Please help me with these ship classes

[Brainsucker (OP)]

I want to know if these two ship classes are worthy enough to be added to my military fleet.

Aurora is designated as multi role missile frigate that will be added to my patrol squadron. They will be operated with the missile ship Paladin (with AMM Missiles) and AWAC ship, Hawkeyes. Their role is to stop the enemy if the first line of defense, the jump gate defenders can't do their job.

Aurora class Missile Frigate    4,850 tons     117 Crew     572.85 BP      TCS 97  TH 200  EM 0
2061 km/s     Armour 4-25     Shields 0-0     Sensors 10/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 10
Maint Life 7.24 Years     MSP 295    AFR 47%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 10    5YR 148    Max Repair 60 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 0    
Magazine 55    

Rolls Royce ME 40EP (5)    Power 40    Fuel Use 66.5%    Signature 40    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 11.2 billion km   (62 days at full power)

Goalkeeper CIWS (1x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 8000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Hyundai MK4 Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 75
Mitsubishi TS/S4 24-100 (1)     Range 36.0m km    Resolution 100
YJ-3 AShM (11)  Speed: 7,000 km/s   End: 142.4m    Range: 59.8m km   WH: 8    Size: 5    TH: 28/16/8

Mitsubishi AR/SSMS 30-1  (1)     GPS 30     Range 1.5m km    Resolution 1
Mitsubishi AR2/SSAS 60-100 (1)     GPS 6000     Range 30.0m km    Resolution 100
Aurora S10/2 Thermal Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

The second ship class is a multirole cruiser who virtually can do anything alone. I plan to make them the flagship of my fleet that operate outside the solar system. But also to guard the place of interest in the frontier.

New World class Jump Cruiser    12,000 tons     368 Crew     1641.45 BP      TCS 240  TH 272  EM 0
1133 km/s    JR 4-50     Armour 3-46     Shields 0-0     Sensors 10/10/0/0     Damage Control Rating 21     PPV 14
Maint Life 8.26 Years     MSP 1796    AFR 54%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 47    5YR 703    Max Repair 272 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 20 months    Flight Crew Berths 0    
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 59    

StarTrek MJ12000(4) Star Drive     Max Ship Size 12000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 4
Rolls Royce ME 54.4EP NPE (5)    Power 54.4    Fuel Use 36.77%    Signature 54.4    Exp 8%
Fuel Capacity 550,000 Litres    Range 22.4 billion km   (229 days at full power)

Goalkeeper CIWS (1x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 8000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Lockheed MK1 Ship AMML (4)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 30
Hyundai MK4 Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 75
Huaiwei TS/SSMS 48-1 (2)     Range 7.2m km    Resolution 1
Mitsubishi TS/S4 24-100 (1)     Range 36.0m km    Resolution 100
HQ-2 AMM (29)  Speed: 7,000 km/s   End: 16.6m    Range: 7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 37/22/11
YJ-3 AShM (6)  Speed: 7,000 km/s   End: 142.4m    Range: 59.8m km   WH: 8    Size: 5    TH: 28/16/8

Huaiwei AR/SSAS 84-1 (1)     GPS 84     Range 4.2m km    Resolution 1
Mitsubishi AR/EWS Type 2 (1)     GPS 40800     Range 166.6m km    Resolution 150
Mitsubishi AR2/SSAS 24-100 (1)     GPS 2400     Range 12.0m km    Resolution 100
Aurora S10/2 Thermal Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km
Aurora S10/2 EM Detector (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

The question is, are these two are worthy to become the addition of my fleet?

[Jorgen_CAB]

The main issue here is probably that you lack the technology to build proper missiles. When I do a conventional start I rarely build Any ASM capable ships unless I have at least 4x missile engine and a few warhead techs. They seem just to be a waste of time and resources before then. AMM also need a couple of manoeuvre levels to work.

In your case the speed of the missiles is too slow. Someone with the same tech level as yourself will easily shoot them down with almost any type of beam weapon. AMM in your case is almost useless in comparison how effective a 10cm turreted laser cannon would be.

[Brainsucker (OP)]

so the ships are not worth enough to become the addition to my fleet then

Missile is hard to build, 

[Jorgen_CAB]

I would perhaps not go that far but some more observations.

Your CIWS system are pretty big for the efficiency you get out of them with only two shots from each. I never field gauss weapons before they fire at least three shots per barrel but at that stage they are quite effective for their weight and just improve with more shots.

If I go with a standard or balanced approach I start with investing RP into lasers and mostly beam defences on frigate sized ships (3000-6000t). If I encounter a more advanced alien I find that missiles are pretty useless but beams will at least give you some defence and you can always fight them at jump point or defend planets. This with a reasonable investment of research points.

If I have really good kinetic and propulsion scientists I might be able to rush for some good ASM by researching engine power modifiers and missile warhead technology. I usually ignore AMM for my first missile ships and rely on beam defences for missile defence such as 10cm lasers... usually just infra-red lasers since they are cheap to build and function good enough in PD role. Even when you have a fire rate of 15sec they will be able to engage most ASM waves fast enough, even high tech ones.

I never diversify my research until much later in a game when I really have the resources to do so and that will usually be in the ION or Magneto Plasma age of engines at the earliest.

When I build missiles I always make sure they have at least an 80% chance to hit one of my own main combat ships, or even better a known enemy vessel. That is a good rule of thumb. My AMM must at least have a 25% chance to intercept my own ASM or else I deem my technology for building them too low.

When using ASM you also need to be able to fire them in enough large salvoes so the enemy beam PD can't shoot them all down, which is very hard if you use larger missiles with no armour on them (minimum one armour point). Against AMM then smaller salvoes with very low reload rate is better... so there is a fine balance you will have to take into consideration. But with early tech I rather invest in some missile launcher reduction and go for larger salvoes with very long fire rates. I find that larger salvoes are more or less harder to defend against, at least in the early to middle game.

Most of my early destroyers fit 50% reduced missile launchers and only one reload of their offensive missiles. Later I go with 25% launchers with only one salvo, they will need tenders to resupply after they have fired a salvo of missiles. I never go with box launchers on main combat vessels, those are for corvettes and smaller ships that never operate very far from hangars or maintenance facilities.

I never optimises my fleets too much and I try to build my ships with lot's of RP elements. I try to build my ships in accordance to what I believe a real human empire in space would do in that particular situation. So most of my ships are in some respect multi-purpose but not always completely self-sufficient. Your ships seem to be quite heavy RP inspired so I like them in concept...

[Brainsucker (OP)]

how about the radar, the fire control spec and concept?

[Hawkeye]

   Aurora:
Deployment time is a bit long, given it has only fuel for two months, so I´d reduce it a bit.

Maint Time is way too long.

7.24 years, whith 12 months deployment time and 2 months worth of fuel?

Either double the range of your active/missile firecontrol or half the range of your missiles.
Usually, I build the other way around, i.e. sensors/FC have longer range than missiels, so I am able to use the next generation of missiles without a refit
I´d half the fuel _and_ the warhead and put everything in engines and perhaps a bit agility to thet the to-hit chances and the speed up.

CIWS doesn´t need a res-1 sensor, as that is build into the CIWS itself, so rip it out.


   New World:
Your Jump Cruiser has less armor than your Frigate. This is your ride home, you do _not_ want to skimp on protection on that one .

Again your Maint Life is waaaaaaay too long. Just make sure you can repair the largest part of your design, which requires 272 MSP. If you want to be on the safe side, double it and leave it at that.


While your AMMs are pitiful, I am not sure there is a lot you can do about it, given the tech you have. Reducing range (your res-1 active can probably see an enemy size 6 or smaller missile at less than 1 million klicks) probably won´t give you a whole lot of space to play with.
ASMs see above.

Hm, how about forgetting the AMMs and putting either more CIWS (if the ship is supposed operate on its own) or rip them _and_ the CIWS out and replace it with a turret (networked PD in fleets rock)
You could the also rip out the res-1 sensor (CIWS approach) or reduce it in size a bit (turret approach) not too much though, or you´ll loose the tracking-time-bonus.
This would also allow you to put a few more ASMs on the ship, as with only three salvos worth of missiles, there is no way to kill anything. Even a FAC will be hard to kill with only 6 missiles. (rule of thumb: Absolute minimum is 10 salvos (with regular lauchers))


Hm, a res-100 and a res-150? I´d probably go with _one_ res-120 and be done with it