Author Topic: United Federations First Fleet  (Read 2003 times)

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Offline DizzyFoxkit (OP)

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United Federations First Fleet
« on: August 29, 2012, 07:07:51 PM »
These are merely design attempts, I don't plan on locking these designs until I have to (I find something or something finds me). I'm also playing with overhaul off, it's a logistical nightmare so until I'm more comfortable with the game I'm not turning it on.

First up, is the Agincourt class destroyer There will be two of these assigned per fleet.
Code: [Select]
Agincourt class Destroyer    5,000 tons     414 Crew     630.4 BP      TCS 100  TH 200  EM 0
2000 km/s     Armour 4-26     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 16
Maint Life 5.42 Years     MSP 236    AFR 66%    IFR 0.9%    1YR 13    5YR 202    Max Repair 45 MSP
Magazine 416   

Hawk & Boyel Nuclear Pulse Engine (5)    Power 40    Fuel Use 90%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 60.0 billion km   (347 days at full power)

Volk Size 4 Launcher (4)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 40
FC64-R100 Missile Fire Control (2)     Range 64.8m km    Resolution 100

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Next is the Illustrious Destroyer Escort There will hopefully be four deployed per group.
Code: [Select]
Illustrious class Destroyer Escort    4,000 tons     288 Crew     534.2 BP      TCS 80  TH 160  EM 0
2000 km/s     Armour 3-22     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 6
Maint Life 3.1 Years     MSP 167    AFR 64%    IFR 0.9%    1YR 26    5YR 392    Max Repair 68 MSP
Magazine 406   

Hawk & Boyel Nuclear Pulse Engine (4)    Power 40    Fuel Use 90%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 75.0 billion km   (434 days at full power)

Volk Size 1 Launcher (6)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
FC9-R1 Missile Fire Control (2)     Range 9.7m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Lastly is the Jump Tender Ark Royal There should be 3 of these deployed for jump tending.
Code: [Select]
Ark Royal class Jump Tender    6,000 tons     543 Crew     1058.2 BP      TCS 120  TH 240  EM 0
2000 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 3-29     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.66 Years     MSP 551    AFR 57%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 111    5YR 1658    Max Repair 400 MSP

J6000 Klaus Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 6000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Hawk & Boyel Nuclear Pulse Engine (6)    Power 40    Fuel Use 90%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 66.7 billion km   (385 days at full power)

MR9-R1 Missile Sensor (1)     GPS 156     Range 9.4m km    Resolution 1
Johnson MR64-R80 Ship Sensor (1)     GPS 9600     Range 64.4m km    Resolution 80

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I'll also post the missile designs.

The Dagger Missile from the Perigrin Series:
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Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 30
Speed: 12000 km/s    Endurance: 11 minutes   Range: 8.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.95
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 360%   3k km/s 120%   5k km/s 72%   10k km/s 36%
Materials Required:    0.25x Tritanium   0.442x Gallicite   Fuel x100

Development Cost for Project: 95RP

The Braveheart Missile from the Eagle series:
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 4 MSP  (0.2 HS)     Warhead: 2    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 34
Speed: 10000 km/s    Endurance: 42 minutes   Range: 25.2m km
Cost Per Missile: 1.7648
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 340%   3k km/s 102%   5k km/s 68%   10k km/s 34%
Materials Required:    0.5x Tritanium   2.8149x Gallicite   Fuel x1256.75

Development Cost for Project: 176RP

The only thing I would really like is for ALL the ships to have more armor, I'm currently concerned that right now a couple of hits are going to make them go up in a ball of flames.
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: United Federations First Fleet
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2012, 10:10:21 PM »
Hmmm..... Having the battle sensors on the jump tenders economizes on cost, but renders you very vulnerable to being completely combat ineffective with only two casualties in a battlegroup.  At the very least you should consider placing backup sensors on your other vessels. 

You don't really need two fire controls on either vessel. One is more than sufficient.  While that renders you slightly vulnerable to mission kills, the ships are small enough that it's not a big deal.

You also have enough missiles for 17 minutes of sustained fire on the Agincourt.  While it's never bad to have more missiles, this is a little lopsided;  you should probably exchange some of the magazine space for another launcher or two.

Although the to-hits on your missiles are laudable, you sacrifice waaaay too much speed and range in favor of agility.  Both missile classes should probably be faster, and the ASM ought to be longer range. Your electronics already support that longer range.
 

Offline Redshirt

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Re: United Federations First Fleet
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2012, 10:50:04 PM »
Shoe's got a lot of points. Your AMM's should probably have a max range of 2m km. That will let you get them to be fast. Also, expect to need roughly 3-4 AMM'S for every incoming missile. My escorts usually incorporate more AMM's and outweigh the destroyers. They also incorporate the jump engines, so I don't need a jump tender. For early tech levels, it ends up one escort to two destroyers. Usually I put the active scanner on the escort, as well, and give it heavier armor, because that makes it a target. It'll outweigh the destroyer, too, to allow for the extra launchers and sensors and armor.

One destroyer wing will be two destroyers and an escort, and I'll usually take two or three wings to where they're needed. It's worked well so far. Of course, there are other options and configurations available, especially if you're into role-playing.
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Offline Redshirt

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Re: United Federations First Fleet
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2012, 10:53:04 PM »
Oh yeah, you need to bump up the range and speed on your ASM's. It's better to shoot a lot from far away and stay out of trouble than have to get close to shoot a few and risk losing the whole fleet.
Living up to my username. . .
 

Offline Marski

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Re: United Federations First Fleet
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2012, 02:06:43 AM »
Get Ion drives if anything, and pump up the amount of engines up to 10. Max speed of 2000 km/s is hardly an ideal speed with that loadout, because once your magazines are spent, you need to retreat for reloads.
 

Offline Theokrat

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Re: United Federations First Fleet
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2012, 02:35:08 AM »
I would suggest to keep a uniform tonnage for your main combatants. Basically, your 6,000t Ark-Royal could take 2 more 6,000t ships with it through a jump gate. If you take one Agincourt and one Illustrious, then you are effectively missing out on 3,000t of extra tonnage that you could take along. Or put differently, you will need a larger number of Ark Royals to get the same tonnage through with a squadron jump. Since the Ark Royal is by far the most expensive of your designs, this is a considerable inefficiency.

Also, the Ark Royals are currently the most crucial ships in your fleet. If you lose these, you simultaneously lose all combat capacity (no active sensors) and all means of retreat through a jump-point (no jump engines). This is not necessarily a big problem, but it certainly does warrant extra protection for these ships. I would therefore advice to upgrade the armour of the Ark Royal specifically. You could do that at the expense of some fuel storage unless you have reason to pack as many.

In addition to what other said about your missiles: The warhead of the ASM should be increased considerably. If you look at the proportions you can see that your AMM has a strength 1 warhead one a size 1 missile, while the ASM has a strength 2 warhead on a size 4 missile. I would heavily suggest that ASMs should pack more punch/ton than AMMs. At the very least get the ASMs’ warhead up to 4, so you can do second-layer damage.

Personally, I would advise against more engines at this point. Frankly, you will be much slower than likely enemies anyway, regardless of whether you are going 2,000km/s or 3,000km/s. So qualitatively there will not be much of difference: Either you outgun them and its good, or not and you are toast. Yet, pushing up the speed considerably means less payload can be carried and you would be less likely to outgun them in the first place. This goes unless you have a specific enemy with a known speed in mind.
 

Offline DizzyFoxkit (OP)

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Re: United Federations First Fleet
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2012, 03:20:39 AM »
Thank you for the advice about the missiles and about the ships. Double thanks for pointing out the ASM's pathetic range  :o. I was using this https://spreadsheets0.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CImjy-8G&hl=en&key=tsW-t_hfarNRG2kO91LK_VQ&hl=en&authkey=CImjy-8G#gid=2 as a reference for designing the missiles... guess they were kinda off base. Here are the redesigned Bravehearts and Daggers
Braveheart Mk II:
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 5 MSP  (0.25 HS)     Warhead: 4    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 14000 km/s    Endurance: 107 minutes   Range: 90.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.2167
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 168%   3k km/s 48%   5k km/s 33.6%   10k km/s 16.8%
Materials Required:    1x Tritanium   1.2167x Gallicite   Fuel x5000

Development Cost for Project: 222RP

Dagger Mk II
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 18
Speed: 21600 km/s    Endurance: 6 minutes   Range: 8.1m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.81
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 388.8%   3k km/s 126%   5k km/s 77.8%   10k km/s 38.9%
Materials Required:    0.25x Tritanium   0.3188x Gallicite   Fuel x90

Development Cost for Project: 81RP

@Shoe, I'm curious, why would one firecontrol instead of two be sufficient? Doesn't splitting your fire help you survive by allowing you to hit more salvoes/ saturating their PD?

@Everyone else, I'll post the planned second generation when I have enough shipyards/shipyard space. Thank you thank you for the advice :)
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: United Federations First Fleet
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2012, 03:46:47 AM »
I normally go 1 firecontrol for every 4-5 AMM launchers. With six and two controls you are almost forced into 3-1 vs ASM. More = better.

The same goes for the offensive ship. Rather than splitting fire and scratching two opponents, you can concentrate fire and hurt one. More = better ;)

Offline Theokrat

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Re: United Federations First Fleet
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2012, 03:49:35 AM »
Thank you for the advice about the missiles and about the ships. Double thanks for pointing out the ASM's pathetic range  :o. I was using this https://spreadsheets0.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CImjy-8G&hl=en&key=tsW-t_hfarNRG2kO91LK_VQ&hl=en&authkey=CImjy-8G#gid=2 as a reference for designing the missiles... guess they were kinda off base. Here are the redesigned Bravehearts and Daggers
Braveheart Mk II:
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 5 MSP  (0.25 HS)     Warhead: 4    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 14000 km/s    Endurance: 107 minutes   Range: 90.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.2167
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 168%   3k km/s 48%   5k km/s 33.6%   10k km/s 16.8%
Materials Required:    1x Tritanium   1.2167x Gallicite   Fuel x5000

Development Cost for Project: 222RP

Dagger Mk II
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 18
Speed: 21600 km/s    Endurance: 6 minutes   Range: 8.1m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.81
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 388.8%   3k km/s 126%   5k km/s 77.8%   10k km/s 38.9%
Materials Required:    0.25x Tritanium   0.3188x Gallicite   Fuel x90

Development Cost for Project: 81RP

@Shoe, I'm curious, why would one firecontrol instead of two be sufficient? Doesn't splitting your fire help you survive by allowing you to hit more salvoes/ saturating their PD?

@Everyone else, I'll post the planned second generation when I have enough shipyards/shipyard space. Thank you thank you for the advice :)

Well now however your Braveheart has a longer range than the corresponding firecontrolls and sensors. While the two must not necessary be equal (your ships might move towards or away from the enemy after the missiles were launched, and thus be at a different distance when the missiles intercept their target), it’s a good idea to keep them in the same ballpark. So I would design the Braveheart with a range of ~70mkm and reduce its size to 4. The smaller size will allow you to carry more into battle and fire them in larger numbers (as you can fit more size-4 launchers than size-5 ones) and in quicker succession (as size-4 launchers reload more quickly).

The range of the dagger is still also pretty high. Keep in mind that while your anti-missile search sensor and firecontrolls have a nominal range of ~9m km, that only applies to objects of resolution 1 (=50t) or larger. Against most missiles, which are considerably smaller, the range is reduced to 1/9th of the nominal range. So you can only start to engage missiles when they are 1mkm away, and your Daggers are unlikely to catch them further than maybe 750,000km away from your ships. So really, 90% of the Dagger’s range is wasted. You can comfortably reduce their range to 1 mkm, and use the freed up space for engine and agility points.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 04:03:30 AM by Theokrat »
 

Offline Theokrat

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Re: United Federations First Fleet
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2012, 03:59:17 AM »
I normally go 1 firecontrol for every 4-5 AMM launchers. With six and two controls you are almost forced into 3-1 vs ASM. More = better.

The same goes for the offensive ship. Rather than splitting fire and scratching two opponents, you can concentrate fire and hurt one. More = better ;)
He is planning to use both firecontrolls against the same opposing ship. The advantage is that is that his missiles will be spread over more individual salvos, which are harder to intercept if the enemy has a limited number of FCs. Effectively one is trying to overwhelm the enemy firecontrolls rather than the PD weapons themselves. I had also used the principle in my Kaiserliche Raumflotte where a 18kt Derfflinger-class had 80 missile tubes was linked to 20 FCs.

Although for this to work you really need a relatively large number of different salvos, and I am not quite sure 2 salvos per ship could achieve that.