Missile warship design

[welchbloke (OP)]

I found the discussion on FACs really useful, so I thought I'd start another thread regarding missile warships and missile design.
So the questions I'd like to discuss:
What size of missile do you generally use? (I'm looking at ship killers here not AMMs)
What drives your missile designs? (speed? Warhead? Endurance? Balanced Mix?)
What size of warship do you use for you missile designs? (early tech and later tech)
What do you optimise your designs for? (volume of fire? survivability? balanced design? etc)
How do you design your missile defences (layered with a mix of AMMs and GC/Mesons?)
Any other words of wisdom regarding missile warfare?

I've got some CG and DE designs from my current campaign that I'll post once I get back to my laptop.

[Erik L]

My "standard" sizes are...

1 - AMM
3-4 "Light" Missile
6-8 "Standard Missile"
10-12 "Heavy Missile"

Anything larger than 12 is either PDC missile or "capital" missile. I look mostly for speed. Speed to catch ships and shortest flight time. Speed to degrade PD solutions. Secondary consideration is warhead strength.

As for the ships, any size is good. A smaller ship (3-6k ton) will of course, mount fewer launchers, but there can be more of them. I usually design them with 4-6 launchers. A heavier ship will have more launchers (10+) if it is a dedicated missile design. A mixed design will usually carry the same number as a smaller ship, but will back it up with some other offensive weapon.

As for words of wisdom... There is NEVER enough magazine space.

[waresky]

So..
Size 1 :  AntiMissile Speed 18700 End 3min Warhd 1 Maneuver 42 range 3.6MkM
Size 1 : AntiShip 25600km/s end 3min Warh 3 maneuver 41 Range 4.8Mkm
Size 2 : Antiship 14400km/s End 42min Warh 6 maneuvr 14 Range 36Mkm
Size 4 : AtomicMissile: 12000km/s End 62min Warh 3 rad 48 Maneuv 20 Range 45Mkm
Size 10 : PDC and FAC(yes FAC-same as MAS italians)

PDC version: Speed 12800 End 254min Range 195Mkm Warh 4 Manevr 24 RAD90
FAC version: Speed 18600 End 5min Range 6Mkm Warh 24 Maneuvr 34 RAD24

note: my latest Anti-ship Size 1 r more speed than antimissile (obviously r old tech,am must re-design my AMM series:))..)

in my first hostile Encounter..ive lost an excellent CruiserGuidedmissile Clas-Sharnohost II...after ive kill an Battlecruiser Beamer,and 3 DDG..
my CG r lost Because enemy shoot without warning FROM planets missile base..and never i can reach the safe distance..
My CG was caught with 1 only CLE in escort duty..the CLE fall after the CG,do good job..but overwhelming from salvoes.
Never run too close an unknow planets:D it's only sage words from me.

[welchbloke (OP)]

My "standard" sizes are...

1 - AMM
3-4 "Light" Missile
6-8 "Standard Missile"
10-12 "Heavy Missile"

Anything larger than 12 is either PDC missile or "capital" missile. I look mostly for speed. Speed to catch ships and shortest flight time. Speed to degrade PD solutions. Secondary consideration is warhead strength.

As for the ships, any size is good. A smaller ship (3-6k ton) will of course, mount fewer launchers, but there can be more of them. I usually design them with 4-6 launchers. A heavier ship will have more launchers (10+) if it is a dedicated missile design. A mixed design will usually carry the same number as a smaller ship, but will back it up with some other offensive weapon.

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Agincourt Mod3 class Missile Cruiser    8500 tons     847 Crew     1223 BP      TCS 170  TH 600  EM 240
3529 km/s     Armour 1-37     Shields 8-300     Sensors 15/16/0/0     Damage Control Rating 14     PPV 30
Annual Failure Rate: 144%    IFR: 2%    Maintenance Capacity 360 MSP    Max Repair 160 MSP
Magazine 670    

Ion Engine E8 (10)    Power 60    Efficiency 0.80    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 52.9 billion km   (173 days at full power)
Beta R300/12 Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  60 Litres per day

Missile Launcher 10-150 (3)    Missile Size 10    Rate of Fire 150
Missile Fire Control FC160-R20/100 (1)     Range 96.0m km    Resolution 20
Ship Missile #4 (67)  Speed: 9600 km/s   End: 78.1 minutes    Range: 45m km   Warhead: 16    MR: 20    Size: 10

Active Search Sensor S160-R20/100 (1)     GPS 3200     Range 32.0m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH15 (1)     Sensitivity 15     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  15m km
Electromagnetic Sensor EM16 (1)     Sensitivity 16     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  16m kmI've only designed one dedicated missile ship so far and it's based around size 10 launchers.  I think I've made a series mistake there as my volume of fire is low and each salvo is essentially relying upon a 'golden BB' to avoid the PD and kill the target.  It was a workable enough philosophy against the FAC using race I encountered but against a more organised and astute foe I suspect the design is hopelessly outclassed.  The missiles are also far too slow and I'm going to work on a new design.

I'm about to design a new class and I'll put it up for critique later.

As for words of wisdom... There is NEVER enough magazine space.

I discovered this after one engagement.  My CG were 'Winchester' far too quickly and the Agincourt Mod3 has an increased magazine size as a result.

[welchbloke (OP)]

Never run too close an unknow planets:D it's only sage words from me.

 I'll bear that in mind.

[welchbloke (OP)]

This is my new CG design:

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Broadsword class Missile Cruiser    9000 tons     953 Crew     1190 BP      TCS 180  TH 720  EM 300
4000 km/s     Armour 2-38     Shields 10-400     Sensors 5/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 15     PPV 42
Annual Failure Rate: 129%    IFR: 1.8%    Maintenance Capacity 413 MSP    Max Repair 160 MSP
Magazine 502    

Ion Engine E8 (12)    Power 60    Efficiency 0.80    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres    Range 75.0 billion km   (217 days at full power)
Gamma R400/16 Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  80 Litres per day

Missile Launcher 06-090 (7)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 90
Missile Fire Control FC160-R20/100 (1)     Range 96.0m km    Resolution 20
Medium Missile #1 (83)  Speed: 16000 km/s   End: 39.1 minutes    Range: 37.5m km   Warhead: 12    MR: 10    Size: 6

Thermal Sensor TH5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
Electromagnetic Sensor EM8 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m kmThe Missile Fire Control has a far greater range than the missiles because I've used an off the shelf design from another ship.

[Hawkeye]

As I stated somewhere else, I am currently of the opinion of smaller is better as far as missiles go.

Some examples to make clear what I am talking about:


Missile Size: 3 MSP  (0.15 HS)     Warhead: 3    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 17600 km/s    Endurance: 43 minutes   Range: 45.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 1.63
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 176%   3k km/s 50%   5k km/s 35.2%   10k km/s 17.6%
Materials Required:    0.75x Tritanium   0.63x Gallicite   Fuel x1500

Missile Size: 6 MSP  (0.3 HS)     Warhead: 6    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 17600 km/s    Endurance: 43 minutes   Range: 45.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 3.26
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 176%   3k km/s 50%   5k km/s 35.2%   10k km/s 17.6%
Materials Required:    1.5x Tritanium   1.51x Gallicite   Fuel x3000


Missile Size: 12 MSP  (0.6 HS)     Warhead: 12    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 17600 km/s    Endurance: 43 minutes   Range: 45.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 6.52
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 176%   3k km/s 50%   5k km/s 35.2%   10k km/s 17.6%
Materials Required:    3x Tritanium   3.27x Gallicite   Fuel x6000


Now, those three missile designs are all made using the same tech levels. They have exactely the same specs except for warhead strength.
For a doubling in size, I get a doubling in payload.

If I have space enough to mount, say, 3 size-12 launchers, I could also mount 6 size-6 launchers or 12 size-3 launchers.
While a hit by a size 12 missile will penetrate deeper into the enemy armor, getting a missile through enemy point defense with a 3-missile-salvo will be much harder than with a 12 missile salvo, so personally, I will allways prefere the smaller, more numerous launchers.


As for preferences in missile design:

1) Missile has to be faster than my own max. tracking speed, i.e. if I can build a targetting system with a max tracking speed of 12.800km/s, I am shooting for at least 16.000km missile speed.

2) Range as much possible as long as I can mount a reasonable warhead. For Fighter/FAC missiles I might go for shorter range and larger warhead.

3) Manouverability only if there is space to spare (which usually isn´t) except for AAMs, for which I try to squeeze some in.



Now to compare regular size and miniaturized launchers.

This is a design, mounting 9 standard size-3 launchers with enough magazin space for a little more than 14 salvos


Gneisenau class Missile Cruiser    5900 tons     596 Crew     846 BP      TCS 118  TH 154  EM 0
2610 km/s     Armour 3-29     Shields 0-0     Sensors 18/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 27
Annual Failure Rate: 69%    IFR: 1%    Maintenance Capacity 358 MSP    Max Repair 96 MSP
Magazine 387    

MTU Typ 44 Atomares Pulsations Triebwerk (7)    Power 44    Efficiency 0.96    Signature 22    Armour 0    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 47.7 billion km   (211 days at full power)

Krupp ASR-Werfer 3/30 "Morgenroete" (9)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 30
Bosch Typ 32/50 Raketenleitsystem (1)     Range 48.0m km    Resolution 50
ASR-3 Zaunkoenig (129)  Speed: 17600 km/s   End: 42.6 minutes    Range: 45m km   Warhead: 3    MR: 10    Size: 3

Bosch Typ 96/50 Radarsystem (1)     GPS 4800     Range 48.0m km    Resolution 50
Siemens Typ 18 Wärmesensor (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km


This ship is basicly the same cruiser, only it trades the regular launchers and magazine space for 100 box launchers and a 2nd missile targeting system. While it can only carry 100 missiles compared to the 129 of the above design, it can throw one or two realy devastating salvos at the enemy. If I scrap the 2nd targeting system, I can cram in another 10 launchers, but I think with the amount of ordanance this baby is capable of throwing at the enemy in one go, a second one is mandatory.

Gneisenau II class Missile Cruiser    5850 tons     300 Crew     776 BP      TCS 117  TH 154  EM 0
2632 km/s     Armour 3-28     Shields 0-0     Sensors 18/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 45
Annual Failure Rate: 68%    IFR: 1%    Maintenance Capacity 332 MSP    Max Repair 96 MSP
Magazine 300    

MTU Typ 44 Atomares Pulsations Triebwerk (7)    Power 44    Efficiency 0.96    Signature 22    Armour 0    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 48.1 billion km   (211 days at full power)

Krupp ASR-Werfer Typ 3/0 "Nebelwerfer" (100)    Missile Size 3    Hangar Reload 22.5 minutes    MF Reload 3.7 hours
Bosch Typ 32/50 Raketenleitsystem (2)     Range 48.0m km    Resolution 50
ASR-3 Zaunkoenig (100)  Speed: 17600 km/s   End: 42.6 minutes    Range: 45m km   Warhead: 3    MR: 10    Size: 3

Bosch Typ 96/50 Radarsystem (1)     GPS 4800     Range 48.0m km    Resolution 50
Siemens Typ 18 Wärmesensor (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km

[Erik L]

I find even a 90second RoF on missiles is pushing the limit of "acceptable". I much much prefer 60 seconds or less. Which is how my missile doctrine usually evolves. Initial units are small and carry light missiles because of the RoF. As the recycle rate improves, larger missiles are designed (and launchers and ships) to maintain that "ideal" rate. Of course, the smaller launchers grow faster too. That is usually when I start mixing in recon and sensor warheads.

[waresky]

For Hawkeye...

u have been fought some battle with ur missile Cruiser?
Because am fought 2..and ive RE-design totally my missiles.
Improve maneuvre rating..otherwise missile NEVER take hit some enemy.Trust me..

So ive check ur missile..and all have MR 10..
Hope u have tested toward someone,ive few doubt who this missile can be very effective out 1000km/Sec Ships Speed...CHECK pls.
Hope am wrong:)

[welchbloke (OP)]

I find even a 90second RoF on missiles is pushing the limit of "acceptable". I much much prefer 60 seconds or less. Which is how my missile doctrine usually evolves. Initial units are small and carry light missiles because of the RoF. As the recycle rate improves, larger missiles are designed (and launchers and ships) to maintain that "ideal" rate. Of course, the smaller launchers grow faster too. That is usually when I start mixing in recon and sensor warheads.

So your doctrine evolves around having a high ROF (and copious magazines   ) in order to saturate a defence with high speed, difficult to hit missiles with small warheads?
Hawkeye, your small is better philosophy also gives a high ROF; was this a driving factor or a useful second order effect?

[Hawkeye]

For Hawkeye...

u have been fought some battle with ur missile Cruiser?
Because am fought 2..and ive RE-design totally my missiles.
Improve maneuvre rating..otherwise missile NEVER take hit some enemy.Trust me..

So ive check ur missile..and all have MR 10..
Hope u have tested toward someone,ive few doubt who this missile can be very effective out 1000km/Sec Ships Speed...CHECK pls.
Hope am wrong:)

Those missiles are not yet tested in combat, but simillar were.

I only get a hit rate of about 40 to 50% on ships of 2.500 km/s speed, and you are right, better MR would be nice, but that would increase the size to 4. Reducing the salvo by 25% to increase hit rate by 25% doesn´t seem to be efficient either, given that less missiles will be more vulnerable to enemy PD. I usually try to make up for low MR by increasing speed as much as possible.

Well, the future will tell. I am currently waiting for 4.0 (or perhaps 4.1) to start a new campaign, so I am only playing around atm.

[Erik L]

Here are a couple missile designs from the last game I've played.

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AAM-XII
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 2    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 58
Speed: 51200 km/s    Endurance: 23 minutes   Range: 72.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.5533
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 2969.6%   3k km/s 986%   5k km/s 593.9%   10k km/s 297%
Materials Required:    0.5x Tritanium   1.8033x Gallicite   Fuel x250

Development Cost for Project: 255RP


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SSMs-XII
Missile Size: 4 MSP  (0.2 HS)     Warhead: 12    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 50
Speed: 32000 km/s    Endurance: 94 minutes   Range: 180.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 6.1333
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1600%   3k km/s 500%   5k km/s 320%   10k km/s 160%
Materials Required:    3x Tritanium   5.8833x Gallicite   Fuel x2500

Development Cost for Project: 613RP


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SSMm-XII
Missile Size: 8 MSP  (0.4 HS)     Warhead: 36    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 30
Speed: 32000 km/s    Endurance: 94 minutes   Range: 180.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 13.7667
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 960%   3k km/s 300%   5k km/s 192%   10k km/s 96%
Materials Required:    9x Tritanium   8.0167x Gallicite   Fuel x5000

Development Cost for Project: 1377RP


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PDCM-XII
Missile Size: 24 MSP  (1.2 HS)     Warhead: 96    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 23
Speed: 42700 km/s    Endurance: 70 minutes   Range: 180.2m km
Cost Per Missile: 41.3917
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 982.1%   3k km/s 322%   5k km/s 196.4%   10k km/s 98.2%
Materials Required:    24x Tritanium   24.8167x Gallicite   Fuel x15000

Development Cost for Project: 4139RP

Current fleet plans are 4 Knox class BC, 4 Saratoga class BC, and 8 Pegasus class CAE.

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Knox class Battlecruiser    16000 tons     1734 Crew     11341.5 BP      TCS 320  TH 120  EM 1800
6250 km/s     Armour 5-56     Shields 60-300     Sensors 32/32/0/0     Damage Control Rating 124     PPV 84
Annual Failure Rate: 512%    IFR: 7.1%    Maintenance Capacity 1772 MSP    Max Repair 1650 MSP
Flag Bridge    Magazine 1444    

SCAM Drive (10)    Power 200    Efficiency 0.25    Signature 12    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 470,000 Litres    Range 211.5 billion km   (391 days at full power)
Omicron R300/15 Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  150 Litres per day

Arbalest PD Missile Launcher (4)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Avalanche Medium Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 8    Rate of Fire 30
Arbalest PD Suite (2)     Range 18.0m km    Resolution 1
Avalanche Missile Suite (2)     Range 216.0m km    Resolution 40
AAM-XII (644)  Speed: 51200 km/s   End: 23.4 minutes    Range: 72m km   Warhead: 2    MR: 58    Size: 1
SSMm-XII (100)  Speed: 32000 km/s   End: 93.7 minutes    Range: 180m km   Warhead: 36    MR: 30    Size: 8

Active Search Sensor S300-R40/15 (1)     GPS 12000     Range 120.0m km    Resolution 40
Thermal Sensor TH1-32/15 (1)     Sensitivity 32     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  32m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-32/15 (1)     Sensitivity 32     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  32m km

ECCM-6 (4)         ECM 60



Code: [Select]

Saratoga class Battlecruiser    17850 tons     2238 Crew     13940 BP      TCS 357  TH 120  EM 5400
5602 km/s     Armour 10-60     Shields 180-300     Sensors 32/32/0/0     Damage Control Rating 151     PPV 138
Annual Failure Rate: 2548%    IFR: 35.4%    Maintenance Capacity 488 MSP    Max Repair 990 MSP

SCAM Drive (10)    Power 200    Efficiency 0.25    Signature 12    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres    Range 121.0 billion km   (250 days at full power)
Omicron R300/15 Shields (30)   Total Fuel Cost  450 Litres per day

40cm C10 Far X-Ray Laser (2)    Range 600,000km     TS: 8000 km/s     Power 40-10     RM 8    ROF 20        40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 35 32
60cm C10 Plasma Carronade (6)    Range 600,000km     TS: 8000 km/s     Power 96-10     RM 1    ROF 50        96 48 32 24 19 16 13 12 10 9
FC Suite Mk 7 (4)    Max Range: 600,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     98 97 95 93 92 90 88 87 85 83
Solid-core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-6 (4)     Total Power Output 320    Armour 6    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor S300-R40/15 (1)     GPS 12000     Range 120.0m km    Resolution 40
Thermal Sensor TH1-32/15 (1)     Sensitivity 32     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  32m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-32/15 (1)     Sensitivity 32     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  32m km

ECCM-6 (4)         ECM 60



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Pegasus class Heavy Escort Cruiser    14600 tons     1000 Crew     15915.6 BP      TCS 292  TH 72  EM 900
4109 km/s     Armour 3-53     Shields 30-300     Sensors 32/32/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 74
Annual Failure Rate: 1705%    IFR: 23.7%    Maintenance Capacity 681 MSP    Max Repair 3960 MSP
Magazine 1810    

SCAM Drive (6)    Power 200    Efficiency 0.25    Signature 12    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 24.7 billion km   (69 days at full power)
Omicron R300/15 Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  75 Litres per day

Quad Gauss Cannon R5-100 Turret (2x20)    Range 50,000km     TS: 32000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 5    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
PD FC Suite Mk 6 (2)    Max Range: 600,000 km   TS: 32000 km/s     98 97 95 93 92 90 88 87 85 83

Arbalest PD Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Arbalest PD Suite (2)     Range 18.0m km    Resolution 1
AAM-XII (1810)  Speed: 51200 km/s   End: 23.4 minutes    Range: 72m km   Warhead: 2    MR: 58    Size: 1

Active Search Sensor S300-R40/15 (1)     GPS 12000     Range 120.0m km    Resolution 40
Thermal Sensor TH1-32/15 (1)     Sensitivity 32     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  32m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-32/15 (1)     Sensitivity 32     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  32m km

ECCM-6 (2)         ECM 60
Yeah, the Arbalest PD Suite is a bit light on the range compared to the PD missiles. Just haven't had time to update the suites.

But, I've got 96 AAM-XII in the air every 5 seconds, and I can sustain that rate for nearly 18 minutes before running dry. Offensively, I've only got 5 minutes of missile fire. Of course, there's also the Saratogas which won't run dry.

[welchbloke (OP)]

These are obviously a far higher tech than my ships but I can see the design philosophy behind them.  I have a question though, looking at your designs, thanks to the Pegasus, the overall fleet speed is 4109 km/s.  The Knox and the Saratoga obviously have much higher speeds; did you consider designing a higher speed CAE?

[Erik L]

These are obviously a far higher tech than my ships but I can see the design philosophy behind them.  I have a question though, looking at your designs, thanks to the Pegasus, the overall fleet speed is 4109 km/s.  The Knox and the Saratoga obviously have much higher speeds; did you consider designing a higher speed CAE?

I thought about it, but I was constrained by size limitations on the available shipyards. I'd either have the ability to build Pegasus class ships at the same time as the Saratogas and Knoxes, or trade off and wait for retooling.

[Cassaralla]

I usually follow the small is better philosophy as well.

Counter Missiles are Size 1

Anti-Ship Missiles are Size 4 to 6

Bombardment Missiles are Size 8 to 12

PDC Missiles are Size 12 to 24

I favour speed on everything but my bombardment missiles, those usually have the biggest, dirtiest warhead I can manage for dropping on enemies heads after the Anti Ship missiles and the fleet have taken out the defences and I'm not prepared for an orbital invasion.

I'm on a trip right now so copies of my missile designs will go up once I've returned home.