Jump Point Connections question

[Elvin (OP)]

In this game, I wanted the galaxy to have far more inter-connections than standard ( i.e. close to 0 - my 65 system galaxy had one interconnection present ). So I set the default local chance to be 75%, and the local spread to be 10. I started, and went out exploring. I found a jump connection between the very first two systems I discovered, so I thought this was going to be exactly what I wanted.

30 systems later, and I have found no more interconnections at all. Just this one solitary connection between two systems one jump from Sol. Turning on the System ID numbers in Galaxy view, I can see I have most of the systems numbered 1-15, and then a dozen random large numbered planets. Even after finding the Number 3 system, which had 8 jump points in it, I had 0 connections to systems I already knew. And this repeated in a similar incident with the number 8 system, which had 6 JP's.

So is this a case of me being spectacularly unlucky, or is this a misunderstanding on my part of how the Jump Network maps out? If a system has no more unexplored jump points, is it possible for a new one to appear? ( I noticed a "suspected dormant jump point" box somewhere, what is this for?) If I want a very interconnected system, do I set the local generation chance to 95%, and the spread to 5 or something?

Thanks for any pointers on the subject,

Elvin

[sloanjh]

If a system has no more unexplored jump points, is it possible for a new one to appear?

Yes, if a system rolls to connect back to a system with no jump point "slots" left, then it opens a "dormant" jump point.  A dormant jump point is one that can't be detected until a ship jumps through it from the other end, at which point it turns into a "normal" jump point, which can be found by resurveying the system.

( I noticed a "suspected dormant jump point" box somewhere, what is this for?)

This is a left-over from Starfire Assistant.  In Starfire such a jump point is "closed" IIRC, which means you can't find it by survey - only by transitting it from the other side or by seeing someone who knows it's there making a transit.  If you read the Rigellian Diary, you'll see several cases where NPR were attacking through such a closed WP.  The checkbox allows the player to mark such a system as a memory aid.

If I want a very interconnected system, do I set the local generation chance to 95%, and the spread to 5 or something?

I think I use 80% and 20, and don't see a lot more loops than you do.  Think of it this way - if it's set to 100% and 10, then you've still only got a 1 in 20 chance of hitting a particular system in the range band (+/- 10).  Similarly, with a 75% "locality" chance, you've only got roughly a 50% chance of a system 2-jumps away being in the same range band.   I'm too tired to work out the probabilities, but I think you're just suffering from a combination of bad luck and too loose of criteria.  So yeah, try cranking it up to 95%/5 and see what happens.

John

[The Shadow]

My current game (soon to be retired for 5.10!) uses 95% and a spread of 10, and I've been finding the interconnections a bit wearisome - the galactic map has lines crisscrossing it all over the place, as there's no way to arrange the stars to untangle them.

I've actually been considering backing it off a bit for my next game, especially since the NPR's are likely to be much further away in the new version.

[Brian Neumann]

In aurora a dormant jump point is closed and undetectable.  When someone transits into the system after all of the open jump points have been explored they activate the "dormant" jump point.  Once it is activated it can be detected with a new survey of the system.  

In mechanical terms what happens is when you explore a jump point the computer pulls up a system number semi-randomly.  If that system already has been explored it then checks for any open jump points that have not been explored.  If all the jump points in system already lead to other systems it creates a new jump point and adds it to the system.  If there are any jump points that have not been explored it uses an existing jump point to enter the system.

As a recap the difference between Starfire and Aurora is that in Starfire there were warp points that were undetectable exept when a ship transited them from the other side.  In Aurora all jump points are detectable, and because of the game mechanics there needed to be some fluff about why you couldn't detect the jump point when you surveyed the system.

Brian

[Steve Walmsley]

I've actually been considering backing it off a bit for my next game, especially since the NPR's are likely to be much further away in the new version.

Famous Last Words

Steve

[The Shadow]

I've actually been considering backing it off a bit for my next game, especially since the NPR's are likely to be much further away in the new version.

Famous Last Words

[Elvin (OP)]

Humm...Something is almost certainly bugged with this feature. Despite starting a new game in 5.13, with the settings of 95% local chance and a spread of 6, I'm getting galaxies that seem to be being generated by the default settings, despite still showing the 95% and 6 spread in the Game Info box. Any ideas what might be causing it, as I don't think the probability of the result I'm getting is greater than .1%

[The Shadow]

Could you clarify?   How many systems have you explored?  Could you post a screenshot of your galactic map?

By the way, there's an option on the galactic map to see the system numbers - that will tell you for sure if anything's out of bounds.

[Elvin (OP)]

Could you clarify?   How many systems have you explored?  Could you post a screenshot of your galactic map?

By the way, there's an option on the galactic map to see the system numbers - that will tell you for sure if anything's out of bounds.

That's precisely what i've got on at the moment, and the numbers just don't make sense with the parameters I gave them.

Here's the picture:

[sloanjh]

That's precisely what i've got on at the moment, and the numbers just don't make sense with the parameters I gave them.

You said 95% and spread of 6.  What's your max system number?  Something like 250?

If you really want to do an easily falsifiable experiment, you should use 100% and something like 6.  That way you'll know that all links must be within the spread.

John

[Elvin (OP)]

Oh. I hadn't thought of changing the maximum system number, so it's still at the default 1,000.

If/when I start a new game, i'll try 100% chance of local and see how it goes.

[The Shadow]

Wow.  That does indeed look like the numbers aren't working.  All I can say is, it works for me.

[Father Tim]

Actually, it looks like the system is working, but for some reason is using the wrong 'start from here' number - perhaps  a variable isn't being properly set and/or cleared when the program loops through the 'get new system number' subroutine.

It's as if instead of a 95% chance of +or- 6 from the system you're exploring out from, it's a 95% chance of +or- 6 from the last system you explored to.

[Steve Walmsley]

Humm...Something is almost certainly bugged with this feature. Despite starting a new game in 5.13, with the settings of 95% local chance and a spread of 6, I'm getting galaxies that seem to be being generated by the default settings, despite still showing the 95% and 6 spread in the Game Info box. Any ideas what might be causing it, as I don't think the probability of the result I'm getting is greater than .1%

If this is a real stars game, then the local chance and local spread don't apply. Those are only used for random games. In a real stars game, systems are linked based on their proximity in real space, which is based on their celestial coordinates in reality.

Steve

[ndkid]

If this is a real stars game, then the local chance and local spread don't apply. Those are only used for random games. In a real stars game, systems are linked based on their proximity in real space, which is based on their celestial coordinates in reality.

Steve

Steve, could you make a change to the new game setup that disables the local chance and local spread if you choose real stars? I never realized what you just said was the case, and never would've guessed it, either, and having a graphical representation may helps those who come after me.