My First attempt at ship design

[DizzyFoxkit (OP)]

So this is my first attempt to create a fleet, as I haven't quite been able to wrap my head around ship design yet.  So I figured I'd post what I have here to get some feedback on how to make it better.  They will be displayed from Smallest -> Largest

Code: [Select]

Clemenceau class Science Vessel    1,550 tons     148 Crew     487 BP      TCS 31  TH 60  EM 0
1935 km/s     Armour 1-11     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/2/2     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maint Life 4.75 Years     MSP 196    AFR 19%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 14    5YR 214    Max Repair 100 MSP

Ion Engine E10 (1)    Power 60    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 58.1 billion km   (347 days at full power)

Gravitational Survey Sensors (2)   2 Survey Points Per Hour
Geological Survey Sensors (2)   2 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Code: [Select]

Dunkerque class Cruiser    3,100 tons     338 Crew     372.2 BP      TCS 62  TH 180  EM 60
2903 km/s     Armour 1-18     Shields 2-450     Sensors 12/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 16.6
Maint Life 3.09 Years     MSP 75    AFR 76%    IFR 1.1%    1YR 12    5YR 177    Max Repair 30 MSP

Ion Engine E10 (3)    Power 60    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 29.0 billion km   (115 days at full power)
Beta R450/15 Shields (1)   Total Fuel Cost  15 Litres per day

15cm C1 Near Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 128,000km     TS: 2903 km/s     Power 6-1     RM 3    ROF 30        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Single 10cm C1 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (3x1)    Range 90,000km     TS: 8000 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 3    ROF 15        3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 0
Fire Control S02 8-8000 (3)    Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 64-2000 (1)    Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 2000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (4)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

ASS MR1-R1 (1)     GPS 17     Range 1,000k km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR5-R60 (1)     GPS 720     Range 5.6m km    Resolution 60
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]

Richelieu class Carrier    8,350 tons     472 Crew     873.6 BP      TCS 167  TH 300  EM 120
1796 km/s     Armour 5-36     Shields 4-450     Sensors 12/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 19.8
Maint Life 1.56 Years     MSP 131    AFR 278%    IFR 3.9%    1YR 62    5YR 927    Max Repair 30 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 3000 tons     

Ion Engine E10 (5)    Power 60    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 21.6 billion km   (138 days at full power)
Beta R450/15 Shields (3)   Total Fuel Cost  45 Litres per day

Single 15cm C0.25 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (6x1)    Range 128,000km     TS: 2000 km/s     Power 6-0     RM 3    ROF 5        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S04 64-2000 (3)    Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 2000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (2)     Total Power Output 9    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Code: [Select]

Suffren class Cruiser    6,050 tons     593 Crew     655.4 BP      TCS 121  TH 480  EM 180
3966 km/s     Armour 1-29     Shields 6-450     Sensors 12/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 33.12
Maint Life 14.3 Years     MSP 2203    AFR 97%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 20    5YR 302    Max Repair 30 MSP

Ion Engine E10 (8)    Power 60    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres    Range 89.2 billion km   (260 days at full power)
Beta R450/15 Shields (4)   Total Fuel Cost  60 Litres per day

Twin 10cm C1 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (4x2)    Range 16,000km     TS: 8000 km/s     Power 6-2     RM 3    ROF 15        3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S02 8-8000 (4)    Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (2)     Total Power Output 9    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

The only flaws that I can see myself are as follows,
1.  I flopped Richelieu and Suffren classes somehow.  Richelieu is supposed to be a battleship while Suffren is supposed to be the Carrier.
2.  I'm not sure if the Carrier needs power, as the power required is said to be at 0. . .

[Erik L]

Re: Clemenceau
I prefer to split the grav and geo survey functions into separate ships. This however is personal preference.

Re: Dunkerque
If the 10cm turrets are meant for PD work, they fire way too slow. PD weapons should have a RoF of 5 seconds. The armor is also paper thin.

Re: Richelieu
It's classed as a carrier, but there are no fighters loaded. Also, I'd drop the turrets (and power/fire con) for more hangar or more engine. Armor could be dropped a bit also.

Re: Suffren
Paper thin armor for a main battle line ship.

On all of the ships with shields, you have very limited shielding. I'd either increase the shields or drop them entirely at this tech level. The armor on all of them is woefully thin. The armor on all of them, except the Richelieu won't stop a single missile. Combat range is very very short. 128k km is point blank range. I'd also consider standardizing the speeds on the combat ships. I'd also build a missile ship class. A missile opponent will most likely pound these ships to wreckage in return for no losses on their own.

You also did not post the fighter design that should be on the carrier. Show us that too

[DizzyFoxkit (OP)]

Sorry about the no fighters loaded/shown, I hadn't designed them yet.    What I seem to be picking up is that until shields can take more of a beating I should drop them and go with armor?

Code: [Select]

Clemenceau class Fighter    460 tons     15 Crew     47.4 BP      TCS 9.2  TH 36  EM 60
3913 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 2-450     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 3.2 Years     MSP 6    AFR 16%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 1    5YR 13    Max Repair 10 MSP

FTR Ion Engine E1000 (1)    Power 36    Fuel Use 10000%    Signature 36    Armour 0    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 2.0 billion km   (5 days at full power)
Beta R450/15 Shields (1)   Total Fuel Cost  15 Litres per day

10cm C1 Near Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 16,000km     TS: 3913 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 3    ROF 15        3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S02 8-8000 (1)    Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
Also, I'm assuming that PD stands for Planetary Defense?

The speed is unstandardized because of the mixup between Richelieu and Suffren classes. 

[Atlantia]

PD is point defence, actually.

Your ships have inconsistent maintenance lives. I believe the average for most players for military ships is 5-10 years maintenance life, so you can adjust accordingly if you like.

Also, until you get jump gates up and running, your science vessels will be useless when they finish surveying Sol. It might be better to have jump-capable survey ships, and it'll go faster if you have one dedicated to geo survey and another to grav.

Also, I make the maintenance life of each survey vessel at least 15 years, because I spend a lot of time exploring systems, then coming back for a quick resupply and refuel. But that's just me.

But yeah, I agree with Erik about armour and shields. I get up into magnetic confinement engines and still use armour-only ships because I don't want to sink in the time for shield research when better armour can absorb damage.

[Erik L]

Sorry about the no fighters loaded/shown, I hadn't designed them yet.    What I seem to be picking up is that until shields can take more of a beating I should drop them and go with armor?

Code: [Select]

Clemenceau class Fighter    460 tons     15 Crew     47.4 BP      TCS 9.2  TH 36  EM 60
3913 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 2-450     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 3.2 Years     MSP 6    AFR 16%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 1    5YR 13    Max Repair 10 MSP

FTR Ion Engine E1000 (1)    Power 36    Fuel Use 10000%    Signature 36    Armour 0    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 2.0 billion km   (5 days at full power)
Beta R450/15 Shields (1)   Total Fuel Cost  15 Litres per day

10cm C1 Near Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 16,000km     TS: 3913 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 3    ROF 15        3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S02 8-8000 (1)    Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
Also, I'm assuming that PD stands for Planetary Defense?

The speed is unstandardized because of the mixup between Richelieu and Suffren classes.  

Your fighters are way too slow. If you can, aim for 5000km/s minimum. Your fighters will also never fire, as there is no power plant.

PD = Point Defense.

Two points of shields will stop 2 points of damage, then be useless for the next 7 and a half minutes (in your case). The armor stops (on your fighter) 1 point in 5 different locations. Shields should be heavier (more of them installed) for better effectiveness. On a fighter, especially at this level, I'd call them useless.

For your design doctrine, you should determine your naval doctrine. Do your carriers move in with the CA/BB/BC? Do they launch fighters and sit in the back? What about anti-fighter defenses? Anti-missile defenses? Your fleet as given has no anti-missile defenses. A dedicated class with nothing but PD class weapons would be a good addition.

Just bear in mind, there is no right or wrong way to Aurora. Everything you get off these boards will be opinion

[Erik L]

From the looks of things, these designs are the first iteration of your ships. You have not conducted any research as of yet, correct?

For Turn 0 (prior to actually clicking any time buttons), I try to avoid fighters. The requisite tech is not always available, andmost weapons will be too bulky for a decent fighter design. A better choice would be a FAC (500-1000 tons). The only difference between a FAC and a "real" ship is a FAC uses 1 GB engine.

I rarely use shields until I research the time down to under 300 seconds minimum. A lot of times, not even then.

Ships are a delicate balance of offense, defense and speed. Too much of any one means the other two get gimped. A lot of times though you can design an offensive version and defensive version of the same ship. The offensive one has weapons meant to reach out and touch the enemy (missiles, beams, etc). A defensive ship has weapons designed to stop enemy weapons (missiles) from hitting your fleet.

Just remember, everyones first ships are going to suck. And every design is perfect right up until the first battle.

[DizzyFoxkit (OP)]

Thanks for the advice, I got most of the advice tuned in, except for the fighter as you hit my turn 0 state on the head.  If you want I can post the current fixed(somewhat) designs.

[dgibso29]

And every design is perfect right up until the first battle.

Truth. I designed a fleet support vessel/jump ship that was meant to stay with the fleet during battle. It had plenty of fuel and Maint. supplies, performed exactly as I had intended. I get in to my first battle with a Precursor AMM station and get a little too close without knowing it... A about 30 minutes later, 64 size 1 missiles were kind enough to point out that I forgot to put armour on my FSV...which was also my ticket home. Whoooops.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

The Dunkerque attempts too fit too much onto too small a frame, so you're left with lots of tonnage in sensors and fire control but weak firepower and practically no defences.

For a light (non-FAC) beam ship I would go 4000 tons minimum and only go with one type of beam weapon. Meaning, either use all turreted beams or all hull mounted beams. This specialization will save you a lot of tonnage on firecontrols.  Also, for a practical beam ship you really need a minimum of 3000 km/s fire control speed.  (Base tech, not after multipliers.) You also need much better capacitor tech (Found under Power & Propulsion) rather than the beam minaturization tech.  Beam duels are fierce and recharge speed hugely important.

You should take the passive sensors off the vast majority of your ships.   Only the strongest passive sensor in your fleet matters and they eat up a lot of tonnage that could be used elsewhere.

Feel free to give yourself techs with SM mode, its more important to have ships that work than to be 'honest'. hehe.