Author Topic: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS  (Read 11011 times)

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Offline Steve Walmsley

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Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« on: January 16, 2010, 05:28:28 PM »
 

Offline AncientSion

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2014, 01:06:38 PM »
Not sure im missing something, but i dont see any text in this post ?!
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2014, 01:18:54 PM »
Looking at the date of the post, it's from a time when the database got moved. Either forum software or domain host. The single quotes in the raw data buggered things up.
 

Offline Robbie

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 02:40:00 PM »
Hello,

I'm pretty new here and I'm collecting all Tutorials in a word doc for easy read, is the post missing the same on AuroraWiki named Beam Overview ?

Thanks  :)

Edit: link missed.
Edit2: sorry it seems I'm not able to insert a link. . .
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 02:51:53 PM by Robbie »
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 03:56:47 PM »
Hello,

I'm pretty new here and I'm collecting all Tutorials in a word doc for easy read, is the post missing the same on AuroraWiki named Beam Overview ?

Thanks  :)

Edit: link missed.
Edit2: sorry it seems I'm not able to insert a link. . .

You can, but it will be munged up for a bit.
 

Offline Robbie

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2014, 04:25:35 AM »
Thanks Erik, in the meantime here the link:
hxxp: aurorawiki. pentarch. org/index. php?title=Beam_Overview

Is it the correct post missing?
 

Offline Mor

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 07:58:45 PM »
In this tutorial, Summary_of_Beam_Weapons_and_CIWS, CIWS mechanics described as follows:

Quote
1) The basic system is a dual half size gauss cannon. As the range is limited to 10,000 km, I have reduced the size slightly from 6HS to 5HS. As it is a dual mount, the rate of fire for the system with therefore be double the racial gauss cannon rate of fire
2) The integral fire control system is assumed to be a 4x speed installation. The normal 4HS size is then divided by (maximum racial fire control range / 10,000) as the CIWS requires a max 10,000 km range. Finally the resulting size is halved to account for the fact this system can only defend the mounting ship, which makes things a lot simpler.
3) Turret gears are added using the normal rules for turrets with a tracking speed equal to that of the above fire control
4) The integral active sensor uses the size that would be required for a resolution-zero installation with a range of 30,000 km. This is longer than the max range of the system but it needs a little tracking time. Note that this is not an active sensor that will detect anything else. It is purely a point blank range missile tracker.
5) If ECCM is available, it can be added to the CIWS and will use 0.5HS. As this is a reduced-sized system, it will have half the capability of the regular system
6) As the gauss cannon are half size, the base chance to hit for the CIWS is 50% (modified by missile speed, crew grade and electronic warfare). This is actually slightly higher than it would be for a half-size gauss cannon with a short-range fire control but I am assuming it fires at even shorter range than other anti-missile systems.

Unfortunately I don't understand how all the CIWS mechanics tied up all together. Specifically:
* Beam Fire Control Range
* Beam Fire Control Tracking Speed
* Active Sensor Strength
* Turret Rotating Gear
* ECCM
None of them seem to effect anything beside size\cost.

P.S. the ECCM entry says 0.5 instead of 0.5HS, and Base Chance to Hit is always 50%
 

Offline iceball3

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2016, 11:58:01 PM »
In this tutorial, Summary_of_Beam_Weapons_and_CIWS, CIWS mechanics described as follows:

Unfortunately I don't understand how all the CIWS mechanics tied up all together. Specifically:
* Beam Fire Control Range
* Beam Fire Control Tracking Speed
* Active Sensor Strength
* Turret Rotating Gear
* ECCM
None of them seem to effect anything beside size\cost.

P.S. the ECCM entry says 0.5 instead of 0.5HS, and Base Chance to Hit is always 50%
Beam fire control range improves the reducibility of the system, due to fire control size multipliers, so it makes the CIWS smaller with higher levels, but doesn't affect cost.

Active sensor strength tech level is essentially the same effect as the beam fire control tech. for CIWS minimization. No differences in cost.

Fire control tracking speed increases the max tracking speed of the turret, which is a very important stat, and directly affects how well it can intercept a fast target. Incoming missiles going at higher speeds than the tracking speed get a large evasion bonus, that can potentially make them impossible to hit if they go too fast. Increasing this makes turret cost and size go up, presumably due to both the increasing cost of higher-tech fire control (doesn't affect the size in this case), and requiring more turret gear to get to the speed needed (which affects cost and size).

In theory, the turret rotation gear means how much tonnage needs to be used to allow the turret in question match the highest speed the fire control tech set will allow you, but directly changing it doesn't seem to do anything. I suspect this specific tech works like the Armor tech level in magazines, where the highest tech available is chosen, rather than giving a choice in the matter.
 

Offline Mor

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2016, 04:35:40 AM »
1. Indeed, 'Beam fire control range' and 'Active sensor strength' reduce the size of their respective components. I just want to confirm whether it has any effect on hit chance, and what was means by "The integral fire control system is assumed to be a 4x speed installation. "

2. I assumed that higher 'Turret Rotating Gear' should increase 'Chance to Hit' on slow ships, but it said that chance to hit is only modified by modified by missile speed, crew grade and electronic warfare. Why crew grade if its autonomous system.

3. ECCM is said to have half the capability. Which means that depending on how its rounded either all the odd or all even values are meaningless. Which is it? 

4. Also, concerning turret tracking speed, those are only taken into account if they are higher than the ships speed, correct?
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 09:24:51 AM »
1.) No effect.  The inbuilt tracking system fires at 1,000 kilometers with 4x your empires maximum tracking speed tech.
2.) Higher tech turret gear reduces the space required to bring the weapon up to 4x tracking speed.  Note that it takes more gear when your empires tracking speed itself increases.
3.) ECM is actually given multiplied by 10; i.e. an ECM 1 gives a ship an ECM score of 10.  Therefore, a half strength ECCM gives an ECCM score of 5 per tech level.
4.) It's irrelevant for CIWS, which will always be turreted.

AFAIK the turret tracking speed is always used if a weapon is mounted in a turret.

Otherwise, the game always uses the higher of the ship's speed or the empire's basic tracking speed tech.  This sets the WEAPON's tracking speed level.   However, what determines the final tracking speed used is still determined by the Beam Fire Control; in other words, the shot will use the lowest tracking speed of either the Fire Control or the Weapon when taking any given shot.

An unturreted laser mounting on an immobile satellite has a tracking speed of 4,000 kms because of it's empire technology.  A fire control with 16,000 kms tracking speed is used to target an enemy ship. The shot is only fired at 4,000 kms because the weapon cannot track faster than that even though the fire control can.  The same applies in the opposite situation of a high-tracking speed weapon and a low-tracking speed fire control.
 

Offline iceball3

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2016, 10:50:59 AM »
4.) It's irrelevant for CIWS, which will always be turreted.
Though, I'd like to note that the weapon (not the entire shot, just the mount) tracking speed may (haven't explicitly tested it but I think this is the case) equal the highest of your empire's Turret Tracking 10% gear, the ship that is moving, or the turret platform speed.
Granted, as you mentioned, it's still irrelevant, mainly because there aren't going to be any commercial designs worth looking at that would be out-speeding your BFC max. Unless you got some real weird research patterns.
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2016, 11:12:37 AM »
I double checked. Turreted weapons always use the turret tracking speed regardless of ship speed.
 

Offline Mor

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2016, 11:20:59 AM »
1. What confuses me is that such beam control, with 4x tracking speed, suppose to be 2 HS not 4HS. And my assumption is that CIWS shouldn't need separate trackers per turret.

2. While higher tech gear reduced turret HS, it has no effect on my CIWS, whether its 1250km/s or 10000km/s  the HS stays (Dual GC: 5HS    Turret: .16 HS    Fire Control: 2 HS    Sensor .3 HS    ECCM: 0, with default techs)

AFAIK the turret tracking speed is always used if a weapon is mounted in a turret.

Otherwise, the game always uses the higher of the ship's speed or the empire's basic tracking speed tech.  This sets the WEAPON's tracking speed level.   However, what determines the final tracking speed used is still determined by the Beam Fire Control; in other words, the shot will use the lowest tracking speed of either the Fire Control or the Weapon when taking any given shot.
It seems weird that hull mounted weapon would use either 'ship's speed or the empire's basic tracking speed tech', but hull mounted turret that should offer more flexibility on top of that, will only consider its own tracking speed. Wouldn't it make sense that it would use the highest of all of the above? And this question wasn't related to CIWS per se, but to turrets in general.
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2016, 11:57:32 AM »
1.)  CIWS is a special case; it uses a special fire control with only 1000 kilometer range. The FC is reduced weight compared to what you can design normally, as are other components.

2.) As stated earlier, the selector is bugged: CIWS will always use your best turret gear reduction tech, regardless of what you select.  Either that, or its bugged period. *shrug*.

3.)  I suppose, but since there's no reason to mount a turret except to increase your tracking speed this will virtually never come up as an actual downside for a ship.

 

Offline Iranon

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Re: Part 11: Summary of Beam Weapons and CIWS
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2016, 12:07:31 PM »
Interestingly, turrets with a designed tracking speed of 0 end up behaving like unturreted weapons.
Theoretically useful if you don't need additional tracking speed but you do want to armour your weapons.
 

 

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