Author Topic: Missile Range  (Read 1583 times)

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Offline Ektor (OP)

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Missile Range
« on: October 29, 2021, 10:22:29 PM »
I was looking at a post on Reddit about what people do for RP, and a lot of people seem to play with missiles disabled and want a checkbox to stop NPRs to spawn with missile templates. I'm all for different playstyles, but I was wondering whether so much of this is due to the rather extreme, although lower than in VB6, range that missiles have. I wish there was some way to massively increase the rate which missile engines consume fuel, perhaps to 200% or even 300% their current amount. Don't you think it would be more tactically engaging if all missile fights took place are much smaller distances? Still far longer than beam, but much closer than what we have today. Missile combat feels a bit... impersonal, I LOVE missiles and I love how Aurora models them, but beam brawls feel much 'uglier,' it feels more deadly and high stakes, and the process of closing in to your enemies and so offers as much thrill as a turn based game can give. I wish this was a toggable option, but this would probably mess the AI, but I'd love if there was some way to keep present missile range, but add options, like the research rate %, to increase percentages of missile fuel consumption and otherwise keep most missiles the same, keeping their speed but slashing their range.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Missile Range
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2021, 10:46:34 PM »
Cutting missile range will not really do very much to change how missiles currently work, unless we cut it by a factor of 20, 25, or more so that missile ranges are only 5-10m km at most relevant tech levels - even then I am not sure it will change anything. The "problem" (I do not consider it so, but for the sake of discussion) is that a fleet can usually fire off their entire magazine of ASMs and retreat before a beam fleet can ever get into range, so unless the beam fleet has a greater speed they have little hope of engaging in meaningful combat. Given this, missile ranges make sense as they currently stand because they can reach out to typical sensor/MFC ranges without undue difficulty, which is important to keep the sensor/MFC aspect of ship design reasonable as well.

Personally, I like missiles as they are for the most part but I wish NPRs could use them more dynamically, i.e., reduced-size or box launchers for greater volley sizes and better AMM tactics to stand a chance against the same from a player. Unfortunately we will not ever see an AI which is even 1/10 as competent as a seasoned player. However for player vs player fights, missiles and beams both have their place in a real fleet engagement. It is a fun balance of power but not one you see too often against the NPRs as they simply lack tactical acumen.

If you really want to cut missile ranges you can try slashing the fuel efficiency techs in the DB to 1/5, 1/10 or so, this will also affect ships so you must be careful but most ship designs can stand to be a bit slower and more fuel-heavy without suffering too badly.
 
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Offline Ektor (OP)

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Re: Missile Range
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2021, 10:48:47 PM »
Can you DB edit the fuel consumption increase/decrease for boosted engines? So a max boost missile engine would be much shorter ranged than currently.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Missile Range
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2021, 10:49:37 PM »
Can you DB edit the fuel consumption increase/decrease for boosted engines? So a max boost missile engine would be much shorter ranged than currently.

Not to my knowledge, no. Both the boost and overboost modifiers to fuel consumption are hardcoded expressions.
 
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Offline Ektor (OP)

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Re: Missile Range
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2021, 11:03:13 PM »
If I make this DB edit you're suggesting, which I'm considering, will the NPRs be even worse at fueling themselves than they already are? I'm not sure how they calculate how they distribute their fuel, although I know that they'll move back to a fuel source as soon as they run out.
 

Offline Iceranger

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Re: Missile Range
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2021, 11:09:16 PM »
If I make this DB edit you're suggesting, which I'm considering, will the NPRs be even worse at fueling themselves than they already are? I'm not sure how they calculate how they distribute their fuel, although I know that they'll move back to a fuel source as soon as they run out.

Yes the NPR will also use more fuel if the fuel efficiency is lowered..
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Missile Range
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2021, 11:51:46 PM »
If I make this DB edit you're suggesting, which I'm considering, will the NPRs be even worse at fueling themselves than they already are? I'm not sure how they calculate how they distribute their fuel, although I know that they'll move back to a fuel source as soon as they run out.

Yes and no.

If you just straight reduce the fuel efficiency for every tech, the NPRs will suffer badly. However, you can leave the first tech alone and nerf every other tech, and then house-rule for the player race to always research at least one fuel efficiency tech which will in fact reduce fuel efficiency. This will work because the NPRs AFAIK will not research fuel efficiency at all, strange but true.

Of course this leaves you back at square one a bit, since the NPR missiles will still have long ranges, so I would only recommend doing this for a multiple player races game when you can tolerate the NPRs being "boring" as long as there is some potential for thrilling PvP combat.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Missile Range
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2021, 09:09:38 AM »
This will work because the NPRs AFAIK will not research fuel efficiency at all, strange but true.

I checked and you are correct. I've fixed that for v2.0.
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Missile Range
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2021, 10:02:21 AM »
This will work because the NPRs AFAIK will not research fuel efficiency at all, strange but true.

I checked and you are correct. I've fixed that for v2.0.

Oh good, then you can ignore that line of my post in the bug thread about NPR research.  :P