need to change to have much less of a "hive mind" model (referring to a conversation a year or so back about how much micro-ing players should do and how much control they should have over details of the empire - hive mind is 100% centralized control/microing) for the parts of the civilization - the pirates would "swim in the populace".  In this model, civilians would have exploration ships that would search for habitable worlds, and when they found them the civies would start their own colonies, with or without government assistance.  Those colonies wouldn't be part of your empire unless regularly visited by your military forces, and would act against the empire's interest if the player's back is turned. 

I do really like the idea of civilians independently building colonies that the government doesn't control.  I find that in my games I like to be quite deliberate in which systems I expand to, so I can place maintenance facilities, PDCs, fuel harvesters, etc., and defend the border as I move it forward.  Civilians would mess up my plans by settling in any old system that had a 2.0 world, adding to the challenge by reducing my control.  Maybe it's not Aurora but it would be a neat game.
 

Offline joeclark77

  • Commander
  • *********
  • j
  • Posts: 359
  • Thanked: 3 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #815 on: December 26, 2018, 01:45:54 PM »
Another suggestion: can we get an option to use miles instead of kilometers, knots instead of km/s, and gallons instead of litres?  The metric system implies a dystopian future and I prefer to imagine a future where the good guys win.  ;)

It's only a matter of time.
The metric system will eventually replace the imperial one.
Surrender yourself, resistance is futile.

Remind me... whose 3x5-foot flag is on the moon?
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

  • Moderator
  • Star Marshal
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 11671
  • Thanked: 20451 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #816 on: December 26, 2018, 02:12:20 PM »
Another suggestion: can we get an option to use miles instead of kilometers, knots instead of km/s, and gallons instead of litres?  The metric system implies a dystopian future and I prefer to imagine a future where the good guys win.  ;)

You can display miles on the VB6 system view. I might add the same for C#

I grew up with the Imperial system and understand it in detail. All the road signs here are in miles, not kilometres. Body weight is measured in Stones (14 Pounds per Stone). BTW did you know a cricket pitch is 22 yards long because that is a Chain? 10 Chains in  Furlong, 8 Furlongs in a mile.

However, having said that, the metric system is so much easier to work with than Imperial, so I suspect that long-term, regardless of nostalgia for Imperial, metric is going to win out. Besides, even if I did use Imperial, I would use English tons and English gallons, not Americans tons or American gallons :)
 
The following users thanked this post: Retropunch, joeclark77, DIT_grue, Graham, Agoelia

Offline Garfunkel

  • Registered
  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2794
  • Thanked: 1054 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #817 on: December 27, 2018, 04:11:24 AM »
Resistance is futile, all will be assimilated to the Metric-Borgness.

 
The following users thanked this post: Agoelia

Offline Whitecold

  • Commander
  • *********
  • W
  • Posts: 330
  • Thanked: 88 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #818 on: December 27, 2018, 10:41:27 AM »
I do really like the idea of civilians independently building colonies that the government doesn't control.  I find that in my games I like to be quite deliberate in which systems I expand to, so I can place maintenance facilities, PDCs, fuel harvesters, etc., and defend the border as I move it forward.  Civilians would mess up my plans by settling in any old system that had a 2.0 world, adding to the challenge by reducing my control.  Maybe it's not Aurora but it would be a neat game.

Maybe going for the planets is the wrong approach. But I could see civilians building infrastructure in any system you have a colony, or is between systems you have a colony. Various industrial plants/asteroid miners going for iron/non-transnewtonian resources, small utility craft/yachts/engieering vessels flying between these sites...
these could all generate wealth, and would present raiding targets, or a backdrop for pirates/privateers. (you should have a flag to ban commercial activity in a system)
 

Offline Barkhorn

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • B
  • Posts: 719
  • Thanked: 133 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #819 on: December 27, 2018, 01:56:45 PM »
Suggestion: Some kind of forward observer module for fighters.  In real life, air assets are often used to direct fire support.  Why not in Aurora?
 

Offline Scandinavian

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • S
  • Posts: 158
  • Thanked: 55 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #820 on: December 27, 2018, 03:19:29 PM »
Mechanically that would allow you to operate an effective independent air arm. The better part of a century of military history suggests that this is a pipe dream. And not for lack of trying either - peacetime air forces tend to resent doctrines that center their role around close air support, because they see it as placing them in a subordinate position to mere infantry.
 

Offline backstab

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • b
  • Posts: 169
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #821 on: December 28, 2018, 03:36:07 AM »
Can we have an option to SM in spoiler races ..
Move foward and draw fire
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

  • Moderator
  • Star Marshal
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 11671
  • Thanked: 20451 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #822 on: December 28, 2018, 07:39:30 AM »
Can we have an option to SM in spoiler races ..

Yes, that sounds like a good idea for testing too :)
 
The following users thanked this post: backstab, Titanian

Offline Agoelia

  • Chief Petty Officer
  • ***
  • A
  • Posts: 31
  • Thanked: 5 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #823 on: December 28, 2018, 07:48:42 AM »
Quote from: joeclark77 link=topic=9841. msg111505#msg111505 date=1545853554
Quote from: Seolferwulf link=topic=9841. msg111408#msg111408 date=1545365249
Quote from: joeclark77 link=topic=9841. msg111407#msg111407 date=1545364043
Another suggestion: can we get an option to use miles instead of kilometers, knots instead of km/s, and gallons instead of litres?  The metric system implies a dystopian future and I prefer to imagine a future where the good guys win.   ;)

It's only a matter of time.
The metric system will eventually replace the imperial one.
Surrender yourself, resistance is futile.

Remind me. . .  whose 3x5-foot flag is on the moon?


The USA flag.  Which got there using metrics, not imperials (Nasa mainly uses metrics, and once even lost a probe due to the imperial system inherently complicated conversions).
 

Offline Jovus

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • J
  • Posts: 220
  • Thanked: 81 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #824 on: December 28, 2018, 08:01:11 AM »
The USA flag.  Which got there using metrics, not imperials.

Untrue. NASA used Imperial (American) units and to get to the Moon, and in fact still largely uses them today (much to my chagrin).

This isn't an argument that Imperial or Revolutionary units are better. I'm staying out of that fight, except to mention that as a physicist I prefer the latter for ease of use.