Author Topic: Solar Emperium's First Fleet  (Read 1388 times)

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Offline DizzyFoxkit (OP)

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Solar Emperium's First Fleet
« on: February 09, 2017, 09:20:39 PM »
hey I wanted some critique on the first series of ships I'm currently designing. I do have some problems with the designs but at my current tech level I just can't adequately deal with them without making some less suitable flaws. Heads up on some of the designs: I have the missile series listed in () as some missiles are suited for another task. I saw a post earlier about conventional fighter designs that I REALLY liked so I'm borrowing some ideas from that .^^

I'll be posting the front line ships, followed by the secondary ships, then fighters used for both ships, ending with missile designs.

So first up, the Duke of York class Battleship. Considered to be a secondary strike arm for any given fleet yet carrying it's own set of fighters if it needs some extra punch or some extra utility. It is also the primary set of eyes for the fleet. While there are some sensor fighters in service, they don't have nearly the range that the sensors on the Duke of York have.
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Duke of York class Battleship    10,000 tons     261 Crew     1742.4 BP      TCS 200  TH 900  EM 180
4500 km/s     Armour 4-41     Shields 6-150     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 16     PPV 20
Maint Life 2.5 Years     MSP 653    AFR 133%    IFR 1.9%    1YR 146    5YR 2183    Max Repair 320 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Flight Crew Berths 0   
Hangar Deck Capacity 1000 tons     Magazine 196   

Osborne & Walsh Mini Slipstream Drive (5)    Power 180    Fuel Use 198.41%    Signature 180    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 900,000 Litres    Range 8.2 billion km   (21 days at full power)
Steele International R150/192 Alpha Shields (6)   Total Fuel Cost  48 Litres per hour  (1,152 per day)

Hopkins Precision Arms Missile Launcher (5)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 40
Oztech Missile Fire Control (1)     Range 268.8m km    Resolution 100
(Saber) Rapier Missile (10)  Speed: 18,000 km/s   End: 26.8m    Range: 28.9m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 102/61/30
(Saber) Flacion Missile (39) Speed: 18,000 km/s   End: 143m    Range: 154.4m km  WH: 4    Size: 4    TH:  90/54/27

Oztech Active Search Sensor (1)     GPS 32000     Range 256.0m km    Resolution 100

Strike Group
4x Hood Fighter   Speed: 3614 km/s    Size: 4.98

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
What I'm not happy with:
  • Magazine Size
  • Missile Launcher Fire Rate
The amount of missiles I can carry just feels too small. Not enough room for 2 reloads for the fighters, and not enough for 9 reloads for the main guns, but it'll do.
So this complaint about the fire rate is going to go for all launchers not on a fighter, I do wish it was faster and it is a priority to get that research.

Next up is Iron Duke Battlecruiser which will carry the task of defending fleet excursions.
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Iron Duke class Battlecruiser    10,000 tons     271 Crew     1843.6 BP      TCS 200  TH 900  EM 0
4500 km/s     Armour 5-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 14     PPV 30
Maint Life 2.48 Years     MSP 461    AFR 200%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 104    5YR 1556    Max Repair 160 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 294   

Osborne & Walsh Mini Slipstream Drive (5)    Power 180    Fuel Use 198.41%    Signature 180    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 1,050,000 Litres    Range 9.5 billion km   (24 days at full power)

Kennedy Dynamics Missile Launcher (30)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Kennedy Dynamics Missile Fire Control FC13-R1 (6)     Range 13.4m km    Resolution 1
(Falcon) Perrigrin Missile (294)  Speed: 25,200 km/s   End: 2.5m    Range: 3.8m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 92/55/27

Kennedy Dynamics Active Search Sensor MR12-R1 (1)     GPS 160     Range 12.8m km    MCR 1.4m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
I don't actually have many gripes with this design. I'm not seeing any massive flaws besides maybe it's reload potential with only 7 spare reloads. It has good operational range, and I think it'll do the job quite well.

For the main striking arm of the fleet, the Vanguard class Carrier will be responsible for allowing the fleet to reach out and touch the enemy.
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Vanguard class Carrier    12,000 tons     196 Crew     1685.2 BP      TCS 240  TH 1080  EM 0
4500 km/s     Armour 4-46     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 18     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.57 Years     MSP 702    AFR 144%    IFR 2%    1YR 149    5YR 2234    Max Repair 180 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Flight Crew Berths 20   
Hangar Deck Capacity 3000 tons     Magazine 176   

Osborne & Walsh Slipstream Drive (3)    Power 360    Fuel Use 176.36%    Signature 360    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 2,820,000 Litres    Range 24.0 billion km   (61 days at full power)

Strike Group
10x Hood Fighter   Speed: 3614 km/s    Size: 4.98
2x Robin Fighter-Scout   Speed: 3757 km/s    Size: 4.79

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Oh man, where to start on this
  • While this glorified freighter is the heaviest in the fleet, that makes it unable to transit through wormholes with the rest of the fleet.
  • The engines are of a different design then the rest of the fleet, which means continuing to design this type of ship will be expensive in RP
  • for being so large it doesn't carry very many fighters. This can be addressed by making the fighters smaller and is a priority
  • it might be carrying a few too many reloads for the fighter compliment. it currently has enough for over 8 full reloads.[/i]
Please note that this is my first time using fighters and carriers in a fleet doctrine. Overall I'm happy with the design but I wish I could get more out of it.

Lastly, is the County class Fleet Support Vessel for ferrying the fleet around and providing limited reloads for prolonged engagements.
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County class Fleet Support Vessel    10,000 tons     217 Crew     1441.2 BP      TCS 200  TH 900  EM 0
4500 km/s    JR 4-50     Armour 3-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 16     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.56 Years     MSP 540    AFR 133%    IFR 1.9%    1YR 116    5YR 1735    Max Repair 227 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 264   

Manning Research Inc 200450 Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 10000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 4
Osborne & Walsh Mini Slipstream Drive (5)    Power 180    Fuel Use 198.41%    Signature 180    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 2,450,000 Litres    Range 22.2 billion km   (57 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This is another design I am quite pleased with, even though I would really like the Vanguard to move with the rest of the fleet, the size of such a jump drive would take over the amount of space gained by adding 2000 tons. The next generation of designs will be very different I think.


Now, onto secondary ships (that I have designed) of which there is only one currently. The Leander class Exploration Carrier is at the forefront of the Emperium's known space. Designed to go several years without needing to return to civilized space it carries a lot of fuel as do it's fighter compliment. It's size also makes it fairly quick to build.
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Leander class Exploration Carrier    5,000 tons     100 Crew     453.9 BP      TCS 100  TH 150  EM 0
1500 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 1-26     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 0
Maint Life 3.5 Years     MSP 170    AFR 66%    IFR 0.9%    1YR 21    5YR 319    Max Repair 55 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months    Flight Crew Berths 1   
Hangar Deck Capacity 1625 tons     

Pratt & Holt J5000(3-50) Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 5000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Leonard Aero Engines Ion Drive (1)    Power 150    Fuel Use 10.61%    Signature 150    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 84.8 billion km   (654 days at full power)

Strike Group
2x Sheffield Survey Ship   Speed: 2250 km/s    Size: 8
2x River Survey Ship   Speed: 2250 km/s    Size: 8

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
I am actually very very happy with this design, as it can go with another Leander to make quick work of exploring any system. One fault I can level at it would maybe be not quite having a large enough hanger capacity as it can only carry either 4 geo fighters, 4 grav fighters, or some combination of those.

The fighter selection for the Emperium is slimmer than the advisors would like, but with a limited budget and concerns from the emperor about pushing technology too far too fast (fluff) they make do.

The Hood class fighter is the first experiment with an extended strike capability. While it carries two size 4 launchers, they take an extremely long time to reload by themselves, if to be reloaded at all during an engagement.
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Hood class Fighter    249 tons     1 Crew     43.44 BP      TCS 4.98  TH 18  EM 0
3614 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 2.64
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 49%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 3    5YR 50    Max Repair 13 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 3   
Magazine 8   

Fighter Slipsteam Drive (1)    Power 18    Fuel Use 218.25%    Signature 18    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 1.7 billion km   (5 days at full power)

Cunningham-Carey Fighter Launch System (Prototype) (2)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 800
Yates-Osullivan Fighter Missile Fire Control (1)     Range 30.7m km    Resolution 100
Rapier Missile (2)  Speed: 18,000 km/s   End: 26.8m    Range: 28.9m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 102/61/30

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
I don't have too many complains that I can think of, although the speed is lower than the fleets it gives the fleet the ability to keep the enemy at range.

The Robin class Fighter-Scout is what allows the strike group to extend it's range by giving the fleet a set of eyes beyond what the fleet can see. It also allows the fleet to "go dark" by turning off their sensors when they have a lock.
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Robin class Fighter-Scout    240 tons     2 Crew     66.6 BP      TCS 4.79  TH 18  EM 0
3757 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 47%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 15    5YR 223    Max Repair 52 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 2   

Fighter Slipsteam Drive (1)    Power 18    Fuel Use 218.25%    Signature 18    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 1.7 billion km   (5 days at full power)

Fitzgerald & Hartley Active Search Sensor MR41-R100 (1)     GPS 5200     Range 41.6m km    Resolution 100

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
This one I'm less happy with. I couldn't make the sensor larger without going over 250 tons, which I need to keep the fighters at a decent speed and to bring enough of them to bear to be a real threat. And it's smaller size means it doesn't get it's full use in speed out.

The River and Sheffield survey ships are actually survey fighters, and are equiped with a geo sensor and a grav sensor respectively.
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River class Survey Ship    400 tons     11 Crew     134.8 BP      TCS 8  TH 18  EM 0
2250 km/s     Armour 1-4     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/1     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 80%    IFR 1.1%    1YR 27    5YR 407    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 2   

Fighter Slipsteam Drive (1)    Power 18    Fuel Use 218.25%    Signature 18    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 10.3 billion km   (53 days at full power)

Geological Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

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Sheffield class Survey Ship    400 tons     11 Crew     132.8 BP      TCS 8  TH 18  EM 0
2250 km/s     Armour 1-4     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/1/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 80%    IFR 1.1%    1YR 31    5YR 470    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 2   

Fighter Slipsteam Drive (1)    Power 18    Fuel Use 218.25%    Signature 18    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 10.3 billion km   (53 days at full power)

Gravitational Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

I'm actually pretty pleased with these designs. Maybe I can add a bit more of deployment time to them but otherwise it's not bad for a first outing.

Last up, the missile designs for the Emperium. There are currently two schools of thought, one favoring agility to hit it's target, and another favoring long range barrages to overwhelm the target. Neither school influences the point defense of the Emperium as neither school can bring forth variants different enough from each other to stand apart.
The Saber series of missiles are the offensive arm for the Emperium. With the more agile, shorter ranged variants loaded into fighters and the longer ranged variants loaded on the actual ships themselves.

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(Saber) Rapier
Missile Size: 4 MSP  (0.2 HS)     Warhead: 4    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 17
Speed: 18000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 27 minutes   Range: 28.9m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.492
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 306%   3k km/s 102%   5k km/s 61.2%   10k km/s 30.6%
Materials Required:    1x Tritanium   1.492x Gallicite   Fuel x187.5

Development Cost for Project: 249RP

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(Saber) Flacion
Missile Size: 4 MSP  (0.2 HS)     Warhead: 4    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 15
Speed: 18000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 143 minutes   Range: 154.4m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.284
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 270%   3k km/s 90%   5k km/s 54%   10k km/s 27%
Materials Required:    1x Tritanium   1.284x Gallicite   Fuel x1000

Development Cost for Project: 228RP

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(Falcon) Peregrine
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 11
Speed: 25200 km/s    Engine Endurance: 2 minutes   Range: 3.8m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.5938
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 277.2%   3k km/s 88%   5k km/s 55.4%   10k km/s 27.7%
Materials Required:    0.25x Tritanium   0.3438x Gallicite   Fuel x12.5

Development Cost for Project: 59RP

I'm really not happy with the missile design for either the AMM or the ASM, as I can't seem to get much more to hit or speed out of either. The peregrines for example would have laughable to hits against my own ASMs, although the Rapier and Flacion would hit my own ships quite well, they will stuggle against anything going faster than 5km/s

I am open to thoughts and suggestions and as always, thank you for your time.
 

Offline ORCACommander

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Re: Solar Emperium's First Fleet
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2017, 09:45:16 PM »
you are classifying 10 Kton ships as battlecruisers and battleships...
These a really frigates and an escort carrier

Difference between a battlecruisers is that a BC is Guns while BB is Armor and guns, you kinda got that reversed

you defienetly need more launchers on your BB.

you can really trim down the deployment time

your jump tender will not be able to ferry the carrier

since these are frigates which will only be good en mass you should really go deep on the squadron size tech for large transits
 

Offline Gyrfalcon

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Re: Solar Emperium's First Fleet
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 01:21:17 AM »
One low tech civilization's battleship is a higher tech civ's light cruiser. :P

That said, I agree that the battleship doesn't really have enough throw weight, and what you'll see is that most enemies will be able to engage and destroy the battlegroup's salvos - there's very little chance of leakers.

For early game designs, I also agree that a deployment time of a year is already enough, and if you're only operating near Sol, you might be fine with 6-9 months.
 

Offline clement

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Re: Solar Emperium's First Fleet
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2017, 08:50:44 AM »
The Duke of York Battleship definitely needs more throw weight in order to be able to change the balance of a fight without needing to bring so many of them that you win by sheer tonnage. For offensive ships, number of missiles in a volley is important in order for missiles to make it through defenses and starting to wear down the target.
  • Drop the shields, with only 6 points of protection, your shield tech is not high enough to contribute enough to defense for the weight it takes up. That will stop 1, maybe 2 missiles and they will probably not recharge in time to help with the next salvo.
  • Your Missile Fire Control and Active Search Sensor have ranges of 256 million KM, nearly double the range of your missiles at 143 million KM. While I am a fan of overbuilding fire controls to brute force through ECM, that is a bit much I think. The resolution of both your fire control and search sensor is 100 which gives a target tonnage size of 5000 tons. I generally go for a resolution of 160 to 200 at the tech level you are at. This will reduce the size of your sensors and is more representative of ship sizes. At your current tech level, I would personally lower the missile range to ~100 million KM and then build my fire control and active search sensor to be around 120% of that.
  • I would personally remove the hangers from the battleship, unless it is an RP/flavor thing. You have a carrier, let it do that. The battleship throws missiles, maximize that trait. If you drop the hangers, then you can focus the magazines on only carrying one type of missile, which increases number of volleys you can throw.
  • After the above changes, I think you should regain 1500+ tons. With that tonnage I would add more launchers and magazines with the goal of maintaining a capability of between 10 to 12 volleys of missiles. I would use any left over space on either fuel or armor.
  • Another option to increase throw weight for your battleship is to use slightly miniaturized missile launchers. You could put 25% more launchers on the ship however your reload rate would go up significantly. I have used this option where I felt the longer time between volleys was adequately made up for by the better performance of the larger volleys.

The Iron Duke is a pretty good ship in my opinion. The only changes I would suggest would be inline with your concerns about the small number of volleys it can produce. For anti-missile defense ships, I prioritize staying power in the fight due to facing several dozen waves of missiles.
  • Drop the number of missile launchers on the Iron Duke from 30 down to either 20 or 25.
  • Drop the number of fire controls down to match the ratio of 5 launchers to 1 fire control.
  • Possibly drop the armor on the Iron Duke by 1 or 2, unless from an RP/style point of view you want your ships to have thick belts. 4 layers of armor will absorb two hits at the same point from a strength 4 missile before having any penetration.
  • Add magazine space to use the tonnage you gain from the above changes. I tend to look for around 20 full salvos for a defense ship like the Iron Duke.

For the Vanguard Carrier, I don't see any major flaws other than the size not meeting the standard fleet size for a front line ship. I shoot for a third of my carrier's capacity being used by hangars.  Until they get larger, this generally means they do not have much in the way of armor.
  • I would drop two points of armor off the carrier. This way it can survive strength 4 hits from missiles without  damage overflow. Since it does not have sensors, it will be low on the target list for attackers.
  • I would look at matching its size and engines to your other ships. At a ship size of 10,000 tons, the 3000 tons of hangar space is reasonable. Use the extra space for more missiles and fuel.
  • Don't forget to have Spare Berths for enough pilots to fly your fighters. There is a check box on the ship design screen, top right i think, that says "Save Excess Q" which allows you to have extra crew quarters beyond what the primary crew need.
  • Your magazines in the carrier do not have a missile type assigned.

I like the County class. I might drop the armor to two layers and add more fuel, but that is about it.

For the Leander and it's parasites (River and Sheffield survey fighters). I would probably look to increase the deployment time on the Leander as well as fuel reserves. Might drop the hanger to 1500 tons, and make the survey ships 500 ton fighters and just carry 3. Currently you end up not using 25 tons of space in the hangers.

For the fighters and missiles. Your engines may not be high enough tech, or you may not have a high enough multiplier for your missile engines. Your fighters should be faster than your fleet, otherwise the only time you can really use them is when your fleet is stationary, because if you fleet is maneuvering, they will not be able to recover fighters without slowing down.
  • Fighter missile launchers should be box launchers, for normal launchers to miniaturize them, they launch to slowly to be usable for fighters, plus there is no need since you don't carry extra missiles. With box launchers you can make the fighter smaller, or at the same size carry more engines mass or more box launchers to get a heavier throw weight for your fighter squadron.
  • More speed
  • More speed