Post reply

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Note: this post will not display until it's been approved by a moderator.

Name:
Email:
Subject:
Message icon:

shortcuts: hit alt+s to submit/post or alt+p to preview

Please read the rules before you post!


Topic Summary

Posted by: Brian Neumann
« on: March 23, 2013, 05:17:44 PM »

So can microwave weapons be used to quickly destroy fire control systems?

The Dreadnought has no shields and only 4 fire controls (2 missile, 2 laser).  A few hits would leave them unable to shoot anything!
Or does it not work like that?
That is exactly what would happen.  The disadvantage of microwaves are that they are a beam weapon, and even for a beam weapon they are short range.  They also do not scale up thier damage with larger size emiters.  Against the Dreadnought this translates to being useless untill you are at point blank range.  The Dreadnought will have fired all of its missiles long before the microwaves can be used, and microwave weapons do not work against missile the last time I checked, so you can't even use them for point defense.  As long as the Dreadnought does not get to close those lasers will be doing a lot of damage to your ships. 

To make microwaves work I usually find that one of two things needs to be happening.  The first is a jump point combat.  These tend to be short ranged, and if you are on the offense then the defenders don't tend to have shields up when you first jump in. That is a perfect target for microwave weapons.  The second time is in Nebula's as here everything tends to be incredibly short ranged and shields do not work (or missiles).  Microwaves are almost the perfect weapon to disable a target in those conditions as ship armor does tend to be thick (to allow fast movement)  and the number of hits needed is relativly low.  Mesons are the second weapon for nebula's for pretty much the same reason.  They ignore the passive defenses and almost any nebula will cut the fire control range to the point that any beam weapon will max out the fire control capability.  (Nebula's divide the fire control range by the strength of a nebula but do not have any effect on the weapon damage.  A strength 3 nebula gives 1/3 the effective fire control range)

Brian
Posted by: Wintrow
« on: March 23, 2013, 06:57:09 AM »

So can microwave weapons be used to quickly destroy fire control systems?

The Dreadnought has no shields and only 4 fire controls (2 missile, 2 laser).  A few hits would leave them unable to shoot anything!
Or does it not work like that?
Posted by: Bremen
« on: February 07, 2013, 02:12:17 PM »

The microwave exists for shields already. Some manner of anti-material weapon more specialized than the others... limited von nueman delivery packets perhaps? Heh.
But yes, a full discussion on the manner might be prudent.

Actually, if anything microwaves are weak against shields. They do triple damage to them, but they skip armor entirely. They're basically just meson weapons that only hit electronics and are stopped by shields (albeit doing three damage instead of one). I think we can all agree that if Mesons did three damage to shields instead of skipping them then that would be an advantage for the shields rather than the mesons.
Posted by: Conscript Gary
« on: February 07, 2013, 01:24:25 PM »

The microwave exists for shields already. Some manner of anti-material weapon more specialized than the others... limited von nueman delivery packets perhaps? Heh.
But yes, a full discussion on the manner might be prudent.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: February 07, 2013, 01:04:21 PM »

Mesons penetrate shields too, though. If they count as the anti-armor weapon, they also count as the anti-shield weapon :P

I'd say mesons are anti-defense weapons.

Anti-armor weapons should perform weak against shields.
Anti-shield weapons should perform weak against armor.
Posted by: Bremen
« on: February 07, 2013, 12:11:58 PM »

We already have a weapon that is good vs armor: mesons

I would think it wouldn't adversely affect gameplay to have a laser option be calibrated for shield frequencies at the design stage. It would add a unique dynamic if missiles could house internal shield generators to defend against AMM. That would really complicate the defense against them and bring a shield laser into common use, unlike the high radiation missiles which are not used

Mesons penetrate shields too, though. If they count as the anti-armor weapon, they also count as the anti-shield weapon :P
Posted by: Charlie Beeler
« on: February 07, 2013, 12:10:20 PM »

I have quite a few EW changes in mind including jamming specific sensors/fire controls, area jamming, decoys, etc.. I just haven't got around to them yet. I probably wouldn't go for the Wrath of Khan style lowering of shields though.

Regards,
Steve

Would you be willing to open a discussion in Suggestions on the topic?  Personally, I'd consider an overhaul of tactical intelligence to hand-in-hand with an EW overhaul. 
Posted by: MagusXIX
« on: February 07, 2013, 07:36:30 AM »

I have quite a few EW changes in mind including jamming specific sensors/fire controls, area jamming, decoys, etc.. I just haven't got around to them yet. I probably wouldn't go for the Wrath of Khan style lowering of shields though.

Regards,
Steve

What about a speed-reduction effect?  A combat capable tractor beam, perhaps?
Posted by: xeryon
« on: February 07, 2013, 07:33:02 AM »

We already have a weapon that is good vs armor: mesons

I would think it wouldn't adversely affect gameplay to have a laser option be calibrated for shield frequencies at the design stage. It would add a unique dynamic if missiles could house internal shield generators to defend against AMM. That would really complicate the defense against them and bring a shield laser into common use, unlike the high radiation missiles which are not used
Posted by: Icecoon
« on: February 07, 2013, 02:59:53 AM »

I agree. Laser-warheads, shield disruptor beams, tribble cannons. Whatever they end up being called, they should be always awesome vs shields, and always craptacular against armor.

I'd actually prefer to see this as a beam range weapon rather than a missile warhead type.

That would be perfect. And maybe there should be a feat added to normal weapons, that will allow them to target specific subsystems, i.e. engines, reactors, etc. These subsystems would be revealed to the player when the enemy ship is in sensors range. But if the enemy has active shields, these shields would prevent the sensors to penetrate and scan the ships subsystems behind them. That would make shields more useful.
Posted by: Mel Vixen
« on: February 06, 2013, 11:21:36 PM »

Possibly as an adjunct to this, a weapon that does more damage to shields with minimal damage to armor/systems.

Like microwaves? Thought that would be a nice effect on radioactivity enhanced Missiles. I would suggest that the Higher echelons of Microwaves (/masers) get a higher shield and electronics damage.
Posted by: Bremen
« on: February 06, 2013, 05:38:52 PM »

As long as we get a weapon that's great vs armor and bad vs shields, I'd be okay with that. I think having a reason to use both would be great, but currently I think armor tends to be better than shields in almost all cases.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: February 06, 2013, 04:49:14 PM »

A modulated laser perhaps. Something akin to the laser head missile in being an alternate design option when you design the laser. It would need to be permanent though. It would be far too easy to use if it could be selectively used.

I agree. Laser-warheads, shield disruptor beams, tribble cannons. Whatever they end up being called, they should be always awesome vs shields, and always craptacular against armor.

I'd actually prefer to see this as a beam range weapon rather than a missile warhead type.
Posted by: xeryon
« on: February 06, 2013, 04:44:50 PM »

A modulated laser perhaps. Something akin to the laser head missile in being an alternate design option when you design the laser. It would need to be permanent though. It would be far too easy to use if it could be selectively used.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: February 06, 2013, 04:30:20 PM »

I have quite a few EW changes in mind including jamming specific sensors/fire controls, area jamming, decoys, etc.. I just haven't got around to them yet. I probably wouldn't go for the Wrath of Khan style lowering of shields though.

Regards,
Steve

Possibly as an adjunct to this, a weapon that does more damage to shields with minimal damage to armor/systems.