Jump Tender Stations

[liveware (OP)]

So...

I tried building some jump tender stations in a recent game. Their performance was not so great. Looking for some suggestions.

First station: Military jump drive, 25000 ton jump capacity. Primary goal was to use this station to jump survey fleets, cargo fleets, and military ships (if hostile forces detected on the far side of the jump point). Result was unacceptable because it could not jump commercial engine equipped ships. Ok, I should have guessed that given it had a mil-spec jump drive (I thought I had read somewhere the MJD could jump commercial engine ships?).

Second station: Commercial jump drive, 50000 ton jump capacity. Same goals as first station. Results were unacceptable because it could not jump mil-spec engine ships.

Now I am confused. One of my stations should have been able to jump both military and commercial engine ships unless I have inaccurate information about how jump drives are supposed to work. Note that in all of my testing my largest ship was less than 10k tons and each station was intentionally designed to be just under the maximum tonnage of the equipped jump drive (also stations were capable of self-jumping based on testing).

So my questions are:

1. Can a commercial jump drive jump a ship equipped with a military engine?

2. Can a military jump drive jump a ship equipped with a commercial engine?

3. What is the best way to order a non-jumpship through a jump point with a jump drive equipped jump point tender present? (My current method seems extremely tedious)

[Froggiest1982]

So...

I tried building some jump tender stations in a recent game. Their performance was not so great. Looking for some suggestions.

First station: Military jump drive, 25000 ton jump capacity. Primary goal was to use this station to jump survey fleets, cargo fleets, and military ships (if hostile forces detected on the far side of the jump point). Result was unacceptable because it could not jump commercial engine equipped ships. Ok, I should have guessed that given it had a mil-spec jump drive (I thought I had read somewhere the MJD could jump commercial engine ships?).

Second station: Commercial jump drive, 50000 ton jump capacity. Same goals as first station. Results were unacceptable because it could not jump mil-spec engine ships.

Now I am confused. One of my stations should have been able to jump both military and commercial engine ships unless I have inaccurate information about how jump drives are supposed to work. Note that in all of my testing my largest ship was less than 10k tons and each station was intentionally designed to be just under the maximum tonnage of the equipped jump drive (also stations were capable of self-jumping based on testing).

So my questions are:

1. Can a commercial jump drive jump a ship equipped with a military engine?

2. Can a military jump drive jump a ship equipped with a commercial engine?

3. What is the best way to order a non-jumpship through a jump point with a jump drive equipped jump point tender present? (My current method seems extremely tedious)

1. No

2. YES

3. Honestly, I don't use much fix tenders so I don't know. I either have fleets with a tender or a Jump Gate.

As far as I know, the only change to Jump Drives is this http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg111498#msg111498 which is great because was too hard to calculate all the times.

You can read from Steve how the jump drive works here http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=4413.msg44162#msg44162

[consiefe]

I think you better use a standart jump tender base with both drives equipped. Since it's a base and designed to be tugged (if I understood correctly) added weight is not so much of a problem and it will serve your all purposes.

If I would do it, I'd add some beams to provide JP defense as well. Actually I'm now considering it.

To add the rules, it seems there is only one type of engine for a drive class, I think it's for preventing getting away with one JD type. Once you have the correct drive you can jump as many ships as you want using "standart transit" which causes much longer jump sickness. JD squadron jump is however tied to the squad jump tech.

[liveware (OP)]

It is impossible to install both types of jump drives on a single station. Tested in v1.9.X.

I will probably go with a jump ship instead of a station next time around with the design goal of building a fleet around a particular jump squadron size.

[consiefe]

In that case to make it work we need two seperate modules of the same JDB.

Anyway I generally use my light carrier as the fleet jumper.

[Thrake]

I don't think you need to do more than park the tender at the JP to get it done. The only issue you might run into is to tick the consider that the fleet is jump capable tick box.

[Pedroig]

So...

I tried building some jump tender stations in a recent game. Their performance was not so great. Looking for some suggestions.

First station: Military jump drive, 25000 ton jump capacity. Primary goal was to use this station to jump survey fleets, cargo fleets, and military ships (if hostile forces detected on the far side of the jump point). Result was unacceptable because it could not jump commercial engine equipped ships. Ok, I should have guessed that given it had a mil-spec jump drive (I thought I had read somewhere the MJD could jump commercial engine ships?).

Second station: Commercial jump drive, 50000 ton jump capacity. Same goals as first station. Results were unacceptable because it could not jump mil-spec engine ships.

Now I am confused. One of my stations should have been able to jump both military and commercial engine ships unless I have inaccurate information about how jump drives are supposed to work. Note that in all of my testing my largest ship was less than 10k tons and each station was intentionally designed to be just under the maximum tonnage of the equipped jump drive (also stations were capable of self-jumping based on testing).

So my questions are:

1. Can a commercial jump drive jump a ship equipped with a military engine?

2. Can a military jump drive jump a ship equipped with a commercial engine?

3. What is the best way to order a non-jumpship through a jump point with a jump drive equipped jump point tender present? (My current method seems extremely tedious)

1.  NO
2.  NO (This use to be YES under VB, but in C# drives MUST match) http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=11002.0
3.  Without knowing your current method or reasoning this is very hard to answer.  Also if you are trying to do standard jump or squad jump makes a difference as well.

Since Commercial ships always standard jump, one thing to be done is to have commercial jump tender stations at the points and then have Military ships use military jump ships.  (Another "trick" is to build huge commercial hangers and then "dock" military vessels inside and then jump the station back and forth...)

[liveware (OP)]

3.  Without knowing your current method or reasoning this is very hard to answer.  Also if you are trying to do standard jump or squad jump makes a difference as well.

What I had been doing in my previous campaign (which I abandoned due to spending too many resources with my abortive jump station attempts) was:

1. Create fleet that I want to transfer to another system.
2. Order fleet to join jump station fleet as sub-fleet.
3. Order jump station fleet to transit.
4. Detatch sub-fleet and proceed with mission.

I was hoping to find a way to accomplish all that without needing to have my initial fleet join the jump station fleet.

Since Commercial ships always standard jump, one thing to be done is to have commercial jump tender stations at the points and then have Military ships use military jump ships.

This has been my approach in my current campaign, though I will initially be using jump drive equipped freighters to help set up mining operations in the first few star systems. I have switched to a carrier-centric fleet doctrine, and jump-drive carriers seem to be working out so far as my main jump ships. Also, I didn't realize commercial ships can't squadron jump, that may have contributed to my confusion.

On a somewhat related note, I messed up my first jump carrier design in a humorous way. I had equipped it with commercial engines for improved fuel efficiency and didn't realize that the mil-spec jump drive I equipped it with would be unable to jump the ship until it failed to transit the jump point I sent it to explore 

*Edits: I can't type properly to save my life

[Gabethebaldandbold]

In C#, military jump engines can only jump military engines. but you can put commertial engines on military ships and jump them with commertial drives as far as I am aware

[liveware (OP)]

Yes, commercial jump drives can jump commercial engines. This is currently what I use on my freighters.

Also, the only reason I didn't swap my carrier's jump drive for a commercial jump drive is that my only available commercial jump drive was far too large for my carrier design and I could not produce a larger carrier at any of my shipyards. So I swapped the engines instead.

[liveware (OP)]

Based on my experience, commercial jump drives can NOT jump ships equipped with military engines. V1.9.X.

[kenlon]

Based on my experience, commercial jump drives can NOT jump ships equipped with military engines. V1.9.X.

Yes, but what Gabethebaldandbold was saying is that you can jump military ships with commercial engines with a commercial jump drive. It's not based on the whether the ship is classified as military or commercial, but whether the drives are military or commercial.

And you're *way* overcomplicating jump tenders.

How to jump using a jump tender:

• Fly to a jump point with a jump tender on either side of it.
• Choose a standard transit.
• Profit.

If you're using the "Autoroute to system" movement orders, you'll need to check the box for considering the fleet to be jump capable for it to path properly.

[Ehndras]

What. We can skip all the bs and just port directly through? Damn.

Here I was, having a tender on EACH side, and attaching sub-fleets then un-attaching them, to squad transit *facepalm*

[liveware (OP)]

And you're *way* overcomplicating jump tenders.

How to jump using a jump tender:

• Fly to a jump point with a jump tender on either side of it.
• Choose a standard transit.
• Profit.

If you're using the "Autoroute to system" movement orders, you'll need to check the box for considering the fleet to be jump capable for it to path properly.

I swear I tried that but got an error.... maybe it wasn't working because I was trying to jump military grav-survey ships using a commercial jump drive. Can't remember now.

Ah well, looks like jump stations should be working based on what others are saying, and are much simpler to use than I had assumed. They may have a place in my empire yet.

[DFNewb]

All you have to do is make two stations and put them on 1 side only of a pair of JPs.

Both stations are commercial so no worries about deployment time and maintenance. you can give them engines or not up to you.

1 station has a military jump drive set so it can jump your largest military ships. You will need the commercial one to jump this one.
1 station has a commercial jump drive so it can jump all your commercial ships (usually I don't even use these as the civvies can't use them, instead I stabilize points between my colonies as I like to secure the route before letting the civvies go).

If using tugs I think the civvie one needs squad size 4 engine (or you micro 1 and jump it, then micro the other but it's a hassle, also not sure but MAYBE size 3 squadron works). You can jump any number of ships using standard jump through either side of a JP when you have both these sides park on a JP.