Aurora 4x
VB6 Aurora => Bureau of Ship Design => Topic started by: bdub1 on March 11, 2018, 02:25:05 PM
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Here are some max tech ships i came up with. Im not sure if it's a bug, but my turrets say they only track at 25km/s. Feel free to tell me if it's good or bad, and how to make it good. I have maintenance off
Agincourt class Missile Cruiser 15 000 tons 558 Crew 7437. 2 BP TCS 300 TH 3000 EM 9000
10000 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 10-54 Shields 300-300 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 150
Maint Life 0. 08 Years MSP 310 AFR 1800% IFR 25% 1YR 3868 5YR 58016 Max Repair 900 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months Spare Berths 17
Magazine 486
Fletcher Foundation J15000(3-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 15000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Brady Drive Systems 1000 EP Photonic Drive (3) Power 1000 Fuel Use 9% Signature 1000 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 750 000 Litres Range 100. 0 billion km (115 days at full power)
Pratt Aerospace Omega R300/360 Shields (20) Total Fuel Cost 300 Litres per hour (7 200 per day)
Austin Kinetics Size 1 Missile Launcher (30) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 5
Austin Kinetics Size 8 Missile Launcher (15) Missile Size 8 Rate of Fire 20
Riley Techsystems Anti-Missile Fire Control FC2025-R1 (1) Range 2 025. 0m km Resolution 1
Riley Techsystems Missile Fire Control FC7159-R50 (1) Range 7 159. 4m km Resolution 50
Size 8 Anti-ship Missile (50) Speed: 24 000 km/s End: 2. 9d Range: 6108. 3m km WH: 90 Size: 8 TH: 880/528/264
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile (86) Speed: 50 000 km/s End: 74. 2m Range: 222. 5m km WH: 3 Size: 1 TH: 2166/1300/650
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Victory class Cruiser 15 000 tons 512 Crew 26589. 9 BP TCS 300 TH 3000 EM 9000
10000 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 15-54 Shields 300-300 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 150 PPV 115
Maint Life 0 Years MSP 0 AFR 3000% IFR 41. 7% 1YR 26211 5YR 393161 Max Repair 2625 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months Spare Berths 18
Magazine 131
Fletcher Foundation J15000(3-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 15000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Brady Drive Systems 1000 EP Photonic Drive (3) Power 1000 Fuel Use 9% Signature 1000 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1 250 000 Litres Range 166. 7 billion km (192 days at full power)
Pratt Aerospace Omega R300/360 Shields (20) Total Fuel Cost 300 Litres per hour (7 200 per day)
Quad Jarvis-Dunn Aeronautical 10cm C25 Far Gamma Ray Laser Turret (5x4) Range 360 000km TS: 25 km/s Power 12-100 RM 12 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Twin Jarvis-Dunn Aeronautical 20cm C25 Far Gamma Ray Laser Turret (3x2) Range 1 200 000km TS: 25 km/s Power 20-50 RM 12 ROF 5 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
Berry-Bond Fire Control S02 700-25000 (1) Max Range: 1 400 000 km TS: 25000 km/s 99 99 98 97 96 96 95 94 94 93
Lewis Heavy Industries Vacuum Energy Power Plant Technology PB-1 (9) Total Power Output 360 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Lewis Heavy Industries Vacuum Energy Power Plant Technology PB-1 (2) Total Power Output 400 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Austin Kinetics Size 1 Missile Launcher (19) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 5
Riley Techsystems Anti-Missile Fire Control FC2025-R1 (1) Range 2 025. 0m km Resolution 1
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile (131) Speed: 50 000 km/s End: 74. 2m Range: 222. 5m km WH: 3 Size: 1 TH: 2166/1300/650
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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I could see an excuse for the missile ship being that slow at max tech, but not a beam weapon ship.
The anti ship missiles are ridiculously slow. 24,000? People have missiles that fast at Magnetoplasma (TL4) if not ION tech.
Also, 3.5 reloads for a fast launcher is ridiculously low. You could go to box launchers and have more total magazine capacity.
One of the odd game paradoxes is that missile range often goes DOWN as tech advances. Instead of being limited by fire control, it is limited by the effect of engine boost tech on missile range. If you want long ranged missiles, you typically go to some form of 2-stage missile.
As far as your anti-missile missile launchers, 19 launchers and only 1 fire control seems a little vulnerable. You can only engage 1 volley at a time with 1 fire control, so if a swarm of small fighters with box launchers fired, your defenses would be ill equipped to handle it. And again, you want a heck of a lot more reloads for AMMs.
Also, a bit of a definition thing for me:
A cruiser has to be capable of independent cruises. It therefore needs sensors, or to be an integral part of a squadron that has sensors, that allow it to use its weaponry effectively.
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I never actually got to that tech level, but I imagine your fire control ranges are a bit overengineered. not that long range is not a good thing, I quite like it, but try tuning your fire control range to be about the same as your missiles, and if possible put some ECCM to make sure the enemy doesn't try to do something funny with your FC. also, for really long range missiles, use 2 stages. Since your range is way of the chart even on your point defense, I wouldn't be particularly worried about most enemies, but again, you would do much better by cuting the range on AMM to around 20 million KM with sensors and FC about enough to target enemy size 6 missiles at said distance (and even then that is considered crazy long range for PD).
I also like your overall offensive capabilities on your missile ship, but I am afraid that it feels more like a tanky ship than a properly agressive ship, I say you need to cut down a bit of your armour and shields and get yourself some bigger magazines and more lauchers for that matter. It might be just me but I also think bringing colliers with your missile cruisers is generally a good idea, specially with magazines that size.
Speaking of magazines and missiles, what are you firing at? why do you really need these hit chances? you put way too much on agility, and you could use the space you put on agility on other things, like engine size to go faster, of armour to make your missiles harder to bring down. try going for a 90% chance to hit on your faster enemies, and remember that faster missiles also get better acuraccy, along with being harder to put down.
so yea, overall, not bad for a first try...
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Now, I've never reached that level either, but for comparison here's a couple of my own first takes on a combat vessel with max science. (Sadly the first abuses the bug where cloaking devices don't check against the ship's total size, the second is small enough to be within the limit.)
DDG-A class Missile Destroyer 10,000 tons 301 Crew 29773.8 BP TCS 1 TH 120 EM 8100
60000 km/s JR 3-2000 Armour 10-41 Shields 270-300 Sensors 75/75/0/0 Damage Control Rating 11 PPV 24
Maint Life 3.36 Years MSP 20469 AFR 72% IFR 1% 1YR 2745 5YR 41175 Max Repair 12000 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months Spare Berths 0
Magazine 336 Cryogenic Berths 200
J10000(3-2000) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 10000 tons Distance 2000k km Squadron Size 3
6000 EP Photonic Drive (2) Power 6000 Fuel Use 39.6% Signature 60 Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 1,255,000 Litres Range 57.0 billion km (11 days at full power)
Omega R300/360 Shields (18) Total Fuel Cost 270 Litres per hour (6,480 per day)
Size 6 Missile Launcher (50% Reduction) (8) Missile Size 6 Rate of Fire 75
Missile Fire Control FC405-R1 (2) Range 405.0m km Resolution 1
Jackhammer (56) Speed: 115,000 km/s End: 18.2m Range: 125.7m km WH: 100 Size: 6 TH: 2990/1794/897
Active Search Sensor MR810-R1 (1) GPS 1080 Range 810.0m km MCR 88.2m km Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH1-75 (1) Sensitivity 75 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 75m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-75 (1) Sensitivity 75 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 75m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 0.5% of normal
Compact ECCM-10 (2) ECM 100
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
FPC-A-AF-II class Fast Patrol Craft 1,000 tons 17 Crew 1079.05 BP TCS 0.1 TH 1200 EM 0
60000 km/s Armour 10-8 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 3
Maint Life 12.8 Years MSP 674 AFR 8% IFR 0.1% 1YR 8 5YR 114 Max Repair 300 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.5 months Spare Berths 1
Magazine 22
600 EP Photonic Drive (2) Power 600 Fuel Use 54.87% Signature 600 Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 155,000 Litres Range 50.8 billion km (9 days at full power)
Size 1 Missile Launcher (75% Reduction) (4) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC121-R1 (2) Range 121.5m km Resolution 1
Sidewinder (22) Speed: 186,000 km/s End: 5.5m Range: 61.9m km WH: 9 Size: 1 TH: 7812/4687/2343
Active Search Sensor MR135-R1 (1) GPS 180 Range 135.0m km MCR 14.7m km Resolution 1
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 0.5% of normal
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Looking over them a couple of weeks later I'm seeing quite a few issues with them, and a few places where they might need different design targets.
Big things I've noticed go weird at max science:
Cloaking devices become tiny, 6.6% tonnage for a 99.5% reduction. This means that sensors are pretty much all Res 1 and due to the minimum size of 2 fighters are unable to get anywhere without being detected. Ships under 3000t may or may not be harder to detect than minimum size missiles.
Damage values are high enough that armor is only effective until ~10 layers. Shock damage at this point is a huge portion of the final damage. (Might actually be a lower armor level, but I've not fought/tested enough to tell where the break point for shields v armor is.)
As ECM can't get higher than ECCM you don't need to over-engineer FCs for that. Cloaks on the other hand...
Stuff I've not experimented with:
Missile damage v range v speed
Ship fuel range v speed v payload
pretty much anything other than theory and some shock damage tests
Mostly it's just so far beyond what most people see we're kinda flailing. Standard design assumptions we've learnt don't hold up and we've not yet seen enough to make new ones or adjust the existing ones far enough.
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60000km/s thats just madness. that is just complete and absolute madness. my anti missile missile sistems would have problem hiting this. in fact I would have problems detecting this too since its cloaked. 2 missiles would kill most of my ships. I would need to go 5 vs 1 on pd to have barely a chance of geting SOME missiles out of the sky. with the current tech I have on my campaign that is.
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Beam weapons get absolutely crazy-deadly. Because their max range stops increasing at 5 light-seconds, the highest level fire control techs just make them more and more accurate. I can easily imagine a single beam destroyer dishing out many hundreds, maybe a thousand damage every increment at max range.
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Ok, i've taken some of your recommendations and designed this. Are these better or worse than the first ones? They're still slow, but the enemies are only going 4k right now.
Hunt class Missile Cruiser 15 000 tons 546 Crew 8334. 65 BP TCS 300 TH 3000 EM 4500
10000 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 4-54 Shields 150-300 Sensors 1/375/0/0 Damage Control Rating 64 PPV 125
Maint Life 1. 27 Years MSP 1389 AFR 450% IFR 6. 2% 1YR 900 5YR 13501 Max Repair 1800 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months Spare Berths 20
Magazine 980
Boyle-Howell J15000(3-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 15000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Doherty Techsystems 500 EP Photonic Drive (6) Power 500 Fuel Use 9. 5% Signature 500 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 500 000 Litres Range 63. 2 billion km (73 days at full power)
Holden-Duncan Manufacturing Omega R300/360 Shields (10) Total Fuel Cost 150 Litres per hour (3 600 per day)
Holden-Duncan Manufacturing Size 8 Missile Launcher (15) Missile Size 8 Rate of Fire 20
Holden-Duncan Manufacturing Size 1 Missile Launcher (5) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 5
Peacock-Murphy Missile Fire Control FC1620-R1 (50%) (1) Range 1 620. 0m km Resolution 1
Size 8 Anti-ship Missile (111) Speed: 56 200 km/s End: 130. 9m Range: 441. 3m km WH: 90 Size: 8 TH: 374/224/112
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile (92) Speed: 180 000 km/s End: 17. 2m Range: 185. 9m km WH: 3 Size: 1 TH: 7800/4680/2340
Cross Cybernetics Active Search Sensor MR9545-R50 (1) GPS 90000 Range 9 545. 9m km Resolution 50
Bull & Gilbert EM Detection Sensor EM5-375 (1) Sensitivity 375 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 375m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes.
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Exeter class Beam Cruiser 15 000 tons 534 Crew 34619 BP TCS 300 TH 4500 EM 3600
15000 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 8-54 Shields 120-300 Sensors 1/375/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 130. 83
Maint Life 0. 09 Years MSP 1442 AFR 1800% IFR 25% 1YR 15871 5YR 238062 Max Repair 2625 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months Spare Berths 5
Boyle-Howell J15000(3-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 15000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Doherty Techsystems 500 EP Photonic Drive (9) Power 500 Fuel Use 9. 5% Signature 500 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1 000 000 Litres Range 126. 3 billion km (97 days at full power)
Holden-Duncan Manufacturing Omega R300/360 Shields (8) Total Fuel Cost 120 Litres per hour (2 880 per day)
Twin 10cm Laser Turret (11x2) Range 360 000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 6-50 RM 12 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Twin 20cm Laser Turret (5x2) Range 1 200 000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 20-50 RM 12 ROF 5 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
Goddard-Benson Engineering Company Fire Control S02 700-25000 (2) Max Range: 1 400 000 km TS: 25000 km/s 99 99 98 97 96 96 95 94 94 93
Hart-Mellor Vacuum Energy Power Plant Technology PB-1 (4) Total Power Output 640 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Hart-Mellor Vacuum Energy Power Plant Technology PB-1 (3) Total Power Output 240 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Cross Cybernetics Active Search Sensor MR9545-R50 (1) GPS 90000 Range 9 545. 9m km Resolution 50
Bull & Gilbert EM Detection Sensor EM5-375 (1) Sensitivity 375 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 375m km
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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King George V class Battleship 35 000 tons 1141 Crew 49022. 85 BP TCS 700 TH 10000 EM 10350
14285 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 15-95 Shields 345-300 Sensors 1/375/0/0 Damage Control Rating 170 PPV 219. 6
Maint Life 2. 64 Years MSP 17508 AFR 490% IFR 6. 8% 1YR 3564 5YR 53455 Max Repair 2625 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months Spare Berths 3
Magazine 2090
Glover Heavy Industries J35000(3-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 35000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Doherty Techsystems 500 EP Photonic Drive (20) Power 500 Fuel Use 9. 5% Signature 500 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1 750 000 Litres Range 94. 7 billion km (76 days at full power)
Holden-Duncan Manufacturing Omega R300/360 Shields (23) Total Fuel Cost 345 Litres per hour (8 280 per day)
Twin 10cm Laser Turret (10x2) Range 360 000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 6-50 RM 12 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Twin 20cm Laser Turret (5x2) Range 1 200 000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 20-50 RM 12 ROF 5 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
Goddard-Benson Engineering Company Fire Control S02 700-25000 (4) Max Range: 1 400 000 km TS: 25000 km/s 99 99 98 97 96 96 95 94 94 93
Hart-Mellor Vacuum Energy Power Plant Technology PB-1 (4) Total Power Output 320 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Hart-Mellor Vacuum Energy Power Plant Technology PB-1 (4) Total Power Output 640 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Holden-Duncan Manufacturing Size 8 Missile Launcher (10) Missile Size 8 Rate of Fire 20
Holden-Duncan Manufacturing Size 1 Missile Launcher (15) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 5
Peacock-Murphy Missile Fire Control FC1620-R1 (50%) (2) Range 1 620. 0m km Resolution 1
Size 8 Anti-ship Missile (200) Speed: 56 200 km/s End: 130. 9m Range: 441. 3m km WH: 90 Size: 8 TH: 374/224/112
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile (490) Speed: 180 000 km/s End: 17. 2m Range: 185. 9m km WH: 3 Size: 1 TH: 7800/4680/2340
Cross Cybernetics Active Search Sensor MR9545-R50 (1) GPS 90000 Range 9 545. 9m km Resolution 50
Bull & Gilbert EM Detection Sensor EM5-375 (1) Sensitivity 375 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 375m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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...Snip...
TL/DR: looks decent, more refining can be done. :)
I don't have time for a full review atm, I'll get onto that this evening once I'm home again. But here's a first pass:
Speed - Yeah, enemy speed tends to be the biggest reason to go fast in Aurora. I'd personally still go for 20-40k as you'll start outrunning missiles. ;)
Range - Very inconsistent ranges. Personally I pick a range that'll cover my empire and use Vandemeer's engine sheet to see what speed/size I'll need for that. (30-40B km tends to be the range i settle on.)
Armour - Again this is enemy dependent, but I'd recommend somewhere around 8-10 as a decent first approx. It's enough that a first hit will either fail to pen, or cause shock damage anyway.
Missiles - I'll come back to this, but I've found that at this tech you can start designing around the speed limit of 290000 km/s. Oh, and my AMMs ended up with a WH of 4 with like 10M km range. (Also, personal preference, but size 6 missiles are tracked at the same range as size 1 missiles so I tend to stop there unless I really need more damage/range or are dealing in Multi stage missiles)
- The offensive missile seems a bit off. Is that a max tech missile? I was getting a size 6 to WH100, 120k km/s, 100% accuracy v 60k km/s, 200m km range missiles. I haven't tried with longer range, but I don't feel double range would cost that much? (a quick poke of a missile sheet and I'm looking at size 8, WH110, 95.3k km/s, 100% @ 60k km/s, 403m km range. Not sure what the difference in design to yours was)
Edit: Both of the missiles I show here lack sensors, so take that into consideration.
Active Sensors - I find the range on R1 sensors is so crazy I don't need anything higher even when dealing with 'normals'. Also, R50 sensor, R1 MFC.
Turrets - 25km/s turrents, 10km/s FCs. The game lowest is used for accuracy.
More in depth later. I got too caught up as it is.
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I can get a 70k ton dreadnought moving at 15k kmhs with respectable range with 1m litres of fuel at max tech. This 15kt ship should be much faster