How many ships should you have?

[Theodidactus (OP)]

Fairly basic question. I realize it's highly variable depending on how many enemies are out there, and how many systems you control, but I want some rough information.

here's my situation: I'm in control of 5 populated systems, and want to occupy perhaps an additional 5 empty ones, all within 2-3 jumps of earth. I want a versatile fleet that can quickly respond to threats posed by the wider galaxy, mostly defensive, but with offensive capability I'm thinking that each populated system gets one starfleet (alpha, beta, gamma, delta, epsilon) and each starfleet has all the following things:

-A primary battlefleet composed of 1 jump capable battle cruiser, 2 missile destroyers, 2 battle line frigates, and 2 missile/fighter defense corvettes

-A carrier fleet composed of 1 carrier, and 3 missile/fighter defense corvettes. The carrier compliment is probably 4 interceptors, 2 bombers, 2 AWACs, and 2 missile ships

-A long-range missile cruiser fleet composed of 1 missile cruiser and 2 cruiser escorts. The cruiser will also sport a suite of system-wide sensor systems.

[Erik L]

My last game, for two populated, and 5 exploited systems I had the  1st Fleet. It consisted of the 101st Cruiser Squadron with 11 ships (4 missile cruisers, 3 cruiser escorts, 2 jump cruisers, a fleet support vessel and a scout). As subordinate formations, the 101st CRURON also claims the 201st, 202nd, and 203rd Destroyer Squadrons, each with 3 escorts, 2 missile destroyers, a jump destroyer and a scout. So 32 military ships. The destroyer squadrons can be detached and sent to picket or determine if an incursion requires the full 1st Fleet.

As tech improves, I was planning on a BC squadron as the top formation, with 3 cruiser squadrons (and attendant DD squads). Then finally a Battleship/Carrier top formation with 3 BC squads and the attendant CA/DD squads.

Needless to say, this is not counting the host of non-military ships (20 survey ships, 5 colony ships, 10 freighters, 2 JCS, 1 salvager, and 5 troop transports).

[Ektoras]

In my current solo game were only Sol is populated and exploited (first time i see it so rich in minerals), i have:

2 battle fleets each one consists off:
6 missile destroyers (6k tons, size 1 missile 70% missiles for anti missile and 30% anti ship)
3 laser destroyers (7k tons)
2 sensor/close fire cruisers (10k tons)

A reserve fleet
4 missile destroyers
2 laser destroyers
1 sensor/close fire  cruiser

Total : Ships 29
I plan to make 2 Battle cruisers or carriers to buff up the battle fleets, plus jump cruisers.

Auxiliary ships
10 troop transports (1 brigade each)
3 tankers (jump capable)
3 jump gate constructors
15 freighters
5 colony ships
6 terraformers
8 jump point survey ships (jump capable, lost 2 recently and found my first target for the fleet)
16 geology survey ships (jump capable)

The game goes for many years probably more than 40. Sol is so rich that all other systems are poor, so I only need to defend one system. Although I have two spoiler races and 3 NPRs plus a good chance to spawn one and I have explored +25 systems, I found a threat only in the last system I explored. Time to test the fleet.

The number of ships you should have depends on what you need. In most of the games I have at least 2 big fleets, one to attack contested systems and one to stay back as a reserve. I also have smaller fleets to defend remote colonies or jump points. Sometimes I build PDCs for extra defense. The number of ships varies but as I usually go for large ships it is not that large. 1 battle fleet = 8-9

[Jorgen_CAB]

I'm still learning this game and so I have not ventured to long into either of my games, I also tend to give myself some serious role-playing disadvantages. But anyhow this was the state of my last fleet.

Most worlds were guarded by heavy PDC with missiles and huge strong sensor to help with defence together with FAC crafts stationed in hangar stations at my populated worlds or tended by small maintenance stations at other worlds. I had at the time three systems with some form of populated colonies.

My strategy is to either use small FAC (both defence and offence) and only large ships for space control. My main offensive asset was a heavy cruiser which started at about 32k ton and ended up in slightly below 40k ton. This ship is a true multi-purpose ship and would be expected to be a force on it's own. It had hangar space for 3000 tons worth of scout and strike crafts as well as all the sensors/missiles/guns I needed. If I need more force I just bring another cruiser or more.

I did however contemplate a smaller frigate sized ships to act as an escort for my cruisers. They would have been completely armed with lasers for area defence around the cruisers but I never felt the need for them so I never built them.

My flagship was suppose to be a similar but larger Battle Cruiser (around 65k ton) with slightly more space dedicated as hangars, sort of a battle carrier type of ship. I never got around to build any.

In any case, these cruisers would hold up at two different places with enough maintenance facilities. My main defence were my many small FAC some which had long range and could basically strike anywhere within a system. My long range FAC were usually supported by a command ship which were a corvette sized vessel standardized at around 3.5k tons.

In essence Earth had a huge fleet of 7CA and I had another 2CA in my most remote system where I had a perfect planet to support them. I hardly ever need more than a couple of cruiser at any time, most were just stationed at earth doing fleet training and performing refits as I acquired technology.

Otherwise my defence were different types of FAC vessels which ranged from about 750-100 tones plus recon and command corvettes in the sizes of up to 3.5k tones. The most important part of my defences was not my ships but my sensor network of ground based defence platforms and listening posts, way more cheap than having a huge fleet patrolling your area. At least, that is my opinion so far.

If I had continued with this game I would probably had the need for some assault ships and perhaps some light carrier to protect them or house landing crafts for invasions. I have not done this part yet so I don't really know what to expect when I get to ground combat.

[Theodidactus (OP)]

here's a rough sketch of my fleets and their design, tell me if you think I've covered all my bases. All my ships have a small resolution 1 scanner, I'm not listing fire controls or things like that, just the bare bones. most of this tech is already feasable for my humans, but I haven't added up how big everything will be.

Starfleets alpha, beta, gamma, and delta all have
- strike fleet: 1 battlecruiser, 2 missile destroyer, 2 beam frigate, 2 pd corvette
- cruiser fleet: 1 command and control cruiser, 2 cruiser escort
- carrier fleet: 1 carrier, 2 pd corvette
- science&surveillance fleet: 1 science vessel (Compliment: 2 scouts)

Starfleet epsilon has
- cruiser fleet: 1 command and control cruiser, 2 cruiser escort
- strike carrier fleet: 1 strike carrier, 2 missile destroyer




Landmark class corvette (~3,000 tons/6,000 kps)
- 2 point defense gauss turrets
- 1 laser turret

New Haven class frigate (~5,000 tons/6,000 kps)
- 3 25cm railguns
- 2 30 cm plasma carronades
- 8 sheets of armor

Sao Paulo class destroyer (~7,000 tons/6,000 kps)
- 5 size 3 missile tubes
- 2 point defense gauss turrets
- 1 point defense missile system
- 1 tactical scanner (1 resolution over at least 10 million km)
- 8 sheets of armor

Statesman class battlecruiser (~16,000 tons/6,000 kps)
- 5 size 3 missile tubes
- 3 point defense gauss turrets
- 5 25 cm lasers
- 1 point defense missile system
- 1 predator thermal sensor (size 10)
- 10 sheets of armor

Arirang class carrier (~18,000 tons/5,000 kps)
- 4 point defense gauss turrets
- compliment of 5 interceptors, 5 bombers, 2 missile boats, 2 AWACs
- jump engine
- 7 sheets of armor

Agencourt class cruiser escort (~6,000 tons/5,000 kps)
- 6 point defense gauss turrets
- 1 25 cm railgun
- 5 sheets of armor

Monarch class Missile cruiser (~20,000 tons/5,000 kps)
- 10 size ten 1/2 sized missile launchers
- 5 size 3 missile tubes
- Tactical Scanner (1 resolution over at least 10 million km)
- Strategic Scanner (2,500 ton resolution over at least 1 billion km)
- size 10 thermal sensor
- 8 sheets of armor
- 2 point defense missile system
- jump engine

United Nations class Strike Carrier (~20,000 tons/6,000 kps)
- 4 very long range 25 cm lasers
- 6 point defense gauss turrets
- Tactical Scanner (1 resolution over at least 10 million km)
- compliment of 4 interceptors 4 bombers  and 1 awac
- 10 sheets of armor

[Erik L]

One thing that would bother me is your ship sizes are all over the place. A destroyer is bigger than a cruiser escort, while a missile cruiser is bigger than a battlecruiser.

I've always gone with the philosophy of "if a ship is xx tonnage then it is yy class." The destroyers I listed below are 7500 tons, the cruisers are 15k tons. The scouts are destroyer class. Everything has the same size/engine ratio, so the speed is the same. If I were to design a ship smaller than a destroyer, the frigate would be 3750. The planned battlecruisers are 22500 tons, and the battleships are 30000 tons.

[Theodidactus (OP)]

I chose classes based on role. The battlecruiser is a ship of the line, the missile cruiser is really more of a command/control cruiser, though I might put the actual flag bridge on a smaller command and control ship in that fleet, something with a few point defense turrets and a massive passive thermal/em sensor suite.

I figured "cruiser escort" meant "escort for a cruiser" not "escort that is a cruiser". They are escort ships for the cruiser group, protecting it from missile fire, and they run a cannon for close in fighting, though that should not happen with the cruiser fleets very often. I suppose a more accurate term for their class is just "escort".

[Erik L]

To me, a cruiser escort is a cruiser sized ship that fulfills an escort role (PD). A destroyer escort is a destroyer sized ship that is an escort. Etc.

With my layout the way it is planned, one BB Squadron will have 3 BC squads (all offense), 9 CA squads (mixed offense/escort), and 27 DD squads (heavily escort/light offense). This formation will have between 200 and 320 ships, depending on how many ships per squadron (5-8). Though in practice I doubt I'd ever run the formation as is on paper, but rather split CA/DD squadrons off on detached duties (picket, cleanse systems).

I can also use the formations to put the escorts in front and on the flanks. DD1 dead ahead 100k km, DD2/3 offset +/- 45 degrees at 100k km. Similar approaches to the CA squads for the BC. One ahead, 2 flank. And again for the BC to BB. This gives me around 300k km of defense for beam/area defense weapons.

[Theodidactus (OP)]

just checked, you are correct, in Naval terminology, crusier-escort/destroyer-escort ect refers to ships of that class which fill an escort role.  However, I think the rest of the class names make sense.


As much as I'd like to imagine myself as a star commander with hundreds of ships at my beck and call, I don't think i'd be able to control that many ships in game wthout my brain exploding. I think for a single combat theater I'm probably limited to 5-6 fleets of 5-6 ships. Especially since I'm OCD about having 1 jump capable ship in each fleet, and I don't like having to rearrange my task groups.

[Beersatron]

For every sector I will have 3 'formations' so at the start and it is only Earth I will probably just have 3 Frigate Divisions which is 3 groups of 2 Frigates at 6k tons.

Once I start expanding and RP the need for moar firepower I start producing Destroyers (10k tons) and then Cruisers (15k tons) and then Battle Cruisers and Carriers (20k tons) with a bigger leap to Battleships (30k tons).

And then I have the biggest ships of the era in Divisions, then Squads/Squadrons/Flotillas depending on the size f the ships and practicality.

So when I am at the BB level I would have a Fleet of:
2 BB
4 BC
4 CV
8 CA
16 DD

And then have attached scouts and other specialized ships or tenders.

The BBs only ever go out with the rest of the fleet but the rest is split into detachable TGs:
Battle Line
2 BC
4 CA
4 DD

Long Range Strike
2 CV
4 DD

[Shininglight]

I generally have a small carrier group consisting of one-three carriers and associated fighters/FACs. The carrier groups ave long maint lives on the carriers so that they can take on the fighters which don't gain maint life on a carrier. Then i station the carrier group as pickets in whatever system i deem worth defending, besides the carriers i have frigate squadrons consisting of five frigates for each border system i have, So if my frontier is one warp point there's 1 frigate force, more warp points to picket more frigates.

I also generally have 2 or 3 Destroyer squadrons floating (no pun intended) around consisting of:

1 9000 ton DL

3 9000 ton DE`s

4 9000 ton DDG`s

Besides those i have my main battle fleet which doubles as my Home Fleet It usually consists of:
 
Twelve 7000 ton frigates

Four 12000 ton cariers

Eight 9000 ton missile destroyers


Six 9000 ton destroyer escorts

Two 9000 ton destroyer leaders that double as PD boats.

Five 18000 ton Cruisers

One 20000 ton Command cruiser.

Two 24000  ton Battle Cruisers

and Finally One 60000 ton Dreadnaught

Generally I only have the destroyers and cruisers but once war is declared with a given species i add the frigates BC`s and Dreadnaughts

I`ve yet to meet a species that can stop my main battle fleet or even more than one destroyer squadron. Although i generally use the drestroyers as screenign elements for the main battle force

[Theodidactus (OP)]

how do you guys move all these ships without getting a massive headache? Is there some shortcut? At my current tech level, I can only jump 7 ships at a time with my capitol ships, which means each task group needs 1 jump ship, at least, unless I want to stop every day and rearrange them. that places an upward limit of 7 ships per task group.

[Shininglight]

I Just keep my fleets all in one TG so my home fleet. All of those ships. Is one dot.

Carriers are a bit different, I generally launch the carried ships, split off a ship, add the other fighters/FACS to that ships tg attack, then send the fighters back to join the carrier and land.

So it's not really that hard. As for moving from system to system JUMP GATES They are An ARMO....GOD send. I use them ALL THE TIME. Never have to worry about enemies using them to find their way through my space, warp Nexi are beutiful.

[Redshirt]

how do you guys move all these ships without getting a massive headache? Is there some shortcut? At my current tech level, I can only jump 7 ships at a time with my capitol ships, which means each task group needs 1 jump ship, at least, unless I want to stop every day and rearrange them. that places an upward limit of 7 ships per task group.

Send a scout through. If it's not instantly blasted, use standard transit. Everything will get there eventually.

[Erik L]

how do you guys move all these ships without getting a massive headache? Is there some shortcut? At my current tech level, I can only jump 7 ships at a time with my capitol ships, which means each task group needs 1 jump ship, at least, unless I want to stop every day and rearrange them. that places an upward limit of 7 ships per task group.

Don't make a combat jump? My task groups are not organized to do a JP assault. There's been no need as the only "aliens" found have been precursors deep insystem. Once I encounter someone else which chews me up on a JP transit, I'll reorganize. As for now though, in my race's experience there is no need for a combat transit.

Also since my TG are designed for detached duty, each size class gets a jump capable design. Usually by taking an offensive platform and stripping out some launchers.