Discussions

[Þórgrímr (OP)]

So I would need to start the game with 15 rocket factories and 15 aircraft facories? Are they 1 NP apiece?

How many aircraft factories would I need to have researched a veritech fighter?

If you begin a game at a certain tech level you gain all the technologies that required that overall tech level. So for example, you have an Engineering tech level of 8 so you all ready have all the technologies that require Eng 8.0 and lower. But below id the tech required for Super fighters.

Project Name Trans-Atmospheric Fighter
Tech Level Requirement Engineering 8
R&D Requirement Spaceplane, Jet Fighter, Precision Weaponry, 15 Rocket Factories, 15 Aircraft Factories
Successes Required 5
On completing the Trans-Atmospheric Fighter project the nation can
build Super Fighter blocks.

No, you all ready know how to build Super Fighters at the beginning. So all you need is the Manufactories for production. And yes for game setup all production Facilities are 1 NP.

As for combat sure, let me draw up some examples.  

[Haegan2005]

I am thinking about a very high tech ground force with some specialized vehicles like APC's with serious gatling heavy machine guns(anti inf and small builidng :wink:

Given this thought line, what caps would you recommend? I think I have a limit of four caps plus at least one external.

Skilled Infantry: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons,

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15 at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti inf, +1 mobility,

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15 at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti tank, +1 mobility,

Main Battle Tanks: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 100
+1 targeting, +1 mobility, +1 particle beam cannon


Also, can a vehicle manufactory produce humanoid mechs? I am thinking about the excaliber in robotech or the gladiator for that matter. There are equiv. in battletech but i can't remember their name. The excaliber has two PBC for arms and a small rocket payload. The Gladiator is optimized for close melee and machine gun fire, It also carries a grenade launcher, flame thrower and probably other booms that I don't remember.

[Þórgrímr (OP)]

I am thinking about a very high tech ground force with some specialized vehicles like APC's with serious gatling heavy machine guns(anti inf and small builidng :wink:

Given this thought line, what caps would you recommend? I think I have a limit of four caps plus at least one external.

Skilled Infantry: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons,

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15 at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti inf, +1 mobility,

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15 at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti tank, +1 mobility,

Main Battle Tanks: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 100
+1 targeting, +1 mobility, +1 particle beam cannon

Those look pretty good, but my own preference is to max out my Cap limits. This makes my stuff more expensive, but in combat can usually kick the snot out of any lesser capable force under 3 or 4 to one ratio.

So my personal way would be to add +1 Shileds to the inf, you are after all eng tech level 8. But that will add a fuel upkeep to them, So your call. For the Inf Carriers I would recommend a layer of armor, same with the MBTs. Then maybe fast Tracking for the Inf Carriers to give them the increased chance of a first strike.

Now if you add these caps be advised it is gonna kick the cost up bigtome, but to me quality is always preferable to quantity.  

[Haegan2005]

Why no arms or legs caps?

There are two versions of the Multi-Form; one with added maneuverability as a fighter and one with superior melee ability as a humanoid. Terra decides to order the melee option (+2 wu and +1pp). At 5 points and tech level 8, a mere 5 of these craft will cost 60 wu and 40 pp. Not having integral rocket boosters with them, Terra also purchases some from Weyland-Yutani so the Multi-Forms can fly from the planet up into space, the basic Type are 15 wu and 1 pp per 50, modified by Advancement level of 8 for fusion thrusters, paying 3 wu and 0.8 pp for 5. All of course before Weyland-Yutani suitably marks up it?s prices for export...

Starkiller Aero-Space Fighter
60wu/40pp/Block, 5/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1+1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1
TL8 +1 Armor +1 Multi-Role +1 Weapons +1 Melee Weapons (Force Sword)

[Þórgrímr (OP)]

Why no arms or legs caps?

There are two versions of the Multi-Form; one with added maneuverability as a fighter and one with superior melee ability as a humanoid. Terra decides to order the melee option (+2 wu and +1pp). At 5 points and tech level 8, a mere 5 of these craft will cost 60 wu and 40 pp. Not having integral rocket boosters with them, Terra also purchases some from Weyland-Yutani so the Multi-Forms can fly from the planet up into space, the basic Type are 15 wu and 1 pp per 50, modified by Advancement level of 8 for fusion thrusters, paying 3 wu and 0.8 pp for 5. All of course before Weyland-Yutani suitably marks up it?s prices for export...

Starkiller Aero-Space Fighter
60wu/40pp/Block, 5/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1+1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1
TL8 +1 Armor +1 Multi-Role +1 Weapons +1 Melee Weapons (Force Sword)

Actually, there are those caps.  They are found in the Complex Air added Caps.

+1 Legs:
The Legs Added Capability allows an aircraft to function as a Humanoid Vehicle when necessary, allowing it to move on the ground in places where flying is impossible, and increasing its agility as the legs appendages can also be used as powerful vectored thrust nozzles or the like. Legs also allows a unit to load heavier armor, and an Aircraft with this Added Capability suffers no Agility or Upkeep penalty for its first Armor Added Capability. When applied to aircraft Legs is often thought of as a form of transformation, like the gerwalk ability of Macross Veritechs. Legs can be taken only once and incurs no additional Upkeep.

+X Arms:
The Arms Added Capability gives a unit extra motivators with which to carry and manipulate things. Each +1 Arms allows a unit to carry one extra External Added Capability. Arms can be considered extra hardpoints for the less Macross-inclined, but it can also be considered a component of transformation, allowing Macross Batteloids and the like. This Added Capability also slightly enhances a unit's ability in Close Combat. Arms may be taken multiple times, and does not incur any extra Upkeep no matter how many times it is taken.

[Haegan2005]

Actually, there are those caps. They are found in the Complex Air added Caps.

 

I'm sorry. It was late at night when I was posting so I didn't say this right at all. Why did the example have no arms or legs? Also, do you select caps for each form?

Veritech Super Fighter: 50 wu and 1 pp per 5
A Super Fighter is a fighter aircraft of near unbelievable abilities, greatly outperforming lesser aircraft in all areas. Hideously expensive modern planes like the F-22, and Macross Veritechs fall into this category. At 2 Deck Points a pop Super Fighters take up a bit more space than normal fighters, sometimes from size, but mostly from additional support equipment. They are considered Very Fast and are Mid-Ranged.
+1 Multi-Role
+1 Weapons
+1 Legs:
The Legs Added Capability allows an aircraft to function as a Humanoid Vehicle when necessary, allowing it to move on the ground in places where flying is impossible, and increasing its agility as the legs appendages can also be used as powerful vectored thrust nozzles or the like. Legs also allows a unit to load heavier armor, and an Aircraft with this Added Capability suffers no Agility or Upkeep penalty for its first Armor Added Capability. When applied to aircraft Legs is often thought of as a form of transformation, like the gerwalk ability of Macross Veritechs. Legs can be taken only once and incurs no additional Upkeep.

+1 Arms:
The Arms Added Capability gives a unit extra motivators with which to carry and manipulate things. Each +1 Arms allows a unit to carry one extra External Added Capability. Arms can be considered extra hardpoints for the less Macross-inclined, but it can also be considered a component of transformation, allowing Macross Batteloids and the like. This Added Capability also slightly enhances a unit's ability in Close Combat. Arms may be taken multiple times, and does not incur any extra Upkeep no matter how many times it is taken.

+1 All Weather Training:
Planets are often covered in varying and difficult, even dangerous, environments. These environments can severely limit the ability of planes to operate. While all complex aircraft are assumed to have a standard instrument suite for all-weather flying, this training makes them far more proficient at it, particularly in the more extreme climates, though it does not remove all the minuses of the worst environments. All Weather Training may only be taken once, incurs no extra Upkeep, and is normally a Slot Free Added Capability. If taken as an external this Added Capability is considered All Weather Equipment and is not Slot Free, taking up one external slot, and costing the usual External Upkeep. It otherwise functions exactly the same as All Weather Training.

Now I need an external. can I get a trans atmospheric booster or long range weapons? or even purchase "slip" on packages that can be changed out when needed? So I can boost the fighters to my space base and then strap on a long range missile pack?

[Þórgrímr (OP)]

I'm sorry. It was late at night when I was posting so I didn't say this right at all. Why did the example have no arms or legs? Also, do you select caps for each form?

Veritech Super Fighter: 50 wu and 1 pp per 5
A Super Fighter is a fighter aircraft of near unbelievable abilities, greatly outperforming lesser aircraft in all areas. Hideously expensive modern planes like the F-22, and Macross Veritechs fall into this category. At 2 Deck Points a pop Super Fighters take up a bit more space than normal fighters, sometimes from size, but mostly from additional support equipment. They are considered Very Fast and are Mid-Ranged.
+1 Multi-Role
+1 Weapons
+1 Legs:
The Legs Added Capability allows an aircraft to function as a Humanoid Vehicle when necessary, allowing it to move on the ground in places where flying is impossible, and increasing its agility as the legs appendages can also be used as powerful vectored thrust nozzles or the like. Legs also allows a unit to load heavier armor, and an Aircraft with this Added Capability suffers no Agility or Upkeep penalty for its first Armor Added Capability. When applied to aircraft Legs is often thought of as a form of transformation, like the gerwalk ability of Macross Veritechs. Legs can be taken only once and incurs no additional Upkeep.

+1 Arms:
The Arms Added Capability gives a unit extra motivators with which to carry and manipulate things. Each +1 Arms allows a unit to carry one extra External Added Capability. Arms can be considered extra hardpoints for the less Macross-inclined, but it can also be considered a component of transformation, allowing Macross Batteloids and the like. This Added Capability also slightly enhances a unit's ability in Close Combat. Arms may be taken multiple times, and does not incur any extra Upkeep no matter how many times it is taken.

+1 All Weather Training:
Planets are often covered in varying and difficult, even dangerous, environments. These environments can severely limit the ability of planes to operate. While all complex aircraft are assumed to have a standard instrument suite for all-weather flying, this training makes them far more proficient at it, particularly in the more extreme climates, though it does not remove all the minuses of the worst environments. All Weather Training may only be taken once, incurs no extra Upkeep, and is normally a Slot Free Added Capability. If taken as an external this Added Capability is considered All Weather Equipment and is not Slot Free, taking up one external slot, and costing the usual External Upkeep. It otherwise functions exactly the same as All Weather Training.

Now I need an external. can I get a trans atmospheric booster or long range weapons? or even purchase "slip" on packages that can be changed out when needed? So I can boost the fighters to my space base and then strap on a long range missile pack?

Lol, my bad, the reason I never included them was... no reason. I usually do not make multi-form units so I completely spaced off those caps.   But, if you do have the proper manufactory in orbit, then you could do that in one month.

EDIT: Now you do realize that the cost of these monsters is 480 WUs and 48 IUUs per 5 right?  



Cheers, ??rgr?mr

[Haegan2005]

IUU are PP right? I still haven't spent NP on my units yet. So this would be 4.8 NP per five? And the arms would give me a total of two externals for 4 normal caps and 2 external caps?

Lol, my bad, the reason I never included them was... no reason. I usually do not make multi-form units so I completely spaced off those caps.   But, if you do have the proper manufactory in orbit, then you could do that in one month.

EDIT: Now you do realize that the cost of these monsters is 480 WUs and 48 IUUs per 5 right?  



Cheers, ??rgr?mr

[Haegan2005]

The Elite Infantry block has a base Production Point cost of 10 Wu and 1pp per 2000 troops, but since the player has added a +1 Weapons Cap it has a new cost of 11 WU and a PP cost of 2. So the player multiplies the PP cost (only) by his Eng Tech level used in the design, which is 6. This comes to a PP cost of 12 and 2000 from the draft pool. So he would pay 11 WUs, 12 PPs, 2000 Draft Pool and assign it to a Training Depot that had capacity remaining to construct it. The PP cost was 12 so this is also the time needed to construct the block of Elite Infantry. His Unit Control Sheet would look like the following

Elite Infantry (Guards)
11wu/12pp/Block, 2000/Block
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 0
TL6 +1 Weapons (.303 Lee Enfield Rifles)

now a bit further down,

Terra starts with the 10,000 Skilled Infantry (25wu & 1pp). The Federation wants more than just troops with assault rifles; it?s infantry will be armed with the latest in weapons, like the OICW, and with full body armor (+2 wu & 1 pp for heavier weapons and +2 wu & 1 pp for additional armor). That?s a total of 29 wu & 3 pp. Since Terra will be using Level 7 Technology (actually Terra has a 775 in most Tech fields, but only the actual level is important here), those 3 pp are multiplied by 7 for the maximum Advancement Level, for a final cost of 29 WUs and 21 PPs.

Wouldn't the elite inf have a cost of 12 WU( 10 WU plus 2 from weapons)?

If this is the cse then the veritech should have a WU cost of 60?

[Þórgrímr (OP)]

IUU are PP right? I still haven't spent NP on my units yet. So this would be 4.8 NP per five? And the arms would give me a total of two externals for 4 normal caps and 2 external caps?

For setup yes. But in game they are equal to spare parts and machinery. Everything that gets built in game outside of units, facilities and fortifications, requires IUUs. IUUs are also the stuff you maintain your military units with.  

Yup, 4.8 NPs per 5. See, your getting the hang of it.  

As for the cost of the Veritech Fighter its base cost is 50 WU + 10 for the Caps, and then you multiply the PP cost cost by its tech level, in this case 8. And 6 x 8 = 48 PPs for a final cost of 60 WUs, and 48 PPs. High tech is VERY expensive. But think on this, those 5 Fighters will shred almost any force of lower tech aircraft it meets, due to its Caps. As always, the player can choose quality or quantity.    

EDIT: Fixed the wrong description to cost.



Cheers, ??rgr?mr

[Haegan2005]

I think I have been lost on this. What is the difference between a simple and complex unit? I just figured it was the diference between a lot of numbers and fewer numbers for upkeep and such. Like using having the option for a simplified economy or a complex economy. Now you have mentiond several times that these two unit types have different ranges. Hmm. Maybe I should reread ground units?

[Þórgrímr (OP)]

I think I have been lost on this. What is the difference between a simple and complex unit? I just figured it was the diference between a lot of numbers and fewer numbers for upkeep and such. Like using having the option for a simplified economy or a complex economy. Now you have mentiond several times that these two unit types have different ranges. Hmm. Maybe I should reread ground units?

Lol, yeah it can be a bit overwhelming at first. The difference between Simple and Complex is mainly determined by tech level. Certain Caps are only available for either Simple or Complex Tech units.

Lets take Skilled Infantry as an example. At simple tech levels they are only armed with melee weapons or extremely primitive gunpowder weapons. Then at Complex levels they are assumed to have gunpowder weapons as inherent weapons. So cost more to field.  



Cheers, ??rgr?mr

[Þórgrímr (OP)]

Haegan, I must apologize for my boneheadedness. You were correct and I was incorrect. You only multiply the PP cost by the tech level.  :oops:

[Haegan2005]

I DM'd for many years. I understand. I have also put together many games of my own, but none quite so elaborate as Stars Reckon!. I will put a cost to my current templates tonight.

Assuning that we want to survey the rest of the system that our planet lies within, what kind of survey ship would you recommend? I would think that it would be of cruiser size(reaction rockets take a long time to get anywhere), carry cargo, survey sensors, shields, minor weapons or landing bay for veritech, cargo shuttles or survey landers, etc.

For closer in to the home planet, maybe a DD setup along Coast Gusrd lines. minor weapons(likely energy), extra cargo space, extra fuel, no shields, extra engines for speed, sensors?

This is not yet a major space power with vast armadas hanging around. Why invest in such if there is no one else out there?

As a side note, what about reducing the pop to 80 million to free up 10 NP?

Now,

Veritech Super Fighter: 50 wu and 1 pp per 5
60 WU 48 PP(4.8 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

At 2 Deck Points take up a bit more space than normal fighters, sometimes from size, but mostly from additional support equipment. They are considered Very Fast and are Mid-Ranged.
+1 Multi-Role
+1 Weapons
+1 Legs:
+1 Arms:
+1 All Weather Training(external, 2 more external available)

If I remember correctly, externals use additional maintenance, so would All Weather Training cost WU, IU, or FU? I would think IU...

Haegan, I must apologize for my boneheadedness. You were correct and I was incorrect. You only multiply the PP cost by the tech level.  :oops:

[Haegan2005]

All units are TL8 engineering. I do not think that any of these require addional upkeep, but I wanted to make sure. I am debating adding addional cargo for the logistics vehicles.

Skilled Infantry: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 10,000
+1 armor, +1 weapons, +1 shields
31 WU, 32 PP(3.2 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15inf at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti inf, +1 mobility, +1 armor, +1 fast tracking
33 WU, 40 PP(4 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Infantry Carriers: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 500
15inf at TL 8 (CC 15)
+1 anti tank, +1 mobility, +1 Armor, +1 fast tracking
33 WU, 40 PP(4 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Main Battle Tanks: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 100
+1 armor, +1 targeting, +1 mobility, +1 particle beam cannon,
33 WU, 40 PP(4 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Logistics Vehicles: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 1,000
80cc for TL 8
25 WU, 8 PP(0.8 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1

Self-Propelled Artillery: 25 Wu and 1 pp per 200
+1 mobility, +1 long range, +1 sensors(UAVs)
31 WU, 32 PP(3.2 NP)
Industrial Upkeep: 1, Wealth Upkeep: 1, Fuel Upkeep: 1