Gundams!

[deoved (OP)]

Yes, Gundams! Basicaly "fighters" launched from carrier, but with ability to swarm enemy ships, like Battletech boargame Mobile Armor's can.  Also they must have possibility to support ground troops.  All aviation must have this abillity.

[ollobrains]

so perhaps fighters that have charateristics of air units as well is what youre saying ? and perhaps ground bombardment technology

[Elouda]

I would love it if fighters were able to act in a ground support role in general.

However, this probably goes under the category of a general ground combat redesign to include things like air forces and possibly wet navies. Thus fighters and maybe even corvettes could be designed to be able to operate in the atmosphere too, to overwhelm planet based atmospheric fighters.

A gundam or other high mobility / lower speed 'fighter' could be possible if we could customise fighters by trading speed for agility, etc. Not sure its within Steve's vision for the game though.

[ollobrains]

good point, a ground troop with some aerial ( lower defense value) that could be dropped in limited numbers by obrital transport ships has some merit in general but depends on the games creator. Who seems to be a bit busy in real life not seen online since august 11th 2011

[Elouda]

good point, a ground troop with some aerial ( lower defense value) that could be dropped in limited numbers by obrital transport ships has some merit in general but depends on the games creator. Who seems to be a bit busy in real life not seen online since august 2011

Steve is probably dedicating time eslewhere right now as he just got the lastest patch out.

And it IS August 2011 right now, unless I read my calendar completely wrong.

[ollobrains]

back to topic, would these gundams be manned or unmanned technology or could they be manned initally and then made automated with advances in the techonology tree

[Charlie Beeler]

I don't expect this to go anywhere.  Not knocking the initiative to post the suggestion,  but Steve, and some of the core veteran players, has a strong bias against allowing anyform of smallcraft to be able to effectively engage ships at short range without significant overwhelming numbers.  This bias is a carryover from Starfire 3rdR where the bulk of the core players of that system believe that fighters, as defined within to written rules of the system, are disproportionately strong when compared to warships. 

Obviously, I tend to disagree with this bias. 

[deoved (OP)]

The main point was about "swarming" ie boarding ships with Mobile Armor Squads, who otherwise would be simple "weak" fighter.  But ground supporting role would be also good.

[ardem]

I find the above statement quite amusing, since the most effective unit are missile laden fighters, so you can launch multiple missiles to overwhelm point defense systems from a single salvo at speed and return.

I have not played starfire, so not familiar with rules, but my bias always have an edge of reality chucked in, and reality now may not always mean the future, but if we look at naval combat now the aircraft carrier is the strike arm and fighters do overwhelm ships that are of a great size. The difference being is always range, length of time available. Also the cost of a fleet of fighters is almost as prohibitive to a cost of a number of warships.

I know bias in general life only stifle growth, not enhances it.

[Charlie Beeler]

I find the above statement quite amusing, since the most effective unit are missile laden fighters, so you can launch multiple missiles to overwhelm point defense systems from a single salvo at speed and return.<snip>

Point of clarification, the suggestion in the first post is to add a capability (smallcraft restricted?) of "swarming" which I take to refer to mecha hand-to-hand combat.  There is a heavy bias in the tech against fighters/smallcraft being effective a point blank ranges.  A review of the engine tech and beam weapons hs requirements  and Electronics Warfare bares this out.  Missiles can be used as a point blank weapon but their niche is really as standoff weapon.

[Hawkeye]

The thing is, from what I hear (never played starfire) that fighters there were incredibly efficient in terms firepower/space used. This, obviously begs the questions: If those fighter weapons are so bloody efficient, why do I not put a gazillion of them on my destroyer and blast everything in sight to kingdom come?

In Aurora, things are a bit different. Yes, Missile-Fighters are efficient, but they use the same stuff as everything else. You can easily put a gazillion box-launchers on your cruiser and use them just like a fighter swarm.
At equal tech, it is quite easy to counter a fighter based fleet. Huge res-3 sensor and a gazillion of size 3 to 6 box-launchers (you want to outrange the fighters significantly) with long-range res-3 firecons and ideally good ECM and all the hostile fighters die before they even launch.

Also, as much as I was (and still am) a battletech fan, Aurora has its feet (IMO) rather frirmly in a "realistic" setting. Mecha? No, simply no!

[deoved (OP)]

The thing is, from what I hear (never played starfire) that fighters there were incredibly efficient in terms firepower/space used.  This, obviously begs the questions: If those fighter weapons are so bloody efficient, why do I not put a gazillion of them on my destroyer and blast everything in sight to kingdom come?

In Aurora, things are a bit different.  Yes, Missile-Fighters are efficient, but they use the same stuff as everything else.  You can easily put a gazillion box-launchers on your cruiser and use them just like a fighter swarm. 
At equal tech, it is quite easy to counter a fighter based fleet.  Huge res-3 sensor and a gazillion of size 3 to 6 box-launchers (you want to outrange the fighters significantly) with long-range res-3 firecons and ideally good ECM and all the hostile fighters die before they even launch.

Also, as much as I was (and still am) a battletech fan, Aurora has its feet (IMO) rather frirmly in a "realistic" setting.  Mecha? No, simply no!

As i am also a battletech fan, i agree that mecha have little realism, but i mean something like battletech's "Elementals" ie 3-4 meters exoskeleton infantry(space infantry), that swarm ship and blast it armor in close quarters.
Aurora is a great game, but there is almost no realism in simple transfer of naval combat to space.

[Charlie Beeler]

As i am also a battletech fan, i agree that mecha have little realism, but i mean something like battletech's "Elementals" ie 3-4 meters exoskeleton infantry(space infantry), that swarm ship and blast it armor in close quarters.
Aurora is a great game, but there is almost no realism in simple transfer of naval combat to space.

This functionality is already in the game, most of it anyway, by Marines from from drop pod equipted ships. 
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,1680.0.html 

Granted they are not independent smallcraft that function as suits.  But the smallest possible combonation is a fighter engine equipted ship with small drop pod and a Marine Company.  Once the Marines, or other unit type, successfully transfer via drop pod they will blast their way into the target ship.

[Gyrfalcon]

I tend to view Heavy Assault Battalions as mecha units, depending on the nation using them.

I'm also in the camp of 'I wish fighters were usable in close quarters', but I'll work with the system as it is.  It would be nice if fighters with beam weapons were at all plausible under the Aurora system.  As it is, they're simply too large and too short-ranged compared to their missile-armed cousins.

[Thiosk]

I tend to view Heavy Assault Battalions as mecha units, depending on the nation using them.

They are "armor" units... I tend to see them like this:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=1149&pictureid=10096

And because I am a nerd, I give all the batallions space marine-y names (space wolves, blood ravens, etcetera).  Regular units get more fun names: like the raging badonkadonks  

I can't think of any way to "fix" beam fighters without wiping out missile combat as it presently exists.  One thing I've thought of is designing beam weapons the same way that we develop missile weapons, and overhaul the beam fire control concept entirely.  However, I'm not a game designer, and anything I have come up with has been easy to cheese.