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Posted by: Bughunter
« on: May 07, 2020, 04:22:07 PM »

Agreed, I stopped replying to everything now and marking them Confirmed instead.

After doing bug preprocessing on and off for just a few days now I'm even more impressed how Steve could do this and fixing them and play the game and all the other stuff he does.
Posted by: Yonder
« on: May 05, 2020, 05:34:24 PM »

Yeah, for example I took a break after a couple weeks, and every few days I've been scanning through the reported bugs to decide if it's time for me to start up a longer campaign. Now it's not really easy to do that, because the "potential" bug thread is even harder to read through because there is a lot more back and forth in it.
Posted by: Kyle
« on: May 05, 2020, 02:30:22 PM »

It would still be nice to be able to see the list of confirmed bugs, as a sort of more up-to-date list of known issues
Posted by: Inglonias
« on: May 05, 2020, 02:03:00 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on May 05, 2020, 11:16:30 AM
Quote from: Inglonias on May 05, 2020, 11:03:39 AM
I wanted to note that the confirmed bug thread is still invisible, and that's kind of annoying. I want to know what bugs have been fixed so far, basically.

I've created a changes post with the bug fixes so far.

That works great, yeah. Thanks.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: May 05, 2020, 11:16:30 AM »

Quote from: Inglonias on May 05, 2020, 11:03:39 AM
I wanted to note that the confirmed bug thread is still invisible, and that's kind of annoying. I want to know what bugs have been fixed so far, basically.

I've created a changes post with the bug fixes so far.
Posted by: Inglonias
« on: May 05, 2020, 11:03:39 AM »

I wanted to note that the confirmed bug thread is still invisible, and that's kind of annoying. I want to know what bugs have been fixed so far, basically.
Posted by: Migi
« on: May 04, 2020, 02:55:23 PM »

Quote from: Bughunter on May 04, 2020, 04:54:07 AM
About WAI or not. In cases where this is not certain I think we should pass it on to Steve as long as the bug report meet other criteria. He is the ultimate and as I see it only authority on such things. If we can filter out the ones where he already answered in the past we still save a lot of his time here compared to before.
I think it would be worth feeding most or some of the results into the FAQ thread.
Posted by: SpikeTheHobbitMage
« on: May 04, 2020, 07:34:55 AM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on May 03, 2020, 08:51:21 AM
Quote from: Cosinus on May 03, 2020, 07:40:32 AM
I agree that it is more work to set it up, but this work only needs to be done once and can probably be assigned to the volunteer bug moderators. Dwarf Fortress worked with a bug report forum just like this one for years, but now I don't think they would ever go back to that. The advantages are a benefit for everyone.

At work, several teams in my department uses JIRA for analytics requests and we also use Confluence for IT projects, so I am familiar with the type of software involved. I avoid them personally because my experience has been that they create a bureaucratic wall between the stakeholders and the delivery department, but if the various teams believe they can make it work I am not going to stand in their way. I always deal direct with people by email or instant chat because it works better for me and that personal connection helps a lot I need their help. My philosophy is always the least amount of process necessary to get the job done.

I am hoping that the moderator concept will keep communication flowing in an easy way but enable me to spend my own time more effectively. I'm not trying to make Aurora players into professional testers - I just need a low process approach that can handle the fact they are not.
With all due respect, Steve, and having suffered under such idiocy myself at work, the moderator system itself is that very 'bureaucratic wall', not whichever software tool happens to be in use.  The problems happen when the lines of communication are cut off entirely, which in my experience is invariably due to incompetence and petty turf wars among management, and frankly I haven't seen any of that from your team.  As long as there is open communication between yourself, your mods, and us players, so that systemic problems can be brought to light and dealt with, then the system will continue to work as intended.  As for what tool is used, whether the old bug thread, the new bug forum, or a more specialized system, that really comes down to workload, and time will tell.

Cheers.
Posted by: Bughunter
« on: May 04, 2020, 04:54:07 AM »

About WAI or not. In cases where this is not certain I think we should pass it on to Steve as long as the bug report meet other criteria. He is the ultimate and as I see it only authority on such things. If we can filter out the ones where he already answered in the past we still save a lot of his time here compared to before.
Posted by: Zincat
« on: May 04, 2020, 02:10:41 AM »

Quote from: Erik L on May 03, 2020, 03:25:56 PM
I can make it globally visible, yes.

That would really help us players, so we can see what is beign fixed from one version to the next
Posted by: thashepherd
« on: May 04, 2020, 12:44:24 AM »

FWIW I run a software team in my day job that works with Jira, and I'm happy to help out if that is selected - but I'd recommend something more lightweight. Maybe a shared Trello. As Steve sort of implied, the tool is irrelevant. Ideally something with an API is picked since we'd love to support automated bug reports via AuroraLoader.
Posted by: Tikigod
« on: May 03, 2020, 11:47:44 PM »

One of the things I hope anyone considering offering to be a 'Bug Mod' takes into account is to put aside familiarity with VB when assuming how Aurora should work when deciding what is a confirmed bug or not.... though not really sure how this would actually be done properly without actually requiring open sanity checking discussion on the forum covering how C# should be behaving with input from Steve where needed to clear up uncertainty..... which ends up just taking up more time from Steve short term until we're all up to speed on the specifics of C# with VB assumptions put aside.

There is already a fair bit of assumption 'answers' going around to newcomers to Aurora who are picking up C# as their first ever version of Aurora, and there have been occasions of newcomers have been given incorrect or partially inaccurate information because information from over familiarity with VB is taking priority over actually checking out specific C# differences, would suck to see some of that carrying over to deciding if something is working as intended or not.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: May 03, 2020, 03:25:56 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on May 03, 2020, 12:29:01 PM
Quote from: Randy on May 03, 2020, 12:20:41 PM
Only suggestion to add is that the confirmed bugs thread(s) be readable by all, but only editable by the moderators. That way people can easily see what is a known bug - and either provide additional details, or at least avoid reposting the same thing without knowledge of the existing condition. (Well at least for those that do try to reponsibly report bugs...)

Erik, is that possible?
I can make it globally visible, yes.
Posted by: Resand
« on: May 03, 2020, 02:26:55 PM »

I can't be the first to have thought of this, but just to make sure.
Now that Steve isn't "spamming" :P the bug thread with "fixed" posts, we're going to need a more proper list of fixed bugs with upcoming releases.
If for no other reason then being able to test the result.
Posted by: Yezarul
« on: May 03, 2020, 12:34:12 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley link=topic=11215. msg130313#msg130313 date=1588513881

At work, several teams in my department uses JIRA for analytics requests

I know when I was doing QA work for 5th Planet Games back in the day that we operated on JIRA as well.  I only know the QA portion of it with submitting the JIRA request, I'm not sure how it works on the other end, but I'll trust your judgement on not operating it.
The good thing about doing it on the forums is that it is easy to setup and will be easy to see how beneficial it is.

I think what you are mainly looking for is people to just clean up the clutter of what is already a known bug and WAI and to save you the headache of going through it yourself yeah? As Migi said, having the mods test things is a question, as they can't help troubleshoot things in the DB from dev point of view.

The way I'm thinking is you just want the clutter removed so you can focus on what is important to you rather than having to respond to what is essentially constantly yeah?
I think just a clear structure will sort people out as well.  By having a format (that you already request) they can easily transcribe things after they look at them, but some things might not be apparent.  Perhaps a discord channel for the bug team would be beneficial so they can seek clarity from yourself/other mods that might be in the know as well.

v/r