Author Topic: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions  (Read 345293 times)

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Offline Hazard

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #705 on: November 21, 2018, 12:48:43 PM »
Actually, dumping dangerous substances into an atmosphere actually has a purpose in this game.

It's basically chemical warfare writ large. With the mass civilian casualties that comes with such a thing.
 

Offline JustAnotherDude

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #706 on: November 26, 2018, 11:15:56 AM »
With ground combat as it is now, I don't imagine that you're planning on any new components, but I would humbly suggest the ability to have infantry equipped as suicide bombers. Large amounts of damage, but the infantry dies when used. Perhaps a mechanic where you can make them out of population for cheap or something
 

Offline Tree

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #707 on: November 26, 2018, 03:42:22 PM »
If we're really going for "excess wealth is invested into improving the lives of citizens", could you make it so having excess wealth decreases unrest (or dampens unrest increases) and speeds up the political status change of conquered populations when you've reached your maximum?
And since now financial centers are going to be more useless than ever, maybe make it so they increase the maximum wealth you can accumulate (and by a lot more than they would now by providing yearly wealth). Which would at least make them vaguely useful to accumulate money and for civilian mining expansions, assuming it's still a roll of a 1-million-sided die versus your wealth and trying to roll under.
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #708 on: November 26, 2018, 06:02:40 PM »
I'd still like to see some facility to test designs outside of combat and workarounds such as gifting them to another race.

Offline Father Tim

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #709 on: November 26, 2018, 07:10:44 PM »
And since now financial centers are going to be more useless than ever. . .

Do you heavily subsidize civilian shipping lines?  Do you exploit the heck out of the Earth-Luna infrastructure run?  Do your games last long enough to exhaust your home system minerals, and do you then move your heavy industry to colony worlds?  Do you even build imperial freighters?

I've never found Financial Centres to be useless.  In fact, I have always considered them essential.  They are literally the first thing I build, every game (since they don't require TN tech).  Turning resource-poor, population-rich worlds into banking havens is an essential step towards galactic conquest, and a fine retirement plan for Earth / Homeworld / forge worlds.

* * *

I, for one, would certainly prefer to try Steve's 'solution' to 'the Conv/TN Wealth problem' before suggesting a dozen or more 'improvements' to it.  Presonally, I've never found the wealth cushion to be a problem, but I've also never thought about it much.  Steve is exactly right when he says "This removes wealth as a consideration for many years and takes away meaningful decisions."  Until now, I considered that a good thing; I congratulated myself for my empire's sound financial planning.
 

Offline Coleslaw

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #710 on: November 26, 2018, 07:27:46 PM »
Would it be possible for shipping lines to also be able to deploy unarmed, unarmored troop transports? Then you could do what you do with civilian freighters and submit contract orders for different populations.    For example, Earth has 5 medium tank formations.   Earth also has an order to "provide" 3 of those formations.   Mars has an order to "request" 3 medium tank formations.   Civilian troop transports will transport those 3 formations to Mars.   If none of the active troop transports have the capacity to transport a formation, the shipping line may deploy a new model of transport that can hold all of the formation(s).   That way you wouldn't have to worry about smaller transports only being able to move parts of one formation at a time and having to track them throughout their journey, etc.

EDIT: Also, why is this post getting extra spaces in places I definitely am not putting them?     
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 07:30:02 PM by Coleslaw35 »
 
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Offline Father Tim

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #711 on: November 26, 2018, 10:25:08 PM »
EDIT: Also, why is this post getting extra spaces in places I definitely am not putting them?     

Because you don't have 10 legitimate posts yet, so you might be a spam 'bot.
 

Offline Tree

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #712 on: November 27, 2018, 01:28:10 AM »
Do you heavily subsidize civilian shipping lines?  Do you exploit the heck out of the Earth-Luna infrastructure run?  Do your games last long enough to exhaust your home system minerals, and do you then move your heavy industry to colony worlds?  Do you even build imperial freighters?

I've never found Financial Centres to be useless.  In fact, I have always considered them essential.  They are literally the first thing I build, every game (since they don't require TN tech).  Turning resource-poor, population-rich worlds into banking havens is an essential step towards galactic conquest, and a fine retirement plan for Earth / Homeworld / forge worlds.

Population growth on its own does it all for free, cheaper and eventually faster than you can build financial centers. I'd rather use my resources, workforce and factory time on something else. Oh, and of course, wealth, too. I had completely forgotten financial centers also cost wealth when typing this.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 02:11:39 AM by Tree »
 

Offline alex_brunius

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #713 on: November 27, 2018, 03:03:10 AM »
Population growth on its own does it all for free, cheaper and eventually faster than you can build financial centers. I'd rather use my resources, workforce and factory time on something else. Oh, and of course, wealth, too. I had completely forgotten financial centers also cost wealth when typing this.

If you can't grow your research & industry faster than your population can grow I think your either not expanding industry/research as aggressively as many of us do when we play, not play the game for as long or your much more active in colonizing, or a combination of them.

If you try and play an Empire where most population is on large worlds with low pop growth ( or keep them on the core homeworld ) you can grow your industry and research many times as fast as your population grows... which does inevitably lead to wealth shortage when you rely on only population taxes.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 03:17:00 AM by alex_brunius »
 
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Offline Hazard

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #714 on: November 27, 2018, 04:23:40 AM »
Also leads to personnel shortages. There's now a cap on how large your planetary populations can grow after all.
 

Offline Tree

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #715 on: November 27, 2018, 06:05:27 AM »
If you can't grow your research & industry faster than your population can grow I think your either not expanding industry/research as aggressively as many of us do when we play, not play the game for as long or your much more active in colonizing, or a combination of them.

If you try and play an Empire where most population is on large worlds with low pop growth ( or keep them on the core homeworld ) you can grow your industry and research many times as fast as your population grows... which does inevitably lead to wealth shortage when you rely on only population taxes.
I always run a deficit in the first few years, being in negative wealth is the norm. I solve it with a lot of colonies and conquests. Financial centers have never helped me one bit.
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #716 on: November 27, 2018, 11:27:04 AM »
There has been allot of talk about wealth and economics and one thing I would consider going forward is to give a production efficiency bonus for building the same type of ship in high quantities. This would represent more streamlined production routines, reduced cost of mass production of components, spare parts and tools.

Smaller ships should perhaps get a slight benefit in this process but not linear to its size... so a 1000t ship should not get double the efficiency reduction for every ship build than a 2000t ship.

This would intriduce a couple of more realistic choices in ship design and compromises you will need to do. It would also not make new technology a must to incorporate accross your entire fleets. You will have to seriously consider the reduced efficiency of modifying existing designs versus keep running older models a little longer.

This efficiency should also effect maintenance costs of ships. The more experience and efficient the production of a certain ship is the cheaper and more accessible spare parts, expertise etc becomes.

Production efficiency should then be reduced by the amount a ship is changed when you upgrade them. The more you change a design them more of the production efficiency you loose.

There could then be two new technologies. One that decide the maximum efficiency rate, this could start at 150% and go down to 50% where all ships start at 200% efficiency for a completely new ship model, which meant double the production cost.
The other technology would be the rate at which you gain production efficiency.

This technology and mechanics should impact fighters, ship components, ground units and ships built in shipyards.

It would hopefully not be too difficult to code and should not be too difficult to balance either.
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #717 on: November 27, 2018, 12:00:17 PM »
I don't disagree with anything you're asking for, and I would appreciate the added realism of such a system.  If we could wish it into existence tomorrow, I'd say "Go for it!"  My problem is a lot less tangible -- it's "what other thing are we not getting, because Steve only has so much programming time?"  If Production Efficiency modifiers crop up in C# Aurora 1.3, or 1.4, then great -- but I wouldn't want to delay C# Aurora 1.00 by a month (or even a week) to get them in.
 
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Offline Hazard

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #718 on: November 27, 2018, 03:12:55 PM »
If anything, ship production bonuses should be based on how long it takes to build a ship and how long ago the previous ship was launched in such a case. Ships with long production times tend to get far less benefit from the builder's familiarity with the design than a ship that's build in a couple of weeks on a single slip.
 

Offline Whitecold

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #719 on: November 27, 2018, 03:41:06 PM »
If anything, ship production bonuses should be based on how long it takes to build a ship and how long ago the previous ship was launched in such a case. Ships with long production times tend to get far less benefit from the builder's familiarity with the design than a ship that's build in a couple of weeks on a single slip.

I don't think this is really necessary. Ships themselves are not mass produced in assembly lines, and overall it will be just a buff to small units. They already have a massive buff that it is far easier to create small shipyards than to create massive ones. The cost of retooling already incentivises to keep building the same ships, simply increasing that cost would be the easiest way to achieve the same result instead of a complicated system to calculate when what was built.