Author Topic: newbie: how do you design missles?  (Read 3132 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline plasticpanzers (OP)

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • p
  • Posts: 201
  • Thanked: 7 times
newbie: how do you design missles?
« on: November 09, 2015, 03:57:26 AM »
I have been back and forth and cannot find where to design the missles to go on my ships or pdcs.    posts are damaged or gone
or 1100 posts long on searches for this.     just looking for basic beginners how to on this
thanks!!
 

Iranon

  • Guest
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2015, 04:39:48 AM »
For long-range general purpose missiles, my baseline is:

40% engines
30% warhead
20% agility
10% fuel

agility is adjusted to just above the closest multiple of (size+0.5).
Warhead is adjusted to avoid wasted tonnage, if moving up or down will give me a square number (squares mean you just penetrate an additional layer of armour) I may deviate a bit from that.
If I need more space (sensors, warhead and agility rounding), it's likely to come from fuel: often, I won't have enough engine multiplier tech for an ideal missile, so the above is longer-ranged than it needs to be. If I have space left over, I'll probably go for a bigger engine.
 

Offline plasticpanzers (OP)

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • p
  • Posts: 201
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2015, 04:55:18 AM »
I have no idea what you mean as i just started the game.    I have just found 'missiles' and think i designed one and researched it
now although i have 2 ordanance factories I cannot figure out how to manufacture them.    I have a design for a corvette and pdc
and have built a couple (with magazines, loaders, sensors) but cannot arm them.
 

Offline plasticpanzers (OP)

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • p
  • Posts: 201
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2015, 05:08:19 AM »
I'm finding it. . . there are a busload of dropdowns you never notice til you click everything! lol!
 

Offline plasticpanzers (OP)

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • p
  • Posts: 201
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2015, 05:23:08 AM »
new issue.    I am now building missiles at my ordanance facilites and even have 17 built but seem unable to put them or assign them
to any design of ship or pdc.    i need more asprin. . . .
 

Offline MarcAFK

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 2005
  • Thanked: 134 times
  • ...it's so simple an idiot could have devised it..
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2015, 06:01:14 AM »
Hang in there, the learning curve is pretty steep but that's just because theres so many options and complexity :p
Theres a few ways of handling missiles, first assign a "standard loadout" to a ship with the class design window ordnance/fighters tab,  this defines what a ship will be loaded with when it's first constructed, provided you've built the missiles first. Also the fast reload option on the ship window will use the standard loadout.
If you go to the individual ship window's ordnance tab you'll see the 3 reload options allowing fast reloading from colliers in the same task group, mothership or population if the ship is in orbit of a body.
Under this is a list of the ships magazine contents, and dropdowns allowing you to show the ammunition of other ships in the same task group, or alternatively the missiles at a population the ship is in orbit of. Transfer the missiles by double clicking them.
A ship designated as a collier on the class design window has certain extra options on the task group window including "unload ordnance".
You can see what missiles you have constructed by using the "stockpiles" button on the industry window, from here you can scrap unneeded missiles.
Theres also the ammo transfer window which can make moving missiles around somewhat easier.
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline plasticpanzers (OP)

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • p
  • Posts: 201
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2015, 06:19:33 AM »
thanks!  my first 'Verdun' class pdc finally has something to shoot! ;D
thanks also for the encouragement.    I have been gaming over 50 years and since early SSI computer space games but this
game is awesome and does require an adeqate stocking of asprin and eyedrops!  (and I just had cataract surgery!)
 

Offline MarcAFK

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 2005
  • Thanked: 134 times
  • ...it's so simple an idiot could have devised it..
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2015, 06:33:23 AM »
thanks!  my first 'Verdun' class pdc finally has something to shoot! ;D
thanks also for the encouragement.    I have been gaming over 50 years and since early SSI computer space games but this
game is awesome and does require an adeqate stocking of asprin and eyedrops!  (and I just had cataract surgery!)
It took me a while to find the right gamma setting for my monitor, now I just need to reduce the brightness level for late night gaming :p
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline linkxsc

  • Commander
  • *********
  • Posts: 304
  • Thanked: 16 times
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2015, 02:24:57 PM »
Welcome Plasticpanzers, hope you enjoy the game. Its annoying at times, and the learning curve is really more of a sheer cliff... with people shooting down at you as you attempt to climb.
But if you stick with it, it's great in ways that so many other games simply are not.

It took me a while to find the right gamma setting for my monitor, now I just need to reduce the brightness level for late night gaming :p
Yeah, getting the right monitor setting, this game does produce a lot of eye strain. I honestly wish I could change the system map to a dull red or orange color as opposed to the blue as its less straining for the eye. (at least in my experience. blues and purples give me crazy eye strain if I look at them for any length of time)


On the topic of Plastic and his adventures with missiles however.

As the wiki is down, you'll have to hunt around the forums for advice for ship designs and missiles and such. Bureau of ship design of course.
But general rule of thumb when it comes to anti missile missiles, 50% engine, "1 damage warhead", a tiny bit of fuel to get the range of your missile fire control, and the rest in agility. Your goal in AMM design is a missile with enough range, that has the highest "to-hit" chance possible (as enemy anti ship missiles can often be faster than your AMMs) but to-hit is based on your own missile's speed, agility, and the target's speed.

With anti ship missiles on the other hand, you can opt for close range or long range. But something important in the design, instead of tuning for agility to try and raise the to-hit (you only need to get ~100% to-hit against the enemy's common ship speed, plus a little bit for possibly faster enemies), you need to strike a balance between fuel load, damage, and engine size.
However, msot players seem to use size 3-6 for ASMs, as size 6 is the "smallest" with regards to sensor detection mechanics, and larger missiles take up more space on ships, and can't achieve the same "saturation" of the target as smaller missiles do.

Example: With say 4 hull spaces, on my ship, I can fit 1 size 4 launcher, 2 size 2s, and 4 size 1s.
The size 2 launchers fire 2x as often as the size 4, and the size 1s fire 4x as often.
So from the same hull space, over a set amount of time, for each size 4 missile fired, i could have fired 4 size 2s, or 16 size 1s.
And its a lot harder to intercept 16 size 1 missiles, than it is to intercept 1 size 4.

Not saying larger missiles don't have their place... but sticking to the 4-6 range is pretty common.


PS
A number of months ago I had started working on a comprehensive spreadsheet for tuning missile design, but when I started going back to school... well programming homework, kinda kills my wish to look at excel and work on math. I'll have to get back around to that some weekend when I don't have a project due and finish it. Hopefully it'll be helpful to people starting out once its done.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 02:29:50 PM by linkxsc »
 

Offline Andy8583

  • Leading Rate
  • *
  • A
  • Posts: 14
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2018, 03:04:20 PM »
Wait, so how do you determine how many 'hull spaces' for launchers you have on your ship.  And whats stopping you from simply putting on more of the larger ones? This is the first time I've heard of this thing, currently my philosophy is to try to outrange the enemy, as my FC, active sensors, and missiles all have a range of around 180m km, which I /think/ is a lot?
 

Offline Michael Sandy

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • M
  • Posts: 771
  • Thanked: 83 times
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2018, 10:24:06 PM »
Larger launchers have a longer reload rate.  So yes, you can generally get much higher range with larger missiles because of their more efficient engines, but you pay for it with a low DPS.  (unless you push to Box Launchers on the reduced size launcher tech tree)

Probably the most common mistake in a missile ship design is insufficient ammo.  I suggest a minimum of magazine space equal to the total launcher space.  And more for anti-missile launchers.
 

Offline Erik L

  • Administrator
  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • *****
  • Posts: 5654
  • Thanked: 366 times
  • Forum Admin
  • Discord Username: icehawke
  • 2020 Supporter 2020 Supporter : Donate for 2020
    2022 Supporter 2022 Supporter : Donate for 2022
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter : Support the forums with a Gold subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2018, 03:31:43 PM »
On ammo, I usually go by salvo count. If I have ten launchers and I want 20 salvos, then I need magazine space for 200 missiles. Minimum.

Offline Father Tim

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 2162
  • Thanked: 531 times
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2018, 10:51:25 AM »
I once put a couple launchers on my independent colliers so they could defend themselves, then changed my mind and swapped them for 5 or 6 extremely-slow-reload launchers.  When one of said colliers was harassed by enemy ships, it turned out to be the best combatant in my entire fleet.

So, 60% ammo.  Maybe 66 2/3%.

.

I see a lot of people build a lot of ships that can shoot themselves dry long before the first salvo reaches its target. . .  resulting in either mass wastage of missiles (unless one is very good at estimating 'Hits to Kill' and losses to defensive fire) or long delays between salvoes anyways (in which case, using the same tonnage for more slower-firing launchers would have been better).

 

Iranon

  • Guest
Re: newbie: how do you design missles?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2018, 12:34:47 PM »
Plausible: Barring a few design tricks, the real choices are deep magazines or box launchers.
Because when you have less weapon than magazine tonnage, you don't gain much total capacity over box launchers and lose a lot of density.