Cold War Comments Thread

[Kurt (OP)]

What is a BS0?
If colonies can build ships, how much human industrial capacity is now outside Sol?
Also the soviets have 2 big fortresses (or did they scrap one?), are they going to stay in Sol or are they going to be moved the the warp points in Moskva in order to expand the defensive perimeter?

As Paul said, a BS0 is a small base, in fact, the smallest base you can build.  It is almost as large as a corvette, but can be more heavily armed and armored because there are no engines. 

The Coalition has relocated its mobile shipyards to the Epsilon Eridani system, and has managed to build two regular shipyards there.  The Soviets also have mobile shipyards, but they never left the home system and got bottled up there when they were forced back to Sol.  So, as a result, the Sov's have no construction capacity outside of Sol.  They want to detach them now and move them forward to support their fleet with on-scene repairs, but haven't been able to spare their construction capacity because of their frenzy to produce new ships. 

The USSR has two asteroid fortresses, both located in the Sol system, at the warp point between Sol and Moskva.  And, unless I'm mistaken, there is no way to get an asteroid fort or a base through a warp point intact, even with tractors, so they have to remain in the Solar System.  They could be disassembled and reassembled in a new system, but that is an involved process.  Once the Russians and the Coalition free up some yard space, they are planning on prefabbing a flock of BS0's for mobile shipyards to then assemble in Moskva to act as at least a stumbling block to any aggressor. 

Kurt

[Kurt (OP)]

To everyone interested in the Cold War campaign, I apologize for not posting anything over the last week and a half.  My family had a big upheaval week before last, and it has taken me some time to get back to the point where I felt like continuing with the campaign.  I'm back now, and will hopefully be posting on a regular basis going forward. 

Kurt

[StarshipCactus]

To everyone interested in the Cold War campaign, I apologize for not posting anything over the last week and a half.  My family had a big upheaval week before last, and it has taken me some time to get back to the point where I felt like continuing with the campaign.  I'm back now, and will hopefully be posting on a regular basis going forward. 

Kurt

RL>Forum Posting.

[Andrew]

would it be worth the human fleet going to maximum speed to chase the Debringi fleet, if they hold that speed for long enough the DeBringi will have to match it and both sides will start to suffer engine failures. Human ships which drop out will need repairs which are available nearby at Earth while slowed DeBringi ships will fall under the guns of the Human fleet and be destroyed.

And Than you for consistently posting such interesting stories and I hope your problems resolve themselves as well as possible

[Kurt (OP)]

would it be worth the human fleet going to maximum speed to chase the Debringi fleet, if they hold that speed for long enough the DeBringi will have to match it and both sides will start to suffer engine failures. Human ships which drop out will need repairs which are available nearby at Earth while slowed DeBringi ships will fall under the guns of the Human fleet and be destroyed.

And Than you for consistently posting such interesting stories and I hope your problems resolve themselves as well as possible

I considered this tactic.  If the Combined Fleets accelerated to full speed, the D'Bringi and T'Pau fleets would be forced to do the same, and you are correct that the humans are closer to their repair yards than the aliens, and that the slower alien ships would eventually fall within range of the human ships and be destroyed or forced to surrender.  However, two major factors made me decide against this strategy.  First, approximately 15% of the human fleet ships have crew grades of either green or poor, while very few ships (only 3 Russian ships) have a grade of crack.  The human commanders assumed that the D'Bringi/T'Pau fleet has a lower number of green ships, and a higher number of crack ships, given their successful war against the Russians to date.  This means that the D'Bringi and T'Pau fleets have a lower chance of suffering burnouts than the humans, perhaps significantly lower if enough of their ships are higher grade. 

The second factor is that while the humans can send their ships back to be repaired, such ships will be out of action between one and two months, as even repairing a single engine system would take an entire month, if a yard is open.  The humans have a significant tonnage advantage over the D'Bringi/T'Pau fleets right now, but are wary of having that advantage eroded, which could happen if there is a poor exchange rate of engine losses with the D'Bringi.  There wouldn't likely be enough losses to erode fleet strength significantly against the D'Bringi/T'Pau fleets, however, the Rehorish fleet is out there, in the Soviet territories, and could find a way into the inner systems at any moment.  If the Rehorish and the D'Bringi fleets join up, then the human's superiority would be significantly changed, if not gone, and any ships out of action would be critical.

Having said that, I'm not sure at all that I made the right decision for the humans.  It was the conservative decision, but perhaps not the right decision.  Time will tell.   

Kurt

[misanthropope]

hope your stuff is under control, kurt.

idk about "conservative", the humans get to pick their poison.  feel the humans would rather get astrogation data than a pitched battle right now, esp with training to be done and so little of coalition economic power properly in the harness as yet.  i even wonder, based on the small size of the d'bringi fleet, if the humans aren't better off in an assault than an open space battle, regardless of the fleet doctrines.  otoh, the prospect of a passel of roaches showing up is a shrivelsome one.

playing burnout games against a smaller, higher grade fleet is godawful.  ive won a war from getting d'bringi's side of that trade.  look, the humans are going to have 3 or 4 ships put out sick for a minimum of 2 months for each ship they kill.  if there's enough of that action to matter, the margin for error in an assault plummets.  it was a small pile of IDEW won the day for me, and the humans gotta figure the D'Bringi have more mines already in transit.

tricky for the coalition to fight this war sensibly without restoring the russians to a position of being more dangerous than the d'bringi currently are.  at the minimum, they need to put substantially more fortifications on the sol WP than the russians have, post haste.  keep feeding Russian cruisers into hostile WPs, and then present them with an arms race as soon as the current war ends.  refuse to open negotiations for recovering those russian colonies ("we can't risk another conflict right now!"). 

or, you know, sell the russians some rope.  on credit.

[Starslayer_D]

Now things start to get interretsing. I noticed that the inability to quickly replace ships compared to startegic mobility makes battles much more conservative in terms of ships sacrificed for gains, and it much more likely ships get retreated from battles upon taking damage.  Unless the techical divide makes it unlikely for one side to eb able to do so. (Or why in the Theban campaign the Undiens constantly had to build new ships).

[Kurt (OP)]

hope your stuff is under control, kurt.

It's not, yet, but thanks. 

idk about "conservative", the humans get to pick their poison.  feel the humans would rather get astrogation data than a pitched battle right now, esp with training to be done and so little of coalition economic power properly in the harness as yet.  i even wonder, based on the small size of the d'bringi fleet, if the humans aren't better off in an assault than an open space battle, regardless of the fleet doctrines.  otoh, the prospect of a passel of roaches showing up is a shrivelsome one.

playing burnout games against a smaller, higher grade fleet is godawful.  ive won a war from getting d'bringi's side of that trade.  look, the humans are going to have 3 or 4 ships put out sick for a minimum of 2 months for each ship they kill.  if there's enough of that action to matter, the margin for error in an assault plummets.  it was a small pile of IDEW won the day for me, and the humans gotta figure the D'Bringi have more mines already in transit.

tricky for the coalition to fight this war sensibly without restoring the russians to a position of being more dangerous than the d'bringi currently are.  at the minimum, they need to put substantially more fortifications on the sol WP than the russians have, post haste.  keep feeding Russian cruisers into hostile WPs, and then present them with an arms race as soon as the current war ends.  refuse to open negotiations for recovering those russian colonies ("we can't risk another conflict right now!"). 

or, you know, sell the russians some rope.  on credit.

Yes, exactly.  The Coalition and the Russians have to somehow trust each other and fight together against a common enemy that they both fear, but they also distrust each other.  After all, while the D'Bringi killed some Russian colonists on a remote moon (probably), the Russians and the Americans killed tens of millions of each others citizens a mere generation or two ago.  It is an uneasy alliance at best, and while it will likely be stable over the short to medium term, it is unstable in the long term.  Made more so by the rising power of the other nations on Earth, relative to the Coalition and the USSR, and the increasing restfulness and nationalism of the nations conquered by Russia after The Last War. 

[Kurt (OP)]

Now things start to get interretsing. I noticed that the inability to quickly replace ships compared to startegic mobility makes battles much more conservative in terms of ships sacrificed for gains, and it much more likely ships get retreated from battles upon taking damage.  Unless the techical divide makes it unlikely for one side to eb able to do so. (Or why in the Theban campaign the Undiens constantly had to build new ships).

That's exactly what is going on.  The slower than normal construction rates I've imposed on this campaign have led to an increased reluctance to risk major fleet units.  The Coalition was shocked at how quickly the Russian fleet was whittled away, and that, along with their relative inexperience in large scale interstellar war has imposed a reluctance to take big risks in the early stages. 

[StarshipCactus]

Thank you for posting up to date maps, this makes following the action much easier

[Migi]

Did the terms of the alliance involve sharing system maps and survey data?
And good to see more maps, especially with multiple names on them.

[Kurt (OP)]

Did the terms of the alliance involve sharing system maps and survey data?
And good to see more maps, especially with multiple names on them.

No, not yet.  Although that is implied by the likelihood that the Coalition fleet will be entering the Soviet colonial territories if everything goes well in the inner systems.  Both sides will continue to work out details as the alliance firms up. 

Thank you for posting up to date maps, this makes following the action much easier

Thanks for the feedback both of you.  It was getting hard for me to keep track of, and while I've posted maps covering this area before, I thought I'd do one focused on the area of interest.  Glad to know its helpful!

[Andrew]

The map made things a lot clearer for me. before looking at it I thought the DeBringi fleet was retreating towards the Rehorish fleet , not as in the actual position where the Human fleet is between them.
I wonder if once the Humans have chased the DeBringi through a WP would they be better off doubling back and trying to catch the Rehorish fleet and force it to battle in Volvograd or Moskva with the Coalition force from Epsilon Eridani sneaking in behind it and laying some DSB-L on its retreat path to pin it in place for the Human fleet to force an engagment

[Migi]

Without knowing how mines work, I assume the D’Bringi have mined every jump point heading back towards their home systems so the Human fleets could be suffering some significant damage after each jump.
Also the D’Bringi have a bit of an emphasis on beam weapons, will that help them defending against a jump point assault?
Would the combined effects of the mines and beams be able to even out the tonnage difference?

[Gyrfalcon]

That makes the assumption that the D'Bringi brought freighters and freighters full of mines - they were an offensive fleet, that now has to retreat, so I doubt they're carrying so many mines with them to allow them to mine the hell out of warp points.

That said, if they do have enough to mine one heavily, it might be in their interests to form an ambush as Migi suggests and give it a whirl.