Author Topic: "The Lost Fleet" series  (Read 3108 times)

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Offline Paul M (OP)

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"The Lost Fleet" series
« on: August 27, 2009, 08:35:49 AM »
Ok if the first review can be classified as fictional science with out being likely to be in error this series is pure science fiction.  The series is by Jack Campell and is composed of the books: Lost Fleet Dauntless, LF Couragous, LF Valient, LF Fearless, and the last one LF Relentless.

The premise of the book is that in the future humanity has split into two warring factions and that one of them has launched the bulk of its fleet into the homesystem of the other to attempt to bring the century old war to a swift final conclusion.  It is ambushed but in the mean time picks up a life pod containing the "hero of the alliance"  Black Jack Geary in cold sleep.  So eventually or actually rather suddenly John Geary finds himself the most senior captain in the fleet and reluctantly takes command.  In the last 100 years basically the intericacies of space combat has been lost and tactics consist of "hie diddle diddle straight up the middle."  So he spends a good chunk of his time fighting not only the enemy but his own officers who are sort of "The morale is to the material as three is to one."  Neat concept but it rather fails in fleet battles.

So he has to make it through the entirety of Sindicate space to get the fleet back to Alliance territory.  While dealing with internal rivalries, emotional situations, the enemy fleet, his own officers, and a host of other things.

What I like about the stories is that the space battles are space battles.  They deal with things like time dialation (most battles are fought at no more than 0.08c to enable the automatic targeting system to hit), the delay of transmitting commands, sensor lag, etc.  They read like space battles.  There is a good mix of things with some ground action, planetary bombardment, etc.  And oddly enough John Geary as the fleet commander never leaves his flag ship to go on away teams....strange how that is.  There is a lot of rip van winkle bits added it with very nice touches I think.  I doubt these stories will be up for the Nebula award any time soon but they are a solid read in my books.  I think they have well done characters who are multi-dimensional rather than one sided characatures, intellegently done dialogue, a bit sparce descriptions of things.  I'm not sure I could describe most of the characters in the stories or even tell you what say the ships look like or the uniforms appear to be but again that is typical male writer for you.  The star systems, the tactics and all the gritty realism of the books I think will appeal to most people who play Aurora.

It not space opera per say but there are elements of that too.  I find that John Geary never grates on me like H. Herringswine does.  He does win battles because his enemy is unable to match his tactics but he never does it in a way that makes you feel anything but he deserved to win because he was clearly the better commander and yet at the same time he is clearly human.  He feels, he leads, he inspires in ways that I find believable.  His enemy may be defeated tactically they may make mistakes but they make mistakes you would expect and not always just so he can win.  Some of his victories are brutal one sided slaughters and others are by the skin on his teeth.  The enemy rarely does absolutely idiotic things just so he can win and presents in each book a generally interesting tactical deliema to be solved.

For at least in my view a good military SF read that isn't so long (each book is about 300 pages long) and has a good blend of action and plot with solid pacing I don't think you can do to wrongly.
 

Offline Beersatron

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2009, 09:03:36 AM »
Good review, I have read up to Relentless and am waiting on Victorious. I find the books to be a bit shorter than I am used to but I love large story arcs, with at least some thought into the background of the universe it is set into.

Side note, why do you call the Harrington series 'Herringswine'?  :lol:
 

Offline Paul M (OP)

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2009, 05:49:56 AM »
I call it Herringswine because my likeing for the books, and the character has been experiencing an exponential decrease as a function of book numbers for a long time now.  I stopped reading about Herringswine after that one where the Peeps were defeated in their attack on Manticore due to deux ex machina.  My tolerence for that was completely used up.  I despise the character of Herringswine and for the last few books was reading for the Peeps and the other secondary characters anyway.  The books "The Crown of Slaves" and its sequel are much better but I've pretty much given up on Webber and I've decided that my money would be better spent supporting authors whoes work I enjoy.

I understand this is heresy but I am sick and tired of being told she is a tactical genious when it is blindingly obvious she couldn't fight her way out of a paper bag without the author making the enemies behave like total idiots or else change the rules of the universe just so she can win.  As much as I think David Drake never has had an original idea in his life I much prefer the Lt Leary books as I find the setting and characters vastly better than the organic byproduct typically found on the south side of a northward proceeding male bovine that Webber has produced of late.
 

Offline Beersatron

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2009, 08:54:39 AM »
I just started reading the Lt Leary/RCN books and am onto the 3rd one. I use Stanza on my iPod Touch and get the eBooks from the baencd content on TheFifthImperium site.

I was originally put off the series when I first chanced upon it 4 years ago because it is high-tech set in an 18th Century atmosphere. But now that I have given it a chance I can see that it does actually work!

*possible spoilers below on the Harrington series!*

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I know what you mean about the actual Harrington character, you might be surprised to note (according to some reading list material that I saw) that Weber was going to kill her off at the Battle of Manticore and that the two spin-off series were meant to be set 20 years from now centered around her children. But, there was some kind of mix up with the co-authors on the spin-off books (or maybe it was that the fans really didn't want her to die) and the setting for the spin-offs were changed to be running in tandem to the main arc.

I do not necessarily see Harrington as a genius, but as somebody who can use the tools available to herself in the best possible way and who is one of those 'great charismatic' leaders who instill loyalty in their people for that extra mile. In the middle books she had the tech advantage and the advantage of the Peeps killing their own best naval personnel. In the latest books she still has a tech advantage but the Havenites have got their feet under themselves and were giving her a run for her money.
 

Offline Paul M (OP)

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2009, 01:11:28 PM »
I know what was supposed to happen and apparently it was the fans and to an extent D. Webber himself...frankly I'm all for the original plan.  I don't see her as either a good leader or a military commander worth spit.  I can't begin to understand why anyone would follow her to an ice cream store during a heat wave.  And I am right sick of the way the Manties pull technical miracle after technical miracle out of their collective backsides after a while it is tiresome and a lot of them are utter nonsense anyway.  It eventually gets both absurd and boring.

I like the 18th Century attitude in the stars of the Lt. Leary books...plus the crack shotlibrarian and her pyscho maid is a blast.  I don't know why exactly because most other series of Drake I've tried turned me off but this one I enjoy.  Part of it may be that he makes no effort to make Leary a paragon.  Leary himself even acknowledges that a lot of his victories had more to do with luck and doesn't seem to suffer delusions he could take his ship up against anything and win.  He just seems much much more human.  The same is true of Geary.  He is another "human" commander.  Herringswine is a geneengineered freakazoid in comparasion to either of them. I understand there are rabid fans for which this is heretical but I've lost any interest in the Herringswine series and to me the character is an absurd characture with not a single redeeming quality.  Frankly I cheer for the Peeps.
 

Offline MWadwell

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2009, 09:27:50 PM »
Quote from: "Paul M"
I know what was supposed to happen and apparently it was the fans and to an extent D. Webber himself...frankly I'm all for the original plan.  I don't see her as either a good leader or a military commander worth spit.  I can't begin to understand why anyone would follow her to an ice cream store during a heat wave.  And I am right sick of the way the Manties pull technical miracle after technical miracle out of their collective backsides after a while it is tiresome and a lot of them are utter nonsense anyway.  It eventually gets both absurd and boring.

I agree. I'm tired of the stereotypical characters, the technological "miracles" that allow the Manties to win, and the way HH is now being presented as a genie uber-person. Which is a shame, as I still enjoy the early books.

Quote
I like the 18th Century attitude in the stars of the Lt. Leary books...plus the crack shotlibrarian and her pyscho maid is a blast.  I don't know why exactly because most other series of Drake I've tried turned me off but this one I enjoy.  Part of it may be that he makes no effort to make Leary a paragon.  Leary himself even acknowledges that a lot of his victories had more to do with luck and doesn't seem to suffer delusions he could take his ship up against anything and win.  He just seems much much more human.  The same is true of Geary.  He is another "human" commander.  Herringswine is a geneengineered freakazoid in comparasion to either of them. I understand there are rabid fans for which this is heretical but I've lost any interest in the Herringswine series and to me the character is an absurd characture with not a single redeeming quality.  Frankly I cheer for the Peeps.

To be honest, I find myself liking the Leary series more so than the most recent HH books.
Later,
Matt
 

Offline Paul M (OP)

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2009, 06:12:34 AM »
Matt, my love affair with the series took its first hit at "Honor of the Queen" when I realized that had the BC come around the moon (as it should have baring that deux ex machina) then Honor's entire squadron would have been flash fried in seconds, actually that caused me to think more about "On Basilisk Station" and the fact that really the Peep commander was a dunce.  He should have heave too-d and then blasted the CL with his BC sized laser mounts with total surprise or just continued the missile engagement he was winning not turned back (since his mission was to exit the system anyway).  My dissillusionment basically grew from book to book after that as each new rabbit was pulled out of the hat.

What I think I like about the Leary books with regards to space combat is that not only does it make sense it has also not altered over the 5 books.  The missiles work the same, the dangers are the same, there has been no miracle systems introduced just so the RCN could win.  It's hard not to be mind boggled by the sudden addition of thrusters to the ships in the escape from the prision planet...million tonne vessels with hydrogen thrusters??  That is much the same as installing oarlocks on an Iowa class BB or Nimitz class CV...I have this sudden picture of sweating marines and "dum dum dum dum" drumming in the background "Ramming speed!"  Even docking thrusters are absurd for objects that massive.  Leary wins because he is a an astrogator par excellence, has an elite crew (wooden ships and iron men style), has a great deal of luck, and is basically willing to take risks without coming across as a suicidal sort.  The writer also sets up the battles so he can win without deux ex machina which I think is acceptable and I've yet to find the manipulation cheesy.  It may also be that drake is basing his stories on real events that happened which to a degree gives them depth that webbers lack.  I don't know if you ever spotted it in the Starfire ISW1-3 source book (The Stars at War??) but the aftermath writeups while entertaining actually had virtually nothing to do with likely battle outcomes under the starfire system.  The München crowd playtested a lot of them and generally speaking the results were at generally serious deviance from those write ups.  I'm not sure about ISW4 but I suspect as much...the scenarios there were just so huge it was hard to find one playable.  Even solo play through the first of ISW3's scenarios made a mockery of those aftermaths since with the 1 LS circle of death there was absolutely no reason for high fighter losses engaging fixed targets, and only because I role played the rigillians surprise at CM did they play a role.  So both ship and fighter losses were a lot lighter, then when I got to "Wall of Fire, Wall of Steel" the stupidity of argueing over where those bases should go was beyond belief.  I rolled to move half to the WP and the Rigillians lighter ships had to do a simultaneous transit out as they were hollow shells due to each arriving wave taking so many Pc hits.  They could only enter the minefield when they were all in system and by that time they were all shot to pieces and would have been lost trying to get through the minefield if it was even half the strength it was.  They still didn't loose that many ships or fighters (left 2 squadrons behind I think) since they could bring in carriers to collect the fighters and leave.  Had all the bases been there the Rigillian escorts would have died enmasse and the fighters could not carry the day with so many escorts and heavy ships present.  There always seemed to me to be a disconnect between how Webber imagines things going and how they would go under game rules.  This seems to have carried over to his other books in some sort of odd twisted way.

So anyway yes I agree with you completely, and have basically removed Webber from my list of authors whose work my hard earned euros will go towards supporting.  And at one time I was a huge fan of his, but well, just not anymore.
 

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2010, 11:36:37 AM »
Paul, I´d like to thank you for recomending this series.
I had never heard of it and ordered it from Amazon because I realy liked what you described.

A very good read, and you are right, the space battles just feel _real_.
Again, thanks for recomending it.
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
 

Offline Paul M (OP)

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2010, 06:38:00 AM »
Hello Ralph,
Sorry for the delay in replying.  I have been neglecting Aurora of late in favor of Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2.  I am glad you enjoyed them, I am looking forward to the next book.

Chow, Paul

added in the edit:  where are you in Germany?  I'm in Ismaning near München.
 

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2010, 10:33:47 AM »
Near Ellwangen (about 30 km from Aalen), Wuerttemberg
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
 

Offline AndonSage

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2010, 02:51:10 AM »
I'll have to disagree with some of you about the Honor Harrington series, as I love it. But we can leave it at that :) I had the good fortune to travel around Germany / Austria / Switzerland for two weeks in 1987. I was also able to attend Essen Spieltage from 1999 to 2001. Best games convention in the world :) (and that comes from someone who ran Origins and GenCon for a couple of years, back in the '90s, when I was working for Andon Unlimited / Wizards of the Coast) I'd love to go back to Germany, but my disabilities (neuropathy, reflexive sympathetic dystrophy and narcolepsy) keep me from traveling now.

P.S. Mission of Honor, the newest Honor Harrington novel, is being released on June 22, 2010.
"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once." - Robert A. Heinlein
"Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you!" - Pericles (430 B.C.)
"A government big enough to give you everyt
 

Offline Beersatron

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2010, 12:38:20 PM »
Quote from: "AndonSage"
I'll have to disagree with some of you about the Honor Harrington series, as I love it. But we can leave it at that :) I had the good fortune to travel around Germany / Austria / Switzerland for two weeks in 1987. I was also able to attend Essen Spieltage from 1999 to 2001. Best games convention in the world :) (and that comes from someone who ran Origins and GenCon for a couple of years, back in the '90s, when I was working for Andon Unlimited / Wizards of the Coast) I'd love to go back to Germany, but my disabilities (neuropathy, reflexive sympathetic dystrophy and narcolepsy) keep me from traveling now.

P.S. Mission of Honor, the newest Honor Harrington novel, is being released on June 22, 2010.

I am looking forward to both of those books, not long after finishing the second Torch novel.
 

Offline AndonSage

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2010, 02:26:52 AM »
Just a reminder that The Lost Fleet: Victorious (book 6) was released in the USA on Tuesday (April 27). My pre-ordered copy from amazon.com arrived that evening :)
"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once." - Robert A. Heinlein
"Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you!" - Pericles (430 B.C.)
"A government big enough to give you everyt
 

Offline Beersatron

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2010, 01:03:11 PM »
Quote from: "AndonSage"
Just a reminder that The Lost Fleet: Victorious (book 6) was released in the USA on Tuesday (April 27). My pre-ordered copy from amazon.com arrived that evening :)

Gah, I knew I should have went to Borders yesterday while I had the chance!
 

Offline sloanjh

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Re: "The Lost Fleet" series
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 02:01:01 AM »
Quote from: "Beersatron"
Quote from: "AndonSage"
Just a reminder that The Lost Fleet: Victorious (book 6) was released in the USA on Tuesday (April 27). My pre-ordered copy from amazon.com arrived that evening :-)  Not looking forward to the point where I run out of books I brought with me....

John