Help me improve this fighter?

[Zeebie (OP)]

I'm trying to put together my first meson fighter.  I don't really have a sense of how this will perform.  It's slower than I would like.  It's for a planetary defense role, so it needs  a little bit of range to reach out and touch. It would be great if I could get it down to 250 tons.  Suggestions for improvement generally?

Keshik class Fighter    385 tons     20 Crew     60.8 BP      TCS 7.7  TH 32  EM 0
4155 km/s     Armour 1-4     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 77%    IFR 1.1%    1YR 5    5YR 74    Max Repair 16 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0   

32 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (1)    Power 32    Fuel Use 336.02%    Signature 32    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 50 000 Litres    Range 7.0 billion km   (19 days at full power)

R3/C3 Meson Cannon (1)    Range 30 000km     TS: 4155 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 24-3000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 48 000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Stellarator Fusion Reactor 3 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Armour 0    Exp 5%

[Bremen]

Reduce the deployment time some. I usually go for .1 months (3 days) which gives a large reduction in required crew as well.

Can you post the component list for the ship? It's hard to tell exactly how you divide space. If you have a bridge it's worth noting you can remove that, they're not needed for ships of 1,000 tons or less.

You could save some space by halving the tracking speed on your fire control.

[Zeebie (OP)]

Sure:
1 x R3/C3 Meson Cannon
1 x Stellarator Fusion Reactor 3
1 x Fire Control S01 24-3000 (FTR)

0.6x Composite armour
1 x 32 EP magneto-plasma drive

3 x crew quarters - small
3 x fuel storage - small

[MarcAFK]

I would shove another engine on it, or perhaps design one 50 EP Engine and see how fast it is, do those engines use your maximum speed multiplier? Fighters usually rely on the highest possible speed in order to be effective and that speed seems too low for magneto plasma tech.

[Gidoran]

I'll second the request for a component list, since fighters take a lot more bashing to get everything to fit. One thing I will say is that I suspect you're using a single size 1 engine with a serious power modifier, but you're kind of gimping the platform by taking unnecessary crew deployment time and fuel. For a planetary defense fighter, you have to understand that you don't need 7 billion kilometers of range. That turns into about 23 round trips from Sol to Earth. You need the speed to get up to actually do something about it.

Cut deployment time to 0.1 months because it doesn't need to be out there long term. Cut the fuel to either 10,000 litres or 20,000 litres and slap on another engine.


Edit: The component list could use tonnages, as well, so we can see how the weight's split up. Just what's there doesn't really help beyond the class description.

[Zeebie (OP)]

Ok, here's the components with tonnages after adjusting deployment to 0.1 and stripping off the extra fuel:
R3/C3 Meson Cannon  150 tons
Fire control 24-3000    50 tons
32 EP MP drive            50 tons
Composite armor          25 tons
Stellarator reactor 3     25 tons
Fuel storage small        10 tons
Crew quarters tiny         5 tons

Is there any way to make meson cannons smaller?

[Gidoran]

For Mesons? No. Gauss Cannons can be reduced in size at the cost of accuracy, while Lasers can be reduced at the cost of rate of fire, although that also reduces the size of the reactor you need. If you want to do a primarily Meson fighter, you should budget yourself 500 tons per fighter so that they can have the gun + the engines necessary. Laser or Gauss fighters can be smaller. I think you could probably design a Gauss platform that worked within 200 tons, though they'd be kind of ineffective at most duties.

[Charlie Beeler]

As Breman said, cut endurance to .1 months.  Also cut fuel to 1 small cell (10,000 liter).  These changes will bring you to 315tons.  If you have Tiny fuel cells available then you can get it down to 310tons, but that is the limit.  Crew size will be 4.

[Bremen]

Ok, here's the components with tonnages after adjusting deployment to 0.1 and stripping off the extra fuel:
R3/C3 Meson Cannon  150 tons
Fire control 24-3000    50 tons
32 EP MP drive            50 tons
Composite armor          25 tons
Stellarator reactor 3     25 tons
Fuel storage small        10 tons
Crew quarters tiny         5 tons

Is there any way to make meson cannons smaller?

As I suggested, halve the speed of the fire control. You wont gain any benefit of 12,000 km/s tracking if the fighter doesn't go that fast. 6,000 is decent for that era anyways, even if the fighter is slightly faster. That will save 25 tons, and should bring it down to 290 tons.

A little armor research would help shave off a few tons as well. Might get it to 280 tons that way. At your tech level that's probably about the smallest possible for a meson fighter, which are usually pretty hefty as fighters go (but boy can they put a hurt on things).

[alex_brunius]

As I suggested, halve the speed of the fire control. You wont gain any benefit of 12,000 km/s tracking if the fighter doesn't go that fast. 6,000 is decent for that era anyways, even if the fighter is slightly faster. That will save 25 tons, and should bring it down to 290 tons.

A little armor research would help shave off a few tons as well. Might get it to 280 tons that way. At your tech level that's probably about the smallest possible for a meson fighter, which are usually pretty hefty as fighters go (but boy can they put a hurt on things).

I don't consider 6000km/s to be decent for a magneto plasma fighter...

This is how I would design a magneto plasma meson fighter using similar tech (with max power mod though since that tech has highest priority in my research):

Code: [Select]

Jagdfalke class Fighter    500 tons     5 Crew     220 BP      TCS 10  TH 67.2  EM 0
19200 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 44    5YR 663    Max Repair 168 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 5    

192 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (1)    Power 192    Fuel Use 748.25%    Signature 67.2    Exp 30%
Fuel Capacity 60 000 Litres    Range 2.9 billion km   (41 hours at full power)

R3/C3 Meson Cannon (1)    Range 30 000km     TS: 19200 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S00.6 16-5000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 32 000 km   TS: 20000 km/s     69 37 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.2 (1)     Total Power Output 3.6    Armour 0    Exp 16%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

That has decent speed, but only decent since you can't fit a bigger engine

(It is also possible to half the fuel/range to make room for one more layer armor if you don't need that much range for example defending a system with a  single colony or from a carrier with limited sensors)

[Zeebie (OP)]

Thanks folks.  I ended up biting the bullet and just making it 500 tons - I slapped a couple more engines on and got a more proper 11000 km/s.

A related question:can you pre-build components for fighters like you can for normal ships?

[DTF]

In regards to the fuel situation: have you considered just bringing a tanker fighter or FAC along?
50000 fuel is yet another engine in terms of HS. Use the (possibly slower) tanker to get you closer to the combat zone and then ditch it. Speed is a fighter's only defense.