Author Topic: First REAL Combatants  (Read 2973 times)

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Offline tryrar (OP)

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First REAL Combatants
« on: February 10, 2012, 10:27:23 AM »
As I get exploring deeper, I've turned my thoughts to what my navy should look like for the inevitable clash with natives.  So, to that end, I've pulled out these three designs:

Sigfried Command Cruiser:
Code: [Select]
Sigfried class Command Cruiser    16,250 tons     1581 Crew     3827 BP      TCS 325  TH 800  EM 900
2461 km/s    JR 5-100     Armour 10-57     Shields 30-300     Sensors 1/40/0/0     Damage Control Rating 35     PPV 41.12
Maint Life 5.19 Years     MSP 5152    AFR 60%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 319    5YR 4789    Max Repair 1681 MSP

Extrek ZSX 16K Jump Engine     Max Ship Size 16250 tons    Distance 100k km     Squadron Size 5
Comet Plasma Drive (10)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 80    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 39.6 billion km   (186 days at full power)
Kiteshield Gamma Shields (15)   Total Fuel Cost  210 Litres per day

Twin Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (4x2)    Range 48,000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 8-8     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Raven PD Targetting (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
PB-1 R2 Fusion Reactor (2)     Total Power Output 24    Armour 0    Exp 5%
PB-1S Fusion Reactors (1)     Total Power Output 3    Armour 0    Exp 5%
PB-1 Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR84-R100 (1)     GPS 10500     Range 84.0m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR10-R1 (1)     GPS 126     Range 10.1m km    Resolution 1
H&M2 EM Sensors (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

This is my Squad leader with the big jump engine, sensors, and a heck of a lot of armor and shielding, though I know it is rather light on PD(and no offensive punch!) due to having to squeeze in the above.  I'm hoping the armor holds up.

Hoplite Escort Cruiser:
Code: [Select]
Hoplite class Escort Cruiser    14,300 tons     1817 Crew     2061.7 BP      TCS 286  TH 720  EM 600
2517 km/s     Armour 5-52     Shields 20-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 25     PPV 121.4
Maint Life 16.19 Years     MSP 2253    AFR 65%    IFR 0.9%    1YR 16    5YR 243    Max Repair 77 MSP
Magazine 366   

Comet Plasma Drive (9)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 80    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 36.0 billion km   (165 days at full power)
Kiteshield Gamma Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  140 Litres per day

Twin Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (5x2)    Range 60,000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 8-8     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Raven2 PD Targetting (1)    Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0
PB-1 R2 Fusion Reactor (3)     Total Power Output 36    Armour 0    Exp 5%
PB-1 Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Phalanx AMM Launcher (20)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Archer Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 50
Missile Fire Control FC9-R1(AMM) (1)     Range 9.1m km    Resolution 1
Archer Missile Telemetry (1)     Range 23.9m km    Resolution 90
Apollo-b ASM (50)  Speed: 31,200 km/s   End: 11m    Range: 20.6m km   WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 208 / 124 / 62
Patriot-B AMM (116)  Speed: 21,000 km/s   End: 2m    Range: 2.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 203 / 121 / 60

ECCM-1 (3)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

This is my AMM ship, with a few offensive launchers, but a LOT of AMM launchers, and I still have decent PD.

Portland Class Heavy Cruiser:
Code: [Select]
Portland class Heavy Cruiser    15,400 tons     2012 Crew     2306.6 BP      TCS 308  TH 720  EM 600
2337 km/s     Armour 5-55     Shields 20-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 35     PPV 120.6
Maint Life 21.39 Years     MSP 3276    AFR 54%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 14    5YR 205    Max Repair 77 MSP
Magazine 636   

Comet Plasma Drive (9)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 80    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 33.4 billion km   (165 days at full power)
Kiteshield Gamma Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  140 Litres per day

Single Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (3x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Raven2 PD Targetting (1)    Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0
PB-1 R2 Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 12    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Archer Missile Launcher (20)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 50
Phalanx AMM Launcher (5)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC9-R1(AMM) (1)     Range 9.1m km    Resolution 1
Archer Missile Telemetry (1)     Range 23.9m km    Resolution 90
Apollo-b ASM (120)  Speed: 31,200 km/s   End: 11m    Range: 20.6m km   WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 208 / 124 / 62
Patriot-B AMM (36)  Speed: 21,000 km/s   End: 2m    Range: 2.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 203 / 121 / 60

ECCM-1 (3)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

My main combatant.  It has only a quarter of the AMM launchers (and the turrets only have single mesons), but it has double the offensive punch of the Hoplites.  These ships together would work in squads of 5 with one CCA, two ECA, and two HCA

So, thoughts, suggestions, advice?
 

Offline Theokrat

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2012, 11:15:52 AM »
Bit light on the firecontrolls - you would only ever be able to engage one enemy per ship, and fire one salvo at said enemy. Adding more firceontrolls allows you to launch more salvos, which are more likely to penetrate enemy PD defences. Similarly your AMMs could only encounter one enemy at a time.

Are you really sure the ECCM for your PD firecontrolls is worthwhile? Even for AS it might be better to tune up the firecontroll a bit.

Edit: Also quite heavy on Maintenance - do you really intend to keep these vessels deployed away from maintenance facilities for over a decade? Yet another point: the main sensor on the Sigfried is res 100, while the fcs use res 90. This mismatch does not seem that sensible. Personally I prefer to have an AMM sensor on a separate ship, as you can only switch actives on and off for the whole ship. AMM sensors have low emissions and its possible to keep them turned on without giving away ones position too easily. The advantage is that you spot minefields and surprise attacks early, while not adding much to your visibility - your own EM sensors would only spot your AMM sensor at 5m km or so. Lastly: You dont have any thermals, which can means in passive mode you could not see incoming missiles at all, or have much ability to spot small enemy outposts...
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 12:44:15 PM by Theokrat »
 

Offline Arwyn

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2012, 01:12:44 PM »
A couple of things to consider.

You need more fire control for the AMM's. 1 FC + 20 launchers is a lot of wasted missiles. You can have up to three AMM's per missile in PD mode, and thats important. Most folks run FC per set of three launchers for maximum flexibility.

For example, if you have 21 launchers and 7 AMM fire controls, you can engage 7 different inbounds with 3 missiles each, across several different enemy salvos. 1 FC + 20 means you can engage one enemy salvo at a time, 6 inbounds with three missiles a piece, and one with two missiles. That doesnt sound bad (and its not) BUT if your facing multiple enemy salvos (and you will) particularly small ones (and you will) than having all you AMM slaved to a single FC becomes a problem, as you can only engaged one salvo at at time, with a max of three missiles per each inbound.

So by example, if you have three enemy salvos of 5 missiles each coming in, your current FC will be able to target one salvo every 10 seconds and it will waste 5 launchers who cant engage (PD rate of 3 per missile x 5 missiles = 15 AMM's fired). The 21 launcher ship with 7 FC's can engage the 1st salvo of 5 with 15 AMM's, then engage two missiles of the 2nd enemy salvo (3PD x 2 missiles = 6 AMM's) for a total of 21 AMM's launched.


You also want to put a backup fire control for your primary anti-ship missile launchers. Having a single launcher means you have to fire all of the tubes at a single target. With 10 launchers, there WILL be times you want to split that fire into two groups of five, for engaging things like gunboats or smaller warships.

You also want to have a 2nd fire control to back up the 1st in case of combat damage, because it WILL get knocked out at some point, and if you dont have a functioning fire control, you cant shoot.


Finally a couple of other points to consider. NPR's tend to shoot at the biggest ships first, so if your jumpship is going to be following the fleet in, I would recommend putting some PD on that ship, even if its just CIWS.

For your Escort cruiser, put more AMM fire controls on it, and you may consider stripping the ASM's and FC off of it and carrying more AMM ammo. With a magazine size of 366, your not carrying enough AMM missiles to fight an extended engagement. Splitting it between AMM's and ASM's mean you dont really carry enough ammo for either system.

The Portland looks pretty good. Same thing with the magazines though. Strip the AMM's and focus on just carrying ASM's. The magazine size is still light. If you just have ASMs, you can carry 127 but, with 20 launchers, your only firing 6 full salvo's. Thats not so good, you ideally want to be able to fire more like 12+ salvos. Otherwise you combat effectiveness is going to be too short.
 

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2012, 01:18:40 PM »
General:
Your ships are a bit slow for my tast, but as they are missile combatants they still can work (getting them a few systems out might take a while though)

The Hoplite and Portland have a whole lot of mainenance capacity, especially compared to your fuel storage (half a year worth of fuel but 16+ years worth of maint). Might reduce this by quite a bit.
Personally, I aim for 2 to 3 years of maint life in combat ships, as they will sit over a fleetbase with maint-facilities most of the time anyway.

Your AMMs seem darn slow, compared to your ASMs. Has your contracter pulled a fast one on you?   :)
Seriously, I am not sure what happened here, but the AMMs don´t look too good. Did you use Blue Emus´s missile spreadsheet (somewhere in the Academy)? If not, use it!

Your ASMs look kind of ok, but their range is, um, less than stellar. Pretty much any alien will outrange you - by a lot!

Non of your combat ships has backup sensors. This is fine as far as it goes, as it saves mass for things that actually hurt the enemy, but if your Sigfried buys it, your Hoplites and Portlands are blind (and pretty much dead). Perhaps put in a dedicated fleet scout or two for each squadron?



The Sigfried looks fine to me, but you might want to look at the actives again. I take it, this ship is supposed to be the eyes of your squadron and for this, the range of the res-100 active is quite limited.
I like the heavy armor. There are few things worse than having your ride home being blown up.


While your Hoplite has a lot of AMM launchers, there are less than 6 reloads available. Belive me, this will not be enough in any serious engagement! The two CEs in your squadron will carry less AMMs than a single, 6.000 tons DE in my fleet (granted, it has less armor, less launchers no turret and no shilds, but still...) and I have run dry a fleet containing 6 of ´em plus 3 CEs with twice than amount of AMMs.
I also echo Theokrat in that there are too few FCs.
Rule of thumb: 1 FC per 3 to 6 AMM-launchers, 1 FC per 5 to 10 ASM launchers
And I also agree that the two ECCMs for the PD FCs are probably a waste of space.


The Portland mounts 20 ASM-launchers, which is quite a bit for a ship that size, but can only launch 6 salvos (see above)
Now, with offensive missiles, there are basicly two schools.

1) Missile spam! Go the box-launcher route and launch a single, massive salvo to overwhealm the enemy´s PD.
Advantage: No magazines required, as you can´t relaod the launchers anyway. Disadvantage: One shot only, and can only be reloaded inside of a hangar or in orbit over a full blown fleet base (enough maint-facilities to maintain the ship)

2) Sustained fire! Launch a reasonable amount of missiles at the enemy and keep launching until some of your birds get through.
Advantage: Put sensors on the missiles and there will be little overkill, no problem reloading from fleet-colliers, more missiles in total. Disadvantage: No huge Alpha strike.

Your design hangs about in the middle. A good sized salvo, that will still not penetrate decent PD, but too few missiles (in the magazine) to wear the PD down, especially considering the slow rate of fire (50 seconds). If you can get the reload rate to, say 20 to 30 seconds, there would be a chance, the enemy PD would still be busy with some missiles from the first salvo, when the second arrives, letting it penetrate further until engaged, then the third salvo closes even more before enemy PD targets it and the fourth salvo finally reaches the target (at least that´s the theory)


Edit: Darn, beaten by Arwyn to half of my points :)





« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 01:21:08 PM by Hawkeye »
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
 

Offline tryrar (OP)

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2012, 03:35:11 PM »
So, taking all that into consideration(plus a few tech upgrades) here's the revised versions:


Code: [Select]
Sigfried class Command Cruiser    16,500 tons     1578 Crew     3531.5 BP      TCS 330  TH 800  EM 900
2424 km/s    JR 5-100     Armour 10-57     Shields 30-300     Sensors 40/40/0/0     Damage Control Rating 30     PPV 51.52
Maint Life 6.07 Years     MSP 5013    AFR 72%    IFR 1%    1YR 233    5YR 3501    Max Repair 1190 MSP

Extrek UX2 16k Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 16500 tons    Distance 100k km     Squadron Size 5
Comet Plasma Drive (10)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 80    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 39.0 billion km   (186 days at full power)
Kiteshield Gamma Shields (15)   Total Fuel Cost  210 Litres per day

Single Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (2x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Twin Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (4x2)    Range 60,000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 8-8     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Raven 2X PD Targetting (2)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
PB-1 R2 Fusion Reactor (3)     Total Power Output 36    Armour 0    Exp 5%
PB-1 Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR168-R100 (1)     GPS 21000     Range 168.0m km    Resolution 100
Sidewinder 2 Thermal Sensors (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km
H&M2 EM Sensors (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
Hoplite class Escort Cruiser    15,450 tons     1595 Crew     3108.8 BP      TCS 309  TH 880  EM 600
2847 km/s     Armour 5-55     Shields 20-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 85.68
Maint Life 5.03 Years     MSP 1258    AFR 190%    IFR 2.7%    1YR 83    5YR 1242    Max Repair 140 MSP
Magazine 504   

Comet Plasma Drive (11)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 80    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 33.3 billion km   (135 days at full power)
Kiteshield Gamma Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  140 Litres per day

Twin Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (6x2)    Range 60,000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 8-8     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Raven 2X PD Targetting (8)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
PB-1 R2 Fusion Reactor (4)     Total Power Output 48    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Phalanx AMM Launcher (24)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Phalanx2 AMM Telemetry (8)     Range 16.6m km    Resolution 1
Patriot 2 AMM (504)  Speed: 40,000 km/s   End: 1.1m    Range: 2.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 320 / 192 / 96

Active Search Sensor MR15-R1 (1)     GPS 140     Range 15.4m km    Resolution 1

ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
Portland class Heavy Cruiser    16,500 tons     1815 Crew     2648 BP      TCS 330  TH 800  EM 600
2424 km/s     Armour 5-57     Shields 20-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 15     PPV 110.8
Maint Life 7.09 Years     MSP 1505    AFR 145%    IFR 2%    1YR 52    5YR 785    Max Repair 115 MSP
Magazine 1290   

Comet Plasma Drive (10)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 80    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 39.0 billion km   (186 days at full power)
Kiteshield Gamma Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  140 Litres per day

Single Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (4x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Raven 2X PD Targetting (2)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
PB-1 Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%
PB-1 R2 Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 12    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Archer2 Missile Launcher (18)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 30
Archer2 Missile Telemetry (2)     Range 64.7m km    Resolution 100
Apollo 2 ASM (258)  Speed: 27,200 km/s   End: 24.6m    Range: 40.1m km   WH: 5    Size: 5    TH: 226 / 136 / 68

ECCM-1 (2)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Also, I've designed a couple lighter beam combatants for wolfpacking and general system defense

Code: [Select]
Enterprise class Destroyer Leader    7,900 tons     924 Crew     1385 BP      TCS 158  TH 560  EM 300
3544 km/s     Armour 3-35     Shields 10-300     Sensors 1/40/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 55.12
Maint Life 4.84 Years     MSP 548    AFR 99%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 39    5YR 578    Max Repair 115 MSP

Comet Plasma Drive (7)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 80    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 32.5 billion km   (106 days at full power)
Kiteshield Gamma Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  70 Litres per day

Zeus2 Particle Beam (2)    Range 150,000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Power 10-4    ROF 15        4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Twin Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (4x2)    Range 60,000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 8-8     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Eagle Eye Targetting (1)    Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Raven 2X PD Targetting (2)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
PB-1 R2 Fusion Reactor (3)     Total Power Output 36    Armour 0    Exp 5%
PB-1 Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR84-R100 (1)     GPS 10500     Range 84.0m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR3-R1 (1)     GPS 28     Range 3.1m km    Resolution 1
H&M2 EM Sensors (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
Perseus class Destroyer    7,500 tons     921 Crew     1344 BP      TCS 150  TH 560  EM 300
3733 km/s     Armour 3-34     Shields 10-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 58.96
Maint Life 5.1 Years     MSP 560    AFR 90%    IFR 1.2%    1YR 36    5YR 538    Max Repair 115 MSP

Comet Plasma Drive (7)    Power 80    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 80    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 51.4 billion km   (159 days at full power)
Kiteshield Gamma Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  70 Litres per day

Zeus2 Particle Beam (4)    Range 150,000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Power 10-4    ROF 15        4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Single Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (2x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Twin Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (2x2)    Range 60,000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 8-8     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Raven 2X PD Targetting (2)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Eagle Eye Targetting (2)    Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
PB-1 Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%
PB-1 R2 Fusion Reactor (3)     Total Power Output 36    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 

Offline Arwyn

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 08:16:27 PM »
Those are looking substantially better. :)

Another recommendation would be research tracking speed increases as soon as you can. Bumping up tracking speed will help you a lot in terms of anti-missile defense with those mesons.

It also helps in your gearing % which is going to help bring down weight of your turrets, letting you mount more of them, or more guns per turret.

Those designs are pretty solid though. Your AMM's are much better with that higher speed.
 

Offline tryrar (OP)

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 08:39:13 PM »
Heh, thanks, and yah, I've made a few turret gear advances since last posting, so I got somewhat smaller turrets now.   Though, I'm probably gonna be fire-testing these designs soon as I discovered I have a very unfriendly next door neighbor.   In fact, had to fast OOB some minelayers to be sure they didn't pour through the jumpgate(two of my starting JPs had jumpgates, go figure)

Edit: What would you consider the MINIMUM requirements for an assault transport i. e.  a ship that is expected to go through the teeth of enemy defenses to combat drop large amounts of troops
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 08:42:41 PM by tryrar »
 

Offline Thiosk

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2012, 10:19:25 PM »
Edit: What would you consider the MINIMUM requirements for an assault transport i. e.  a ship that is expected to go through the teeth of enemy defenses to combat drop large amounts of troops

Oh dear

Well first, what is large numbers of troops?

I *never* fly through enemy fire if I can help it in any way possible.  I always sterilize the sky, then bring in a commercial design troop transport -- capabable of moving a division + replacements, and a drop ship, capable of dropping a division + rep.  A division is 4 sets of 4 units with HQs.

Someone posted a lovely design for an assault shuttle-- a small, craft that presumably lives in a hanger, and combat drops a single batallion.  Fantastic from an RP standpoint, but i'm too lazy to micro all that.

I won't drop troops on enemy planets without space superiority mostly because i want to take them intact with as few casualties as possible, and they WILL NUKE THEMSELVES by targeting your troops until the cows come home.  I have perpetual problems with races pumping FACs out of their shipyards and nuking my troops.  
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 10:45:41 PM by Thiosk »
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2012, 10:37:02 PM »
Those designs are kinda RELLY SLOW.
Which is not necessarily a problem... just be aware you arnt going to be able to run away from... well anything. ^^

 

Offline Theokrat

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2012, 08:45:10 AM »
you do not need more PD Beam Firecontrolls than you have turrets however. Eg for the hoplite it would be sufficient to have 3 FCs, controlling the 6 twin turrets, maybe even only 2 BFCs.
 

Offline tryrar (OP)

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2012, 09:14:38 AM »
Quote from: Theokrat link=topic=4628. msg46527#msg46527 date=1328971510
you do not need more PD Beam Firecontrolls than you have turrets however.  Eg for the hoplite it would be sufficient to have 3 FCs, controlling the 6 twin turrets, maybe even only 2 BFCs.  


 :o
The heck? How did that happen? Hold on a sec. . .

Update: When I upgraded the turrets to lighter ones, I also must of corrected this problem, because the designs currently have only 2 pd fire control each. With that point, though, I have a question: given my current setup is it better to have three PD fire controls or am I fine with just 2 I have currently(excepting the Portlands ofc since they only have 4 single turrets)?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 09:19:03 AM by tryrar »
 

Offline tryrar (OP)

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2012, 10:18:35 AM »
I'll post the designs as they currently stand(I've gotten a lot more advanced since the last posting). I think you guys will love the number of AMM launchers I've managed to cram onto the Hoplite in particular(while still maintaining a decent amount of reloads). Currently, I have 2 full squadrons in service doing a rotating duty at providing JG blockade until I get the next 2 up and running, then I'll start offensive ops.

Code: [Select]
Sigfried class Command Cruiser    16,250 tons     1647 Crew     3442.2 BP      TCS 325  TH 1000  EM 1140
3076 km/s    JR 6-250     Armour 10-57     Shields 38-300     Sensors 40/40/0/0     Damage Control Rating 40     PPV 59.4
Maint Life 7.45 Years     MSP 4972    AFR 70%    IFR 1%    1YR 157    5YR 2360    Max Repair 900 MSP

Extrek YTR4 16k Jump Engine     Max Ship Size 16800 tons    Distance 250k km     Squadron Size 6
Meteor Fusion Engine (10)    Power 100    Fuel Use 60%    Signature 100    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres    Range 55.4 billion km   (208 days at full power)
Breastplate Delta Shields (15)   Total Fuel Cost  225 Litres per day

Twin Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (6x2)    Range 60,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 8-8     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Raven 2X PD Targetting (2)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
PB-2 R2 Fusion Plant (3)     Total Power Output 48    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR168-R100 (1)     GPS 21000     Range 168.0m km    Resolution 100
Sidewinder 2 Thermal Sensors (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km
H&M2 EM Sensors (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km

ECM 10

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Portland class Heavy Cruiser    16,250 tons     1830 Crew     2764.6 BP      TCS 325  TH 1000  EM 750
3076 km/s     Armour 5-57     Shields 25-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 25     PPV 110
Maint Life 6.95 Years     MSP 1595    AFR 140%    IFR 2%    1YR 58    5YR 865    Max Repair 115 MSP
Magazine 1290   

Meteor Fusion Engine (10)    Power 100    Fuel Use 60%    Signature 100    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 46.1 billion km   (173 days at full power)
Breastplate Delta Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  150 Litres per day

Single Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (4x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Raven 2X PD Targetting (2)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
PB-2 R2 Fusion Plant (1)     Total Power Output 16    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Archer2 Missile Launcher (18)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 30
Archer2 Missile Telemetry (2)     Range 64.7m km    Resolution 100
Apollo 2 ASM (258)  Speed: 27,200 km/s   End: 24.6m    Range: 40.1m km   WH: 5    Size: 5    TH: 226 / 136 / 68

ECCM-1 (2)         ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Hoplite class Escort Cruiser    15,750 tons     1680 Crew     3070.6 BP      TCS 315  TH 1100  EM 600
3492 km/s     Armour 5-55     Shields 20-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 101.4
Maint Life 5.97 Years     MSP 1218    AFR 198%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 59    5YR 878    Max Repair 140 MSP
Magazine 842   

Meteor Fusion Engine (11)    Power 100    Fuel Use 60%    Signature 100    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres    Range 57.1 billion km   (189 days at full power)
Kiteshield Gamma Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  140 Litres per day

Twin Odin2 Meson Cannon Turret (6x2)    Range 60,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 8-8     RM 6    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Raven 2X PD Targetting (2)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
PB-2 R2 Fusion Plant (3)     Total Power Output 48    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Phalanx AMM Launcher (42)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Phalanx2 AMM Telemetry (14)     Range 16.6m km    Resolution 1
Patriot 2 AMM (842)  Speed: 40,000 km/s   End: 1.1m    Range: 2.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 320 / 192 / 96

Active Search Sensor MR15-R1 (1)     GPS 140     Range 15.4m km    Resolution 1

ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 

Offline Arwyn

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2012, 10:45:12 AM »
Looking better and better.

The number of launchers IS impressive, the ammo load though, is way to light. You can only get 20 salvos of AMM's off. Thats pretty short for sustained engagements.

If you have a dedicated collier attached to your fleet, that's not horrible.

Your ratio of FC to launchers is dead on, and being able to engage 14 missiles at at time is pretty impressive. But only three minutes of sustained engagement is pretty short. My standard is around 12 minutes.
 

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2012, 10:45:51 AM »
I´d go for 3 FCs, simply to be able to better engage multiple smallish missile salvos.
My own rule of thumb is: 1 FC per 3 to 4 barrels, i.e. trippel/quad turrets, each one gets its own FC, twin turrets, two will share a single FC, single turrets I don´t use usually.

Oh, and I just noticed your Hoplite still has Gamma shields fitted, while the Portland and Sigfried have Deltas allready.

And are you sure you need 42 AMM launchers on the Hoplite? Personally I would reduce that to, perhaps, 30 with 10 FCs (if you are set at 3 launchers per FC - I go with 5 launchers per FC, as this is the max you can set your PD to fire at hostile missiles) and increase magazine space further.

Edit: There seems to be a pattern appearing, Arwyn :)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 10:47:44 AM by Hawkeye »
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
 

Offline Theokrat

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Re: First REAL Combatants
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2012, 11:01:26 AM »

 :o
The heck? How did that happen? Hold on a sec. . .

Update: When I upgraded the turrets to lighter ones, I also must of corrected this problem, because the designs currently have only 2 pd fire control each. With that point, though, I have a question: given my current setup is it better to have three PD fire controls or am I fine with just 2 I have currently(excepting the Portlands ofc since they only have 4 single turrets)?
Well PD Beam Firecontrolls allow you to engage incoming salvos. If the enemy would launch 6 salvos of 1 missile each round, then you would want 1-turret-1FC combinations. However that might be a bit over the top. For instance I face enemy missiles of 40,000 km/s, which come in packs of ~4. Each of your turrets could be expected to shoot down 0.7 missiles, so it would be wasteful to assign each turret its own FC.

Bottom line: I would go with 2 BFCs controlling 6 towers. When your ships stick together you will be able to engage quite a number of salvos at the same time anyway.

If the hoplite is stay with the other ships it could do with fewer engines.