Combat Questions

[Lunaticus (OP)]

Have tried to tackle some enemy empire for the first time and got completely wiped out.  Need to understand what happened, maybe somebody can help me?

The combat was completely one-sided.  I saw some enemy missiles (Missile-Size 5) only when they were about 100k kilometers in front of my fleet.  However I am quite sure I have some functioning and active search sensor with Range 1. 9 m km with resolution 1.  So why am I not detecting these missiles at a range when I could still react?
After they show up at about 100k kilometers I try to assign my anti-missile missiles and my beam defenses but they do not seem to react at all.  The only thing I notice is that my CIWS is shooting down a couple of the missiles but most of them go through and do severe damage to my ships.

Then 1 minute later the next salvo shows up in the same way until my fleet is probably only salvagable minerals. 
Anything I might be doing wrong? My strategy was to detect the missiles at 1m km and then send some anti-missile-missiles and then try to kill the remaining missiles with long range laser defenses but it does not seem to work.  Or is my tech level just too low?

Any advice appreciated!

[Erik L]

First make sure you are running in 5 second increments.

The fire delay could be because of inexperienced crews. They take longer to react than trained crews. Fleet maneuvers will alleviate this.

Did the enemy ships or missiles have ECM? This will degrade detection ranges and to hits.

[bobterrius]

Also keep in mind that  your resolution 1 can detect an object of size 1 at 1.9 million kilometer.

But a size 5 missile is not a size 1 object (= 50 tonnes).

When you create your sensor you can see the range of detection for a missile size 6, size 8, and size 12 just below the range of detection for an object size 1.

[Starkiller]

I would try for a res 1 active with as large a range as possible. The farther the range of the scanner, the
farther the missles will be when detected. It may also be that your tech is too low. How fast were the enemy
missles, and how fast are your AMMs? Even detecting the enemy ship killers at a decent distance won't do
any good if the interception chance is too small, as I found out to my cost. Now I have escort cruisers with
the fleets. No offensive weapons at all, though AMMs can be used offensively. Just a huge AMM broadside, with
multiple fire controls to target several missles at once, a high range res 1 active, and the highest range AMM and
fire control I can manage. The escorts demolish the incoming salvos, while the fleet demolishes the enemy.
First time I tried it, I was surprised by how well it worked. ECCMs linked to your fire controls will help nullify
the enemy ECM. Hope this helps.

Eric

[Erik L]

I would try for a res 1 active with as large a range as possible. The farther the range of the scanner, the
farther the missles will be when detected. It may also be that your tech is too low. How fast were the enemy
missles, and how fast are your AMMs? Even detecting the enemy ship killers at a decent distance won't do
any good if the interception chance is too small, as I found out to my cost. Now I have escort cruisers with
the fleets. No offensive weapons at all, though AMMs can be used offensively. Just a huge AMM broadside, with
multiple fire controls to target several missles at once, a high range res 1 active, and the highest range AMM and
fire control I can manage. The escorts demolish the incoming salvos, while the fleet demolishes the enemy.
First time I tried it, I was surprised by how well it worked. ECCMs linked to your fire controls will help nullify
the enemy ECM. Hope this helps.

Eric

This is one thing Steve has accomplished really well with Aurora, the mixed-fleet concept as opposed to what I call the "Enterprise" method of shipbuilding, where all ships are jacks-of-all-trades.

[Hawkeye]

Things to do before a battle:

1) Assign all weapons to a firecon, and missiles to launchers
2) Set all AMM fircons to PD mode (at least at 2 to 1 probably higher)
3) Set all PD turret firecons to automatic defense (personally, I use final defensive fire)
4) Set all other beam firecons (with their assigned weapons) to automatic defense as with the turrets. You can assign them to offensive tasks, once the enemy comes into range

If you have done that, the AMM launchers should launch AMMs as soon as enemy missiles are detected inside the AMM firecon range and your turrets will automaticaly fire at incoming missiles just before they impact on your ships.

[Lunaticus (OP)]

Many thanks for all the very helpful advice, there were several points I was completely unaware of.   I will try this battle again and hope to do better this time.   

Some additional points I am wondering about from the replies:
- How can I see the enemy ECM and the speed of the enemy missiles? In the combat display so far I have only seen the size, distance and number of the enemy missiles. 
- Is there some information if my AMMs have successfully intercepted enemy missiles? So far I only got (rarely) an information they had been fired and then next turn they self-destructed as the enemy missile salvo had already hit my fleet. 
- Will PD final defensive fire also work if my beam range is pretty low? I.  e.   the last stop (5 seconds) where I see the missiles before they impact is at about 130k kilometers and my beam distance limit is about 70k kilometers.   Will they fire at all at the enemy missiles or are the enemy missiles just too fast?

[James Patten]

In the Combat control window (sorry, I can't think of its real name or what F key you hit to get there), for your ships with AMMs, you may want to try selecting the 'Automated Fire' checkbox.  Make sure you've set the firecon to PD mode (2-to-1 or higher).  When that happens, I notice that as soon as there is an active sensor reading of the enemy missiles, the AMMs are launched.  That means they are launched 5 seconds before you can manually launch them.

The problem is, if you are seeing missiles at 130K km one increment, and the next increment they have hit your ships, that means those missiles are moving at at least 130K k/5s.  That's really fast.  Ideally your AMMs should be that fast or faster.  Don't forget on the F12 Fleet screen to look at the initiative number of your fleet, and raise it as high as you can.  It defaults to 100.

[Brian Neumann]

The Combat Control Window is F8.  If you have beam weapons they can be set to fire on either area, or final defense mode.  In area fire they will fire at any missiles in range on your normal firing time.  On final defense fire mode they will fire at any missiles which get to close to the ship.  How close is determined by the setting you use for the fire control (F8 screen).  A note however, your fire control for anything less than a range of 10,000km assumes it is 10,000km for your chance to hit.  This means that you need a decent chance to hit at 10,000km or your point defense is not going to be very effective.

Brian

[Nabobalis]

This is one thing Steve has accomplished really well with Aurora, the mixed-fleet concept as opposed to what I call the "Enterprise" method of shipbuilding, where all ships are jacks-of-all-trades.

So is it impossible to play with the  "Enterprise" method of shipbuilding?

[Erik L]

So is it impossible to play with the  "Enterprise" method of shipbuilding?

I wouldn't say impossible. Your ships are going to be larger overall than a comparably capable specific role fleet.

Take an dedicated escort at 6k tons. Figure half that is armor/shields/fuel. Now take a dedicated beam ship at 6k tons. Figure the same 50% for necessities. Add in a dedicated missile ship at 6k tons with the same 50%. To put all of these into one ship you are talking 9k tons, not counting armor, shields, fuel, engines, etc. Figure your "Enterprise" class will be around 15k tons when all is said and done. For the tonnage of one "Enterprise", you've got 2 and a half dedicated ships. Expand that to fleets. Assume a fleet/squadron of "Enterprise" has 10 ships. 150k tons. That's 25 dedicated ships. The loss of one of the all around ships is a greater blow to fleet offense/defense than to lose a dedicated ship.

Note - The numbers specified are made up and may have no basis in reality whatsoever.

[DatAlien]

Dont forget that the Enterprises also have Survey Capabilitys

Pros of "Enterprise" Methode:

- You dont need that much good Commanders
- Bigger Ships have an higher building rate
- You need just one ship yard instead of three

Contras

- the enemy can detect you on longer range

[Nabobalis]

I wouldn't say impossible. Your ships are going to be larger overall than a comparably capable specific role fleet.

Take an dedicated escort at 6k tons. Figure half that is armor/shields/fuel. Now take a dedicated beam ship at 6k tons. Figure the same 50% for necessities. Add in a dedicated missile ship at 6k tons with the same 50%. To put all of these into one ship you are talking 9k tons, not counting armor, shields, fuel, engines, etc. Figure your "Enterprise" class will be around 15k tons when all is said and done. For the tonnage of one "Enterprise", you've got 2 and a half dedicated ships. Expand that to fleets. Assume a fleet/squadron of "Enterprise" has 10 ships. 150k tons. That's 25 dedicated ships. The loss of one of the all around ships is a greater blow to fleet offense/defense than to lose a dedicated ship.

Note - The numbers specified are made up and may have no basis in reality whatsoever.

Well I've always played with dedicated ships but I want to try if a Star Trek approach to ships will work. Shields and beams and all round ships.

[Brian Neumann]

Well I've always played with dedicated ships but I want to try if a Star Trek approach to ships will work. Shields and beams and all round ships.

This can work out fairly well with a couple of important points.  You need to be faster than your targets as a missile armed fleet is going to get to pound you first, if they are faster then they can fall back, re-ammo and repeat.  Your shields need to be fairly good tech.  I wouldn't want to do this with less than epsilon level shields.  Your beam weapons need a solid proportion in turrets with fire control to handle the missiles.  If you use lasers then your medium sized (15-25cm) lasers will probably still be able to reach out to your maximum fire control range so you are not giving up the range.  The downside to them is they are not very powerfull at long range.  Mesons would work well, except against plasma torpedo's where they are almost useless.  CIWS systems are probably going to be a liability on most ships as the extra tonnage would be better spent on an extra 10-15cm weapons turret.  The individual ships loss of pd firepower is usually made up with the help the other ships give them with their extra turrets.  I would still want a few specialized anti-missile escorts with anti-missile missiles for large fleets to help thin out the larger missile attacks.  If you do this do not try to have your amm stop each salvo, instead try to thin them so your energy pd weapons can handle the bigger swarms of missiles.

Good luck

Brian

[Starkiller]

I'd put in a few more CONs than detectable at longer range. Many different weapons means more FireCons for
them as well. The more stuff a ship has on it, the slower it's speed gets. You need to keep adding engines and
fuel to bring up speed and range, which makes it even bigger. I like the dedicated ships because they are
generally smaller, faster, and easier to manage in battle. When dealing with fast ships like Precursers, you
REALLY want speed, and AMM capability. You know how many size 1 AMM launchers can go into a dedicated
9000 ton escort? Quite good protection for a small fleet. I DO occasionally like 'jack of all, Master of none' ships,
as they are good for operating either alone, or in small groups, like including one in a survey squadron, to
provide protection. But for large fleet formations, I tend to prefer the 'Master of One' style of ship. They just
seem to do better in big fights, in my experience.

Eric