Author Topic: Upgrading  (Read 2851 times)

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Offline Bouchart (OP)

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Upgrading
« on: July 07, 2012, 05:05:51 PM »
How often do you upgrade your ships and PDCs to newer designs?
 

Offline Bremen

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Re: Upgrading
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2012, 05:45:01 PM »
I only ever upgrade sensors and fire controls or similar. I've found upgrading a major system like engines, armor, or weapons to be excessively expensive.

Instead I'll cold bloodedly throw obsolete vessels into the meatgrinder while being miserly with new designs. Attrition keeps my fleet reasonably up to date :)
 

Offline metalax

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Re: Upgrading
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2012, 06:02:50 PM »
I tend to build in generations of ships, where each generation has multiple improvements over the last, rather than going the route of an updated class each time a improved component is developed. The current generation is under construction/training, providing system defense for the homeworld and possibly major nexus bases. The previous generation provides the bulk of the forces protecting the rest of the colonies/systems. The grandfather generation forms the fleet reserve. Any older ships are either scrapped or sent in for refit, if there are no older ships remaining then the grandfathered ships will slowly be put through refit, ensuring sufficient remain operational at any one time to serve their function as a relief force.
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: Upgrading
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2012, 06:57:58 PM »
I do something similar to what Metalax does. Usually when a new generation of engines or armor is developed.

As for refitting, I tend to pull in one squadron at a time, leaving others on patrol or deployed. For survey ships, the refit cycle is the same, engines, armor or survey inst. determine when I refit. Those I can usually refit two squadrons of five ships at once, which is around 40-50% of the ships deployed most of the time.

Offline jseah

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Re: Upgrading
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2012, 07:38:10 PM »
I refit only when engines need upgrading.  Usually, everything else also upgrades at the same time.  Despite it costing more than the original ship itself, I usually pay the price since a 100% TF trained fleet with maxed out crew bonus is worth its weight in tritanium. 

I only have one operational fleet at any one time, which is normally doing training exercises.  Refit tends to happen once I have a few of the new class out. 
 

Offline Arwyn

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Re: Upgrading
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2012, 10:13:05 PM »
I usually upgrade/refit ships that have good future use and doesnt cost and arm and a leg. 100% trained crews are just too valuable to give up, IMO, particularly early on, so the refits make sense.

The trick to cut refit time is just like building. Have engines on had for building. Those are THE single most time consuming and expensive part of the ship. If you have a stockpile of current engines, you can turn ships around pretty quickly.

If the cost has gotten too high (150% of new) then the ships go to the reserve/system defense/patrol fleets.

Obsolete ships are an excellent way to give big colony systems some military points to make them happy, without reducing your main battle line by tying them up doing pointless guard duty.
 

Offline Theokrat

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Re: Upgrading
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 05:18:40 AM »
I make a distinction between three different forms of upgrading:

Minor Enhancements: Basically the ones that are viable without retooling a shipyard. When a new technology is developed that is relevant for a design that is currently built, I will usually create a copy of the design and swap the one component. Normally this results in a slightly better ship that can be built in the same shipyard. Usually existing ships will be recalled for modification at a convenient time (e.g. during routine overhauls). These modifications are inexpensive and quickly done, so they occur quite frequently, maybe every five years for a given ship (as long as there is a shipyard tooled to it).

However, this is not viable for all components. Some components just form a too large proportion of the ship’s costs so upgrading-without-retooling is impossible (mostly engines, but also sensors for C3I ships). And some components are such that better technology allows them to be smaller or cheaper, rather than increasing their performance characteristics. This is good for new designs, but rarely finds a useful application for exiting designs (which must stay at the same mass, or will become too costly to upgrade without retooling). Examples include armour, but also missile fire controls. Better fire control could reach further, but that is only useful if missiles and active sensors are upgraded at the same time, which stops to be an economical option.

Complete Refits: A complete transformation of an existing ship to an entirely new design. These are often more expensive than building a new design from scratch. But as others have mentioned, task-force training is preserved and there is some value in that, hence I still do it, at least for the core fleet. The only restriction is that the tonnage of the respective designs is not too far apart, or it really gets way to expensive. What typically happens is that from one generation to the next, the tonnage slightly increases (because the industrial base can support bigger ships). Due to the large costs, these refits occur seldom. Normally this happens every 2-3 engine generations, so maybe every 25 years. Only for well trained, important ships.

Civlian Sips will not ever see a refit. However, I use a modular approach for many civilian designs (freighter, colony ships, salvagers, troop transports, jump-gate builders, and jump-tenders), i.e. I build a “power module” (engines, fuel tanks, tractor beam), and attach it to the “mission module” (e.g. cargo holds + cargo handling). The “mission modules” will never be upgraded or scrapped, as these components don’t ever get better with technology, with the exception of armour which can decrease the weight of the module slightly, but not enough to make much of a difference. However the “power modules” are scrapped and (re-)built quite often, maybe every two engine generations. So, even though both modules are technically different ships, you could say that I “upgrade” the civilian designs in a way.
 

Offline Bouchart (OP)

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Re: Upgrading
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 05:30:12 PM »
Interesting.   What about PDCs?
 

Offline Theokrat

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Re: Upgrading
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2012, 04:55:59 AM »
Interesting.   What about PDCs?
I believe PDC upgrading is currently bugged, no? Cause of this I currently do not upgrade PDCs at all.
However, even if PDC could be upgraded I would be hesitant to do so. Mainly because the benefits seem to be rather marginal. Engine technology is a major performance driver for spaceships, but of course entirely irrelevant for PDCs. What are PDCs in the end? Armour, active sensors, missile launchers, magazines and maybe barracks. Sure most of these components get better with technology, but that rarely renders old components completely obsolete. So in the end, I heavily suspect it is more efficient to simply add new generation PDCs to the existing stock.
 

Offline Bremen

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Re: Upgrading
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2012, 12:55:51 PM »
If you could upgrade PDCs, I'd probably at least upgrade the fire controls, and maybe active sensors. That way they can make full use of newer missile designs. Other than that, I definitely think it would be better to let the old ones be since they don't cost maintenance (the main reason to upgrade or scrap old ships).