Updates to Teams and Ruins for v3.3

[Erik L]

Xenologist does sound good. And it is field-agnostic

[welchbloke]

I also like the Xenologist option as its not too specific.

Welchbloke

[Sotak246]

I too like Xenologist, it covers all the fields.  That way those that want to think in terms of their officers specializing in different fields can give certain officers titles in diferent research areas, or if you don't care just say they are all generalists.  But this way they are all covered by one team and process making it neat and easy.

Mark

[Steve Walmsley]

As it seems a consensus is building I have changed the team to Xenologist and the bonus to Xenology

Steve

[jfelten]

This is for 3.2 ruins but I didn't see a better topic to place this question under.

Is it normal to find "useless" ruins?  I found a ruined outpost:

19th October 2031 18:05:06,Romulan,Agrippina,Ruined Outpost - PortBlair Republic found on Agrippina-A IV

Sent both an archeological and cybernetic teams there.  Three years later I finally received a message that the ruins had been exploited:

9th September 2034 20:05:06,Romulan,Agrippina,Ruins have been exploited on Agrippina-A IV

However, unlike prior ruins found, no "Abandoned Mines" or "Abandoned Factories" appeared there and so far the cybernetic team has done nothing.  Was this one just randomly a total bust?  Was it a mistake to send both archeological and cybernetic teams at the same time?  

Perhaps it is just coincidence but I found ruins in 2 of the 4 systems adjacent to the home system early on.  Then for the next 40 or so systems explored I found no ruins.  Finally I find this 3rd set of ruins 4  jumps from the home system but it turns out to be empty.  Do ruins normally mostly happen hear the home system or is this just all random chance?

[ZimRathbone]

This is for 3.2 ruins but I didn't see a better topic to place this question under.

Is it normal to find "useless" ruins?  I found a ruined outpost:

19th October 2031 18:05:06,Romulan,Agrippina,Ruined Outpost - PortBlair Republic found on Agrippina-A IV

Sent both an archeological and cybernetic teams there.  Three years later I finally received a message that the ruins had been exploited:

9th September 2034 20:05:06,Romulan,Agrippina,Ruins have been exploited on Agrippina-A IV

However, unlike prior ruins found, no "Abandoned Mines" or "Abandoned Factories" appeared there and so far the cybernetic team has done nothing.  Was this one just randomly a total bust?  Was it a mistake to send both archeological and cybernetic teams at the same time?  

Perhaps it is just coincidence but I found ruins in 2 of the 4 systems adjacent to the home system early on.  Then for the next 40 or so systems explored I found no ruins.  Finally I find this 3rd set of ruins 4  jumps from the home system but it turns out to be empty.  Do ruins normally mostly happen hear the home system or is this just all random chance?

Its random.  In one game I found an "abandoned intact cities" ruin that researched out after only two turns (and that with an Arch team rated at 120!) - needless to say I got no new tech there.

Arch teams find Tech, Cyber teams reactivate installations.

The number of abandoned installtions is determined at the point of generating the ruin, and is generally proportionate to the size of the ruin - I would not be surpised to see no installtions on an Outpost - also note that there is a much bigger chance of reseaching out the smaller ruins, and also the lower the Arch team skill, the greater the chance of researching out.

Note that in 3.3 the XenoArch teams cover both functions

Cheers

[Father Tim]

This may be an actual bug. After liberally sprinkling dozens of ruins around, I noticed that not one Outpost had any abandoned installations.  I can't remember (or find) the list of ruin sizes, so I'm not sure if this is intended or not.

[welchbloke]

This may be an actual bug. After liberally sprinkling dozens of ruins around, I noticed that not one Outpost had any abandoned installations.  I can't remember (or find) the list of ruin sizes, so I'm not sure if this is intended or not.

In anothor thread Steve listed tthem as:

Destroyed Outpost
Ruined Outpost
Ruined Settlement
Ruined Colony
Ruined City
Damaged Installation
Abandoned Installation
Partially Intact City
Deserted Intact City
Deserted Intact Cities

[welchbloke]

This leads me to another question; in a previous version Steve listed the Tech Chance and Exploited Percentage for the (then) 5 types of ruins.  Does any have an updated list of the 10 ruins with their associated Tech Chance and Exploited Percentage?

[Father Tim]

Sure:  20% when you recover a research facility.  Ruins are exploited when there are no 'Abandoned Installations' left to be reactivated.  (For 4.0 that is.)

[IanD]

Sure: 20% when you recover a research facility. Ruins are exploited when there are no 'Abandoned Installations' left to be reactivated. (For 4.0 that is.)
Sure: 20% when you recover a research facility. Ruins are exploited when there are no 'Abandoned Installations' left to be reactivated. (For 4.0 that is.)

But what's the chance to recover a research laboratory? Over two games I have attempted to recover 300+ installations. I have only recovered 4-5 research laboratories and no tech (but at a 20% chance that's OK). Having said that I have only recovered two ground unit training facilities, (both in my current 4.26 game) and one shipyard.

Mines (both types), construction, ordnance and fighter installations, maintenance facilities, fuel refineries, mass drivers, deep space tracking stations and terraforming installations all show up regularly. Never seen financial centre, spaceport, sector HQ, naval academy, no good reason why I should.

Regards

[Steve Walmsley]

Sure: 20% when you recover a research facility. Ruins are exploited when there are no 'Abandoned Installations' left to be reactivated. (For 4.0 that is.)
Sure: 20% when you recover a research facility. Ruins are exploited when there are no 'Abandoned Installations' left to be reactivated. (For 4.0 that is.)

But what's the chance to recover a research laboratory? Over two games I have attempted to recover 300+ installations. I have only recovered 4-5 research laboratories and no tech (but at a 20% chance that's OK). Having said that I have only recovered two ground unit training facilities, (both in my current 4.26 game) and one shipyard.

Mines (both types), construction, ordnance and fighter installations, maintenance facilities, fuel refineries, mass drivers, deep space tracking stations and terraforming installations all show up regularly. Never seen financial centre, spaceport, sector HQ, naval academy, no good reason why I should.

The random selection table in v4.3 ia as follows:

1-11 Minerals
12-15 Missiles
16-17 Mass Driver
18-22 Maintenance Facility
23-37 Construction Factory
38-45 Ordnance Factory
46-49 Fighter Factory
50 Spaceport
51-57 Fuel Refinery
58-71 Infrastructure
72-76 Tracking Station
77-82 Research Facility
83-87 Terraforming
88-94 Fuel
95-96 Ground Force Training Facility
97 Duranium
98 Neutronium
99 Sorium
100 Shipyard

So double chance for Duranium/Neutronium/Sorium as 1-11 is random mineral

I am still not completely happy with ruins though. Now I have seriously thinking about trying to put together an Aurora novel that a non-player could read, the concept of five guys restoring all the ancient alien installations does seem a little far-fetched. I can see a few options.

1) Mechanics as now but Ruins yield a far smaller set of 'rewards'. Probably minerals, fuel, missiles, infrastructure and tech - maybe automated mines too as it shouldn't matter if they are alien
2) Same list as now but only minerals, fuel, missles and infrastructure are actually recovered. Everything else is classed as investigated rather than recovered and yields tech points in the appropriate fields (I think someone has suggested something similar in the past)
3) Similar rewards as now but they are recovered by a new type of ground forces division (Alien Investigation Unit?) instead of a team. Or maybe the existing Engineer Division type. The division morale would be serve the same function as the current team rating and would be boosted by the Xenology bonus of the division commander. Morale would improve with experience. A few thousand engineers and scientists crawling over an ruined alien civilization might actually be able to recover installations.

I am open to other suggestions. I want to try and keep the 'treasure chest' aspect but find some way of making it more plausible than at present.

Steve

[Sotak246]

Then engineering division method doesnt sound too bad, it would slow up my exploitation a bit as I would have to ensure I had a trooptransport to move them.  I always felt the 5 man team was a bit small but roleplayed that they were just the main officers of a larger group under their command.

[schroeam]

I also role play that the xeno team were the officers in charge of directing the efforts of a much larger group of xenoarcheologists.  I also role play the mechanism for their survival on hostile planets and moons.  I like the idea of having a team of officers on the scene, but the addition of a specialized unit capable of restoring the facilities found by the team.  Maybe the effectiveness of the new unit is also due to the xeno bonus and factory production bonus of the commanding officer.

Adam.

[mavikfelna]

Actually, I think this is a perfect job for engineering battalions. Let the Xeno teams find the stuff but have the engineers recover it.

--Mav