Shipyards: Slips or Tonnage first?

[Bandus (OP)]

I am curious if one way versus another is better for any reason when dealing with shipyards. Specifically, should one add slips and then expand the tonnage capacity of a shipyard? Or expand tonnage capacity and then add slips? Does it matter resource or time wise in the end?

[MarcAFK]

The way I see it is this, Adding slipways takes years, whereas adding capacity is more efficient on continuous, so I'll add capacity if i can spare a shipyard for a time.... also It helps if you queue up some ships to build before adding the slipway if you want to be extra efficient.
However if you really need larger ships in production then by all means prioritise expansion.

[Paul M]

I always add capacity until I reach what I want then I add slips.  Each change costs more the more slips you have so it is more efficient to do the capacity first is my view.

I also use the smallest increment for the first changes then switch over to a larger increment later.  So to go from 1000 tons to 12000 tons I would first bring it up to 6000 tons, 1000 tons at at time, then switch over to 2000 ton increases, just to save a bit of fiddle faddle.  But each step builds at the rate determined by the shipyards size when the order is given is the important thing to know.  So building in 10 1000 ton steps will go faster than one building order of 10,000.

You can also click on continous upgrade but I'm a fan of knowing what is going on.

[Brian Neumann]

I go with upgrading the tonnage first, then adding slips once I reach a target tonnage.  The main reason for this is the time to upgrade 50 tons capacity (1 hull size) is multiplied by the number of slips you already have.  The time to add a slip however is just based on the tonnage that can be built.  It takes the same time to add 1 slip to a 3 slip shipyard compared to a 10 slip shipyard.  It would take 3 1/3 times as long to add that 50 tons capacity to a shipyard that has 10 slips on it as compared to one with 3 slips. 

This is not cast in stone, but once I pick a general size for a ship class I tend to stay fairly close to that size.  If I later decide a need a few more tons capacity, that is not to hard to upgrade to.  A major upgrade of size is generally not needed.  I also tend to cap any one shipyard at the point of having 3, 5, or 10 slips.  3 for quick to make ships that I won't want tons of, these are generally specialist type ships.  5 slips for most ship types, and 10 slips for ships I will make a lot of, this includes freighters, light combat/patrol ships, surveyors, ect.


Brian

[Wolfius]

I typically expand first and then add slips simply because it lets me start production earlier. You can build fewer ships at a time if you lack slips, but you can't build anything if your shipyard is too small for the ships you want.

[Serpentine]

I have a related question as I am expanding my main civilian shipyard at the moment. 

What is a good size for a civilian shipyard to go up to in the early game?

I am considering building approx.  35,000 ton freighters to move installations in one move (25,000 ton cargo hold) to augment my smaller freighter fleet.
Or am I better off adding slips and pumping out multiple smaller freighters.

Thanks for any advice for a newbie 

[Erik L]

I have a related question as I am expanding my main civilian shipyard at the moment. 

What is a good size for a civilian shipyard to go up to in the early game?

I am considering building approx.  35,000 ton freighters to move installations in one move (25,000 ton cargo hold) to augment my smaller freighter fleet.
Or am I better off adding slips and pumping out multiple smaller freighters.

Thanks for any advice for a newbie 

More ships = more berths for captains.
More ships = more fuel used (possibly).
More ships = more trips to run.
More ships = more wear on components (Okay, that doesn't apply to "civilian" designs, but is worth a note).

[Serpentine]

More ships = more berths for captains.
More ships = more fuel used (possibly).
More ships = more trips to run.
More ships = more wear on components (Okay, that doesn't apply to "civilian" designs, but is worth a note).

Wow, that was quick 

Good points, currently I am running squadrons of 5 smaller freighters capable of moving installations in one trip together.

My 35,000 ton freighter design is probably more efficient (fuel, resource use to build, etc).
The idea of flexibility from having multiple smaller freighters is negated by the issue they are needed together in squadrons to move a whole installation in one lift.
Fuel is not really a concern for me at the moment (haven't even left the solar system and there is plentiful sorium)
As for more management of multiple ships it is not too onerous as the smaller freighters are operated together as a squadron.
However my smaller freighters are giving me a useful outlet for Lieutenant Commanders who need their first command. 

Thanks for covering some of the issues, I think I may go up to 35,000 tons on one of my civilian shipyards early in the game (and just keep adding slips at another), just not really sure if there are many other needs early on for large shipyards over more slips per shipyard.

[Erik L]

If I recall, your colony ships will be larger than the freighters. Even if you take a freighter, rip out the holds and put in the cryo units, it'll be larger. So there is a good reason for a larger civ yard.

[joeclark77]

If I recall, your colony ships will be larger than the freighters. Even if you take a freighter, rip out the holds and put in the cryo units, it'll be larger. So there is a good reason for a larger civ yard.

The reason is the added crew requirements for cryo storage compared to cargo holds.

[Paul M]

My baseline freighter/transport is 30K tonnes.  The transport has cryogenics for 20,000 people plus 1 cargo hold and is jump capable.  The freigher has 5 cargo holds and is non-jump capable.

So far they have done a good job.  I have a plan for a smaller freighter that has a single cargo hold and is self jump capable since I find a small freighter is useful for things like picking up resources.

So a yard capable of 30-35K tons is a good size.  My standard harvesters are also 30K tonnes, as is my as yet unbuilt brigade transporter.  It is a size that can be used as the basis for a number of different ships.

My eventual planning is for civillian yards of 15K tonnes, 30K tonnes and 45K tonnes (the last two exist I just need to build the smaller one).

15K --tankers, small independent freighters, other support ships
30K --small transports, harvesters, troop transporters
45K --heavy lift, terraformers, salvagers
By numbers of ships my civillian fleet is signficantly larger than my military force.

[MarcAFK]

I tend to base my commercial ships somewhere around the size of a standard freighter with 5 holds, once the yard is big enough for a 5 hold freighter I'll retool it for that and start construction, then increase size while I'm making freighters, when I have enough I'll retool for colony ships or terraformers/miners/trooptransport/tanker/etc/whatever I need at whatever size the yard is, then going back to expansion. Eventually when the yard gets big enough that I can fit a new freighter with 1 more full cargo hold then I'll retool for that.
So my commercials tend to be fairly random sizes untill I start worrying about jump engines, then I may start limiting or standardising my ships. I would generally then design a jump engine big enough to install in my standard freighter and maintain the same speed. Then I would only build a few of those ships and station them around jump points as mobile jump gates, but for the most part keep using the same old freighters I have.
I would use the full size jump capable freighters for moving stuff to newer colonies which are getting less infrastructure  delivered.

[Hawkeye]

Something to keep in mind:

If you design a standard freighter with 5 cargo holds, copy the design, rip out the cargo holds and replace them with 10 cryo modules (plus some crew quarters) you can tool a shipyard to the colony ship and build frighters in the same yard without re-tooling - but not the other way around!

My freighters, colony ships and troop transports are usually all around 40k tons, so that is the size I aim for early game (one yard with 5 slipways for freighter/colony ships and one yard with 3 slipsways for the TT)

Then a third yard around 20 and 30k tons for tugs, salvagers and similar stuff with 2 or 3 slipways.

Finally I put another yard on continous expansion and use it to build gate-builders once the yard reaches 70k-ish and later on for for huge terraforming ships.

[Jorgen_CAB]

One thing that has not been mentioned in the thread is that retooling of a shipyard takes more time the more slips you have. This is my main concern when I decide how many slips each yard gets. A yard that will produce many different ship types generally only get 2-3 slipways while yards that are dedicated to particular ship types get more slipways.

I generally build my yard up to a good size for the type of ships I intend to use it for and then add the number of slipways I deem appropriate.

For civilian ships that is...

10-15.000t for smaller civilian support ships such as tankers, mineral haulers etc..
30-40.000t for freighters, colony ships and troop transports
60-70.000t for larger utility ships such as salvages, gate builders etc..
100.000t+ for large bases such as Harvesters, Mining platforms, Maintenance bases, Terraformers etc..

For military ships that is...

1-3.000t for system defense crafts.
5-7.000t for long range reconnaissance/scout vessels and anti-small craft defense frigates.
9-12.000t for destroyer type ships.
15-20.000t for fleet escort vessels such as smaller cruisers and support ships.
30.000t+ for capital ships built for war only.

I might build several yards in each category above and the number of slipways will depend on the frequency of retooling I will have to perform to support construction and upgrading of my entire fleets. So the total number of yards and slipways vary depending on needs and long term strategies.

[Erik L]

I usually limit slips to 5 per yard. That lets me build a nice number of ships at once. Or refit a couple, build a couple.