First Military designs

[HaliRyan]

Ok, let's see... Oh, mandatory disclaimer: these are my opinions on your design, others may feel differently.

Maintenance is good (2-2.5 years is usually tons) but you have way more fuel than you need. One year of fuel should be enough since a lot of the time you won't actually be moving. The speed is decent for ion engines. Your armor is very weak, but as long as you never get hit it should be fine. Just be aware that the moment you start taking any damage you're going to be in trouble.

The magazine space is good as well; not too much, not too little.

Ditch the CIWS. It can only defend a ship it's mounted on and not the rest of the fleet, so you're better off using the space for more AMM launchers if you want increased defense since those will help cover every nearby ship.

Split the ship into 2 classes unless you're planning to run them on solo missions. Make one a dedicated AMM ship and the other a dedicated ASM ship. Right now you're devoting a huge portion of your hull space to sensors and fire controls in order to do both jobs. A dedicated ASM ship and a dedicated AMM ship will almost certainly get better results than a pair of hybrids.

In the same vein, you've got a decent number of AMM launchers, but a very low throw weight for anti-ship duty. Five ASM launchers isn't very many, especially on a 10k ton vessel. If you really want a hybrid ship you can probably manage it if you convert the CIWS tonnage to ASM launchers.

The AMMs have more range than they can use, are a bit slow, and have a poor hit rate against high speed targets (like other missiles). I'd consider dropping their fuel to 1/3 or 1/4 of what it currently is, and using the extra space for more agility and speed.

The ASMs have huge range which is nice, but the middling speed and low accuracy hurts. Then again you're at low tech levels so there's not a whole lot you can do about it if you want that kind of range. The big problem with them is the warhead; strength 1 just doesn't cut it. For a size 4 missile you should try to have at least a strength 4 warhead. That will let you penetrate through a single layer of armour, so weakly armoured enemies will take internal damage right away. As a side note, missiles deal damage in a triangle template. The depth of armour they reach is equal to the square root of the warhead strength (so 1-3 only damages the first layer of armor, 4-8 will damage into the second layer, 9-15 third, 16-24 fourth, etc).

That's all the stuff that jumps out at me right away.

[dgibso29 (OP)]

What range should I be shooting for in a AMM?
This is my Mk.    2 Design

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Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 16
Speed: 20000 km/s    Endurance: 7 minutes   Range: 8.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.7333
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 320%   3k km/s 96%   5k km/s 64%   10k km/s 32%
Materials Required:    0.25x Tritanium   0.2273x Gallicite   Fuel x100

Another quick question: Is it possible to refit ships? Ie - Take my first Mamba and update it to the Mamba Mod 1 design? (Improved weapons, etc.  )


ANOTHER question. . .  Hyper engines or no? They drop the Mamba's speed a full 1000 km/s. . .  Why should I use Hyper engines if they decrease speed? Tactical advantage?

[HaliRyan]

For AMMs I would try for a range of 1 million km tops at your tech level. Consider:

You have an active sensor with a range of 9 million km and a resolution of 1. That means that a size 4 missile like your ASM won't be detected until well within 1 million km, and then after you launch your AMM it doesn't even need to travel that distance since the ASM is heading towards it at high speed as well.

I've never used hyper engines, but my from what I understand they let you move at hyperspeed outside of stellar gravity wells. Not sure how useful they are for anything other than getting around in large solar systems.

[dgibso29 (OP)]

Ohyeah.  I forgot what the resolution represented.  So much to learn, so many mistakes to make!

Mk.  3

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Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 14
Speed: 22600 km/s    Endurance: 1 minutes   Range: 1.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.7267
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 316.4%   3k km/s 98%   5k km/s 63.3%   10k km/s 31.6%

[HaliRyan]

Looks okay, the chance to hit a high speed target still sucks, but not a whole lot you can do about that at a starting tech level.

[dgibso29 (OP)]

Excellent.  Thank you guys very much! I am probably going to continue to annoy you through the next weeks as I try to design gunboats (again) and carriers and more advanced warships.  Always nice to have some feedback to set you straight.

[Erik L]

What range should I be shooting for in a AMM?
This is my Mk.    2 Design

Code: [Select]

Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 16
Speed: 20000 km/s    Endurance: 7 minutes   Range: 8.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.7333
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 320%   3k km/s 96%   5k km/s 64%   10k km/s 32%
Materials Required:    0.25x Tritanium   0.2273x Gallicite   Fuel x100

Another quick question: Is it possible to refit ships? Ie - Take my first Mamba and update it to the Mamba Mod 1 design? (Improved weapons, etc.  )


ANOTHER question. . .  Hyper engines or no? They drop the Mamba's speed a full 1000 km/s. . .  Why should I use Hyper engines if they decrease speed? Tactical advantage?

It is possible to refit ships. You need to assign the Mamba M1 design to the shipyard first, then order it to refit any Mambas in orbit.

Hype engines allow you to get to distant binaries in a faster than "forever" time. However, unless there is something really good over there (0.0 world) I tend to ignore distant binaries without LP.

[Erik L]

For AMMs I would try for a range of 1 million km tops at your tech level. Consider:

You have an active sensor with a range of 9 million km and a resolution of 1. That means that a size 4 missile like your ASM won't be detected until well within 1 million km, and then after you launch your AMM it doesn't even need to travel that distance since the ASM is heading towards it at high speed as well.

I've never used hyper engines, but my from what I understand they let you move at hyperspeed outside of stellar gravity wells. Not sure how useful they are for anything other than getting around in large solar systems.

Realize that AMMs can be used offensively also. High rate of fire and high salvo counts tend to overwhelm defenses and sandblast armor off. Very useful when you've expended your ASM and the OpFor isn't shooting back.

[HaliRyan]

Realize that AMMs can be used offensively also. High rate of fire and high salvo counts tend to overwhelm defenses and sandblast armor off. Very useful when you've expended your ASM and the OpFor isn't shooting back.

True, but at the starting tech level an AMM with 1 million km range is still fine for this since it'll still out-range any opposing beam weapons. And any extra agility/speed he can get from shortening the range should pay dividends.

[dgibso29 (OP)]

Okay, my first production runs of Mambas and Cottonmouths has begun.

Next question: What does a Command ship consist of in Aurora? Will my King Cobra class Destroyer Leader be a specialized sensor vessel? Or will it merely be a Mamba with an larger sensor and maybe an additional launcher or two, plus a flag bridge? I was thinking ideally of running squadrons of 2 DDG/2 DE/1 DDL (Do not know the Destroyer Leader designation), plus a tanker and possible a collier.

[HaliRyan]

A typical command ship will have a Flag Bridge and some giant sensors. My current fleet flag ship in my game for example has no guns, but carries 12 layers of armour with a pair of CIWS (as it's big and the sensors are a giant shoot-me sign), with four sensors. One 160 resolution sensor for detecting ships at up to a 2.5 billion km, another 20 resolution sensor for detecting FACs at up to 500 million km, and a pair of large passive sensors.

The idea is that the command ship carries sensors and a flag bridge so you get the benefit of your task force commanders no matter where you go, and your hitters don't need to carry their own sensors so they have more space for weapons and armour.

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Heimdallr II Mod A class Command Ship    26,850 tons     2317 Crew     8655.5 BP      TCS 537  TH 1330  EM 0
7076 km/s     Armour 12-79     Shields 0-0     Sensors 560/560/0/0     Damage Control Rating 40     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 144%    IFR: 2%    Maint Capacity 8059 MSP    Max Repair 1400 MSP    Est Time: 2.33 Years
Flag Bridge   

Internal Confinement Fusion Drive E5 (38)    Power 100    Fuel Use 50%    Signature 35    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 850,000 Litres    Range 114.0 billion km   (186 days at full power)

CIWS-250 (2x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Wide Field Active Search Sensor MR2479-R160 (1)     GPS 224000     Range 2,479.2m km    Resolution 160
Small Craft Area Search Sensor MR525-R20 (1)     GPS 16800     Range 525.9m km    Resolution 20
High-Grade Thermal Sensor TH40-560 (1)     Sensitivity 560     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  560m km
High-Grade EM Detection Sensor EM40-560 (1)     Sensitivity 560     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  560m km

ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

That's a bit of an extreme example since it's designed to run around with carrier groups, but for a destroyer leader I'd apply the same principles on a smaller scale. I'd probably not bother with a Flag Bridge for a small squad of destroyers like that, but I'd try to include a jump drive so the squadron isn't limited by jump gates.

[dgibso29 (OP)]

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King Cobra class Destroyer Leader    11,250 tons     891 Crew     1914.3 BP      TCS 225  TH 540  EM 0
3200 km/s     Armour 4-44     Shields 0-0     Sensors 90/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 20
Maint Life 1.23 Years     MSP 1106    AFR 1012%    IFR 14.1%    1YR 759    5YR 11391    Max Repair 240 MSP
Flag Bridge    Magazine 248   

Ion Engine E9 - EMCOM 75 (12)    Power 60    Fuel Use 90%    Signature 45    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 600,000 Litres    Range 106.7 billion km   (385 days at full power)

CIWS-120 (2x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 4 ASM Missile Launcher (5)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 60
Missile Fire Control FC86-R100 (1)     Range 86.4m km    Resolution 100
Sparrow Anti-ship Missile Mk. 3 (67)  Speed: 18,000 km/s   End: 46.3m    Range: 50m km   WH: 3    Size: 4    TH: 60 / 36 / 18

Active Area Search Sensor MR170-R140 (1)     GPS 33600     Range 170.4m km    Resolution 140
Active Broad Fighter Search Sensor MR64-R20 (1)     GPS 4800     Range 64.4m km    Resolution 20
Passive Area Search Sensor TH15-90 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  90m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Thoughts?

[HaliRyan]

Looks good, just make sure it's fast enough to keep up with your other destroyers. If you need to you could ditch the res 20 sensor, it's not quite as important for a destroyer group to detect FACs at long range as it is for a carrier group.

[James Patten]

Armor is very important.  Speed is very important.  If you play with maintenance on, maintenance is very important.

Try to build your freighters with as high a speed as you can manage.  You'll thank yourself decades later when civilian fleets are still running around with those old designs (the civies never upgrade, they only buy new ships), since the freighter companies only make money by trips where they can haul things (and the more money the freighters make the more you can tax them).

When designing missiles and sensors, try to make the range for one match the other, or better yet have a greater sensor range than the missile.  I haven't yet mastered this trick.  Doesn't do you much good to have a missile with twice the range of the sensor, since you can't fire until your fire control sees the enemy.  Use the space instead for speed and agility, the combination makes it harder to swat the missile out of the sky.

[Hawkeye]

Darn, most of what I had to say has already been said, but I have typed it in notepad, so I might as well post it anyway.


I´d like to put in my two cent too


In general:

No armor/no shields. Your ships will go down when the enemy is looking angry at them. This is not an ideal way to build a warship

Your fuel tanks are quite large, I guess, you could get away with half as much (maybe even less)

CIWS: Assuming those ships work in squadrons, you´d be better off with a PD-turret, as every turret in the squadron/fleet will shoot at any enemy missile, while the CIWS will only shoot on those missiles attacking the ship carrying it.



The Mamba:

The ship is carrying size-4 ASMs, but mounts size-1 AMM launchers. This ships first engagement will not go well    <--     I think no-one mentioned this one

Your ASMs have ok speed and good range, but hit the enemy like a ball of wet tissue paper. A somewhat stronger warhead might be in order.



Cottonmouth:


You´ve got 10 AMM launchers, but only a single AMM-MFC. This means, you can only engage one hostile missile salvo every 5-second increment. Personally, I go for 1 MFC per 4 to 5 launchers.

Your AMMs will have a very, veeeery hard time, hitting your own ASMs (15% to-hit chance). This is not good. I am not sure, you can improve this by a lot with your current tech. If this is the case, it might be wise to research a bit further, before investing heavily into AMMs that can´t hit a thing.


King Cobra:
Looks good, even if armor is on the light side for a command ship/fleet scout.