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Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 11, 2018, 11:42:16 AM »

Steve, apparently I again missed a post...anyway that change in the C# version is great...many existing and retired NCC colonial govenors thank you from the bottom of their hearts!  The mass graves of Venus will never happen again!

I didn't think passenger liners actually moved people...in so far as they drop off and pick up passengers...so the net transfer is 0.

the +1 CMC rating is automatic when you make the expand the CMC check...though maybe it follows the same sort of logic?   Steve, comments?   I can't say as I only have CMCs in Sol and they grow regularily.

Yes, CMC increases just picks an existing site.

I need to change the original creation process to only look at systems with available sites, although I will still have some preference for larger population systems.
Posted by: Paul M
« on: October 11, 2018, 10:57:40 AM »

Steve, apparently I again missed a post...anyway that change in the C# version is great...many existing and retired NCC colonial govenors thank you from the bottom of their hearts!  The mass graves of Venus will never happen again!

I didn't think passenger liners actually moved people...in so far as they drop off and pick up passengers...so the net transfer is 0.

the +1 CMC rating is automatic when you make the expand the CMC check...though maybe it follows the same sort of logic?   Steve, comments?   I can't say as I only have CMCs in Sol and they grow regularily.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 10, 2018, 05:36:40 PM »

I just realized, after re-reading that game change for C# about passenger liners, but we can no longer use civilian shipping lines to move colonists from Earth to Luna and Mars. Which is a bummer, since I'm so used to not having to build colony ships at all.

You can use shipping lines to move colonists from Earth to Mars. The only restriction is that passenger liners will not carry out same-system trips.
Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: October 10, 2018, 05:32:34 PM »

I just realized, after re-reading that game change for C# about passenger liners, but we can no longer use civilian shipping lines to move colonists from Earth to Luna and Mars. Which is a bummer, since I'm so used to not having to build colony ships at all.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 10, 2018, 05:12:13 PM »

my understanding is:
                  it is a check against my income with a random roll of 1-1,000,000 for a new CMC.
                  it is a check against my income with a random roll of 1-4,000,000 for an expansion to an existing CMC.

Yes, that's correct.
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: October 10, 2018, 04:12:58 PM »

I had not realized once the check succeeds that the process stopped even if no site was in the system.

I hadn't realized that either.  I thought it was always +1 automine on a successful economy check.
Posted by: Paul M
« on: October 10, 2018, 03:52:23 PM »

my understanding is:
                  it is a check against my income with a random roll of 1-1,000,000 for a new CMC.
                  it is a check against my income with a random roll of 1-4,000,000 for an expansion to an existing CMC.


So the expansion, which happens fairly often is less likely.   But I think that the CMC showing up is around 1% since the chance the check is made in Gl493.1 is well low as it has to fail in every other system as most of them have no sites to be selected...and this explains why I have only seen them in Sol.   I need to get the systems with sites to have higher populations or so I think at the moment.  I had not realized once the check succeeds that the process stopped even if no site was in the system.
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: October 10, 2018, 03:47:25 PM »

If the first roll suceeds and there is interest in stating a CMC somewhere why not keep looking until a site is found?  Then the fact that their are older and more developed and exhausted systems or systems without a site for a CMC dosen't block the process completely.  As when a site showed up in Sol after I explored the oort cloud it was within a few months equiped with a CMC.

I'm pretty sure the chance is to start a new CMC or add a mine to an existing CMC.  So every five days there is a 15% chance to add a civilian automine somewhere in your empire.  I you're only looking for a new CMC to pop up, that's much less than a 1% chance.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 10, 2018, 03:15:55 PM »

I kinda figured it might be that sorta thing Steve.   

Another thing I am seeing that maybe you can fix for the future is the "civilian line colonist dump"...possibly since I am playing an older version of the game you have fixed this but from observation it seems that whenever a colony has spare capacity every last single colony ship from every line runs to it and dumps their population on the poor hapless worlds unsuspecting infrastructure...causing massive negative growth.

Even when there are several shipping lines they all seem to target the same colony at the same time even when multiple possible target colonies exist.  I'd suggest revisiting this code and seeing if you could at least spread the various shipping lines out, maybe calculating the shipping lines capacity and comparing it to the space available at the colony or something.  There is an infinite number of solutions...but some are likely a bit more computationally intense than others.

This is the change you are looking for :)

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg106715#msg106715
Posted by: Paul M
« on: October 10, 2018, 03:06:03 PM »

I kinda figured it might be that sorta thing Steve.   

Another thing I am seeing that maybe you can fix for the future is the "civilian line colonist dump"...possibly since I am playing an older version of the game you have fixed this but from observation it seems that whenever a colony has spare capacity every last single colony ship from every line runs to it and dumps their population on the poor hapless worlds unsuspecting infrastructure...causing massive negative growth.

Even when there are several shipping lines they all seem to target the same colony at the same time even when multiple possible target colonies exist.  I'd suggest revisiting this code and seeing if you could at least spread the various shipping lines out, maybe calculating the shipping lines capacity and comparing it to the space available at the colony or something.  There is an infinite number of solutions...but some are likely a bit more computationally intense than others.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 10, 2018, 03:20:09 AM »

Steve, I'm not sure why you programmed it in this fashion.   Why look in a system that has no sites?  I'm fairly sure what is happening is that the program is never getting to the systems with available sites and likely never will since there is always a blocking system or three ahead of them.

I'm not sure either :)

It was very old code and I just replicated it for C# Aurora. However, it is a lot faster and easier in C# to find eligible systems so I'll revisit this and make it more sensible.
Posted by: Paul M
« on: October 10, 2018, 03:15:48 AM »

Hmmm....Ok weath is around 150K per year so there is a 15% chance of a check being made plus the CMCs in Sol grow consistantly (and that is a lower chance).
Sol has the highest population.  Next is Alpha C where the problem may be that the site is on the B component which is over 80AU from the A component though there is a colony with 25 m in the B component.  Next is Gliese 505 and I'm not sure what is there for sites (possibly none).  Next is Gliese 526 and again I'm not too sure there is a site there at all.   Next is Gliese 408 and there is nothing in terms of sites to the best of my memory.  Last is Gl493.1 where there is a dozen sites.  After that all the other colonized systems have sites but not 10 m population.

Steve, I'm not sure why you programmed it in this fashion.   Why look in a system that has no sites?  I'm fairly sure what is happening is that the program is never getting to the systems with available sites and likely never will since there is always a blocking system or three ahead of them.

From what I see based on what you wrote:
Chance to check is 15% (based on income)
Chance to look in Sol: 50% = 50%
Chance to look in Alpha C = (100%-50%)*50%=25%
Chance to look in Gliese 505 =(100-50%)*(100-50%)*50%=13%
Chance to look in Gliese 526 = (...)*50% = 7%
Chance to look in Gliese 408 = (...)*50% = 4%
Chance to look in Gl 493.1 = (...)*50% = 2%

If the first roll suceeds and there is interest in stating a CMC somewhere why not keep looking until a site is found?  Then the fact that their are older and more developed and exhausted systems or systems without a site for a CMC dosen't block the process completely.  As when a site showed up in Sol after I explored the oort cloud it was within a few months equiped with a CMC.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 09, 2018, 05:27:04 PM »

In VB6, a check is made each construction phase to see if new civilian mines are checked. The chance of this check is based on a random number of one million with a successful check equal to annual wealth or less. There must also be two populations for that race.

If a check takes place, the code orders all systems that contain a population of 10m or more (on a single body) and then steps through them in descending order of population. In each step, there is a 50% chance the system will be checked. Once a system is checked, no more will be checked in that phase.

The code then searches that system for bodies without a current population, less than 80 AU from the star, that have at least 15,000 tons of Duranium or Sorium and accessibility 0.7 or higher. The one with the highest combined amount of minerals of any type where accessibility is at least 0.5 accessibility is chosen.

C# is similar but only checks for Duranium, not Sorium.
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: October 09, 2018, 03:20:08 PM »

Well, I don't know how Steve coded things, so it is entirely possible that 'having had a colony on the body at any point, for any reason' is enough to remove them from the list of CMC sites.  Otherwise, it may simply be a case that the Sol sites are sufficiently numerous and/or high quality, that 99% (or more) of the 'growth' goes there instead of the other systems.  I do recall there being weighting system to the random allocation that makes not all sites equal.

Finally, as a last guess, I have a vague memory of a discussion of upping the requirement from 10 million population to 25 million (to be the same as the source/destination for colonists cut-off) or 40 million (for reasons that I definitely don't remember).  I don't think the CMC code was actually changed,  but only Steve could say for sure.

.


Edited to add:  Ooh, one last thing.  It may be the requirement is "10 million pop and a spaceport" rather than "10 million pop" alone.
Posted by: Paul M
« on: October 09, 2018, 01:28:02 PM »

I understand the lack of a "colony" claim requirement and have purposely removed the "colony" after my geo-survey team was done so the places are free and at least one system has over a dozen suitable places for a CMC...  I have read and re-read the rules on them so far as I can see they should show up outside of Sol...the NCC has 4 systems besides Sol with planets greater the 10 m population...but Sol has Earth, Mars, Luna, Io, Calisto, Venus and Ganymede as population sites...so maybe the solar colonies are blocking formation of extra-solar CMCs somehow?

I'm just baffled I have to admit...