Very first military ships

[PandaQ (OP)]

Im about 25 years into my current game (my first one) and I've yet to build up any real military force.  All i've done so far is build my Earth, colonize Mars, and slow surveying of nearby systems.  Sol has 6 jump points of which i've gone down three so far.  I recently went down the fourth and as my survey ships approached the first planet they encountered 4 alien ships.  These turned hostile as i ordered my ships to fall back, and attacked, destroying one survey ship and then leaving.  In a hurry I've put together two ship designs to hopefully build and defend that jump point.  I would very much like some advice because they are my first military and missile designs.

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Willy class Escort Cruiser    17,150 tons     1271 Crew     3309.2 BP      TCS 343  TH 880  EM 150
5131 km/s     Armour 3-59     Shields 5-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 11     PPV 20
Annual Failure Rate: 213%    IFR: 3%    Maint Capacity 1327 MSP    Max Repair 480 MSP    Est Time: 1.15 Years
Magazine 660   

Magneto-plasma Drive E8 ARM-1 (22)    Power 80    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 40    Armour 1    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 65.6 billion km   (147 days at full power)
Delta R300/17.5 Shields (2)   Total Fuel Cost  35 Litres per day

CIWS-120 (1x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 1 Missile Launcher (20)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC14-R1 Anti Missle (1)     Range 14.4m km    Resolution 1
Pebble S1 MK I (660)  Speed: 33,600 km/s   End: 2.5m    Range: 5.1m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 336 / 201 / 100

Active Search Sensor 288m S30 5000 T (1)     GPS 48000     Range 288.0m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
That is my AMM cruiser

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10-Shooter class Missile Cruiser    17,500 tons     1519 Crew     3113.88 BP      TCS 350  TH 880  EM 150
5028 km/s     Armour 3-60     Shields 5-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 11     PPV 50
Annual Failure Rate: 222%    IFR: 3.1%    Maint Capacity 1223 MSP    Max Repair 160 MSP    Est Time: 2.14 Years
Magazine 434   

Magneto-plasma Drive E8 ARM-1 (22)    Power 80    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 40    Armour 1    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 64.3 billion km   (147 days at full power)
Delta R300/17.5 Shields (2)   Total Fuel Cost  35 Litres per day

CIWS-120 (1x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Fire Control S16 64-12000 (1)    Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22

Size 5 Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 75
Missile Fire Control FC288-R100 (1)     Range 288.0m km    Resolution 100
RedHawk S4 MK I (108)  Speed: 17,000 km/s   End: 34.7m    Range: 35.4m km   WH: 7    Size: 4    TH: 113 / 68 / 34

Active Search Sensor 48m KM 5000 Ton S5 (1)     GPS 8000     Range 48.0m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposesAnd thats my missile cruiser.

[Narmio]

Two small things:

1) No EM/Thermal passive sensors.  Are these going to be travelling with a scout? If not, they'll be blind without their actives on.

2) It's usually a good idea to have multiple fire controls on an anti-missile ship. Each fire control can only target a single "salvo" of missiles, which is all the missiles fired by one ship in one tick.  So while you have 20 AMM launchers, you can only target one ship's volley of missiles each turn, even when you're facing ten ships with only one launcher each.  I use a ratio of 1:8 for FCs:AMMs, although I've seen other people with more FCs than that.

[Ziusudra]

A couple more:

The Willy needs a resolution 1 active sensor, not 100.

The CIWS on the 10-Shooter does not need a fire control, that is already built into it.

[Ziusudra]

The RedHawks are quite slow, they'll have trouble making it through enemy point defense. I'd drop the warhead strength to 4, maybe 5.

[PandaQ (OP)]

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Arachno class Surveillance Cruiser    20,000 tons     1611 Crew     4818.4 BP      TCS 400  TH 1040  EM 60
5200 km/s    JR 6-50     Armour 1-65     Shields 2-300     Sensors 30/30/0/0     Damage Control Rating 24     PPV 29
Annual Failure Rate: 228%    IFR: 3.2%    Maint Capacity 2108 MSP    Max Repair 2070 MSP    Est Time: 0.45 Years

J21000(6-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 21000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 6
Magneto-plasma Drive E8 ARM-1 (26)    Power 80    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 40    Armour 1    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 56.3 billion km   (125 days at full power)
Delta R300/17.5 Shields (1)   Total Fuel Cost  18 Litres per day

Quad 12cm C2 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (1x4)    Range 128,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 16-8     RM 4    ROF 10        4 4 4 4 3 2 2 2 1 1
CIWS-120 (1x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Fire Control S16 64-12000 (1)    Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22

Thermal Sensor TH5-30 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km
EM Detection Sensor EM5-30 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
I plan for 4 10-Shooters, 1 Willy, and 1 of these guys for each Battle group.  The Arachno acts as a kind of unit command and sensor ship.  I put the laser turret on it just so it has some combat capacity, don't know if it would be actually useful or not.

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RedHawk S4 MK II (108)  Speed: 32,000 km/s   End: 18.4m    Range: 35.4m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 213 / 128 / 64I about doubled the missile speed

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Active Search Sensor 28m S30 50 T (1)     GPS 480     Range 28.8m km    Resolution 1The new active sensor on the Willy

The Willy also now has a 1-5 FC to Launcher ratio.  (5 FC for the 20 launchers)

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Willy class Escort Cruiser    20,000 tons     1491 Crew     3980.4 BP      TCS 400  TH 1040  EM 150
5200 km/s     Armour 3-65     Shields 5-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 13     PPV 20
Annual Failure Rate: 246%    IFR: 3.4%    Maint Capacity 1617 MSP    Max Repair 480 MSP    Est Time: 1.18 Years
Magazine 660   

Magneto-plasma Drive E8 ARM-1 (26)    Power 80    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 40    Armour 1    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 56.3 billion km   (125 days at full power)
Delta R300/17.5 Shields (2)   Total Fuel Cost  35 Litres per day

CIWS-120 (1x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 1 Missile Launcher (20)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC14-R1 Anti Missle (5)     Range 14.4m km    Resolution 1
Pebble S1 MK I (660)  Speed: 33,600 km/s   End: 2.5m    Range: 5.1m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 336 / 201 / 100

Active Search Sensor 28m S30 50 T (1)     GPS 480     Range 28.8m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


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10-Shooter class Missile Cruiser    16,650 tons     1439 Crew     2993.28 BP      TCS 333  TH 880  EM 150
5285 km/s     Armour 3-58     Shields 5-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 11     PPV 50
Annual Failure Rate: 201%    IFR: 2.8%    Maint Capacity 1236 MSP    Max Repair 160 MSP    Est Time: 2.28 Years
Magazine 434   

Magneto-plasma Drive E8 ARM-1 (22)    Power 80    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 40    Armour 1    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 67.6 billion km   (147 days at full power)
Delta R300/17.5 Shields (2)   Total Fuel Cost  35 Litres per day

CIWS-120 (1x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 5 Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 75
Missile Fire Control FC288-R100 (1)     Range 288.0m km    Resolution 100
RedHawk S4 MK II (108)  Speed: 32,000 km/s   End: 18.4m    Range: 35.4m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 213 / 128 / 64

Active Search Sensor 48m KM 5000 Ton S5 (1)     GPS 8000     Range 48.0m km    Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[dooots]

You don't have any reactors for the lasers on the Arachno.

The Pebble could have its range cut in half.

The RedHawk is only size 4 but you are using size 5 launchers, and the fire control has a range of 288m km but the RedHawk only has a range of 35.4m km.

I would also drop the shields although I'm not sure what to do with the 1-2 hull space you would gain.

[PandaQ (OP)]

Is the laser even something that would be useful if someone came close range? I've been thinking about getting rid of it and instead putting in some drone-sensor buoys.   

Also whats wrong with the range on the Pebble? Is range that long not useful?

[Shadow]

The Pebble's range might be too long, considering it's an AMM. When you design a resolution-1 sensor, the game tells you at what distances it'll detect missiles of various sizes (which isn't the same as the base range). Chances are you won't be able to detect warheads anywhere near the Pebble's maximum range. You could bring it down closer to the fringe of your detection capability, and use the freed up fuel space to enhance its speed and maneuverability.

[Hawkeye]

As you want to use the ships in battlegroups, I´d drop the CIWS. Together with dropping the shields (shields that weak wont help you one bit) you might free enough space to mount a small PD-turret (personally, I´d go with half-sized gauss cannons in a twin turret).
The main advantage of a turret over a CIWS is that it can protect every ship in the battlegroup, while a CIWS only protects the ship carrying it.
With 6 ships in your battlegroup, that would give you another 6 turrets protecting your ships.

The Arachno should have a short ranged res-1 sensor (so it can use laser turret in case the Willy buyes it).

Also, the Arachno is your jumpship. This means, once destroyed, your battlegroup is stranded wherever it is. Having it only armored with tissue paper is probably not such a good idea 
And it´s EST Time is very, very small.
I´d probably exchange the rather large laser turret with one of the above mentioned twin-gauss turrets and use the freed space for armor and engineering.

[dooots]

Looking over the Arachno again I would say drop the turret, up the armor and engineering spaces.

If you design your resolution-1 sensor again (don't actually research it just look at the parameters at the bottom) it will tell you how far it can pick up missiles of size 6 or smaller.  It should be about 3m km for size 6 or smaller so the Pebble only needs a range of about 2.5m km.  If you want to attack larger missiles at long range you can increase the range of the pebble but I wouldn't go past the range at which you can see size 6 missiles.

[Charlie Beeler]

This is a fleet formula that has done well for me for a fleet that is dominated by offensive missile use.  For the most part I use it as a benchmark when someone posts designs for analysis.


Fleet Scout:  House the groups’ long range passive and active sensor suites.  Thermals should be able to detect your own strongest emissions at 100m km, same goes for you EM suite.  Actives should detect a 5000k ship at 100m km as well.

The Fleet Scout also mounts the main active sensor suite for missile defense.  This suite should be set for res 1 detection at  5-6m km.


Missile Cruiser:  This is your long range slugger and missiles are the punch that it is built around. 

It's best to stick with one type of missile in the early game.  This missile should have a range of at least 50m km and a warhead of at least 4 (penetration to second layer of armor).  Mix engines and fuel for a combination of range/speed/hit probability(vs. 3000kps) that you'll accept.

Magazine capacity should be at least 20 salvos, 40 is better.

Don't worry about reduced size launchers for this class unless you go for box launchers, the reduced mass for greater numbers usually isn't worth the increased reload time.  At least 10 launchers for the broadside is a good start, more is of course better since you’ve have to overwhelm the targets missiles defenses.

Missile fire control at a minimum should see 5000k at max range of missile.  1 fire control per 5 to 10 launchers.  Active search sensor to match fire control (CYA in case the Fleet Scout is taken out)


Escort:  This is your primary missile intercept platform.  Main intercept tool is the counter missile or anti-missile missile.  AMM/CM should be size 1 for best reload rates on launchers.  .1mbp in fuel, warhead 1, the rest engine power for speed.  Hopefully your engine tech gives this missile a range of at least 1.5m km.

Magazine capacity per launcher should start at 75.

Missile fire control at res 1 for max range of AMM/CM.  1 fire control per 5 launchers.  1 active search sensor that matches the fire control.


Considerations for all combat ships: 
   Point defense turrets.  Laser or Gauss Cannon.  Escorts should have quad's all others at least twin's.  Do not use reduced size because they have proportionally reduced effectiveness.  If mass becomes an issue use single turrets in place of twins (escorts reduce to triple or twin as needed).
  Beam fire control for PD turrets should be 4X on tracking speed (turrets at matching speeds) and a single active search sensor that will see res 1 at twice your own offensive missile range for 5seconds (or the best speed you've seen an enemy use).  Set point defense to 10k/final defense and keep the formation tight for mutual support.

  Armor.  5 layers is a good start.

  Shields.  2 per 1000 tons.

  Fuel/Engineering/Engine.  1 per 1000 tons. 

  At least 1 damage control.

  CIWS.  Mostly a waste of space if you use regular turrets for mutual defensive support.

Military Jump Ship:  This is not a combat ship, it’s the truck that you can’t get home without if the situation turns bad.  It needs to always be the biggest military ship that is intended to jump without a jumpgate.  The “considerations for all combat ships” above should be applied here as well.  Do not put offensive weapons on it or you might be tempted to put it in harm’s way.  If there is mass leftover after armor, PD turret suite, jump engine, normal space engines, etc that should be used for maintenance supplies and fuel and tag the design as tanker/supply ship.

This is a fair starting formula, but should be adjusted for technology available personal flavor and tactics.

[Hawkeye]

Missile Cruiser:  This is your long range slugger and missiles are the punch that it is built around. 

It's best to stick with one type of missile in the early game.  This missile should have a range of at least 50m km and a warhead of at least 4 (penetration to second layer of armor).  Mix engines and fuel for a combination of range/speed/hit probability(vs. 3000kps) that you'll accept.

Magazine capacity should be at least 20 salvos, 40 is better.

Don't worry about reduced size launchers for this class unless you go for box launchers, the reduced mass for greater numbers usually isn't worth the increased reload time.  At least 10 launchers for the broadside is a good start, more is of course better since you’ve have to overwhelm the targets missiles defenses.

Missile fire control at a minimum should see 5000k at max range of missile.  1 fire control per 5 to 10 launchers.  Active search sensor to match fire control (CYA in case the Fleet Scout is taken out)

I agree with everything except for the reduced size launchers.
I have made realy good experiences with the 25% size launchers.

With feed-efficiency 94% (the 6th level in that research) I can either put 16 regular size-4 launchers (3200t) with magazines for a bit more than 10 salvos (1600 t) for a total of 165 missiles on a ship (4800t). For the same mass, I can also put 96 x 25%-size launchers with a single missile in it.
Yes, the regular launcher armed ship will have more missiles to throw. On the other hand, the alpha-strike of the other will be devastating.

With lower tech magazines, the difference is even smaller. Using feed-efficiency 85% (3rd level), magazine-mass raises to 3200 t for a total of 6.400t for exactely 160 missiles. This would give me 128 reduced launchers. Not much difference left

[Charlie Beeler]

I agree with everything except for the reduced size launchers.
I have made realy good experiences with the 25% size launchers.

With feed-efficiency 94% (the 6th level in that research) I can either put 16 regular size-4 launchers (3200t) with magazines for a bit more than 10 salvos (1600 t) for a total of 165 missiles on a ship (4800t). For the same mass, I can also put 96 x 25%-size launchers with a single missile in it.
Yes, the regular launcher armed ship will have more missiles to throw. On the other hand, the alpha-strike of the other will be devastating.

With lower tech magazines, the difference is even smaller. Using feed-efficiency 85% (3rd level), magazine-mass raises to 3200 t for a total of 6.400t for exactely 160 missiles. This would give me 128 reduced launchers. Not much difference left

It's one of those personal preference things.  For battleline ships I prefer sustained rate-of-fire vs alpha-strike.  For alpha-strike I prefer fighters.

[Narmio]

Escort:  This is your primary missile intercept platform.  Main intercept tool is the counter missile or anti-missile missile.  AMM/CM should be size 1 for best reload rates on launchers.  .1mbp in fuel, warhead 1, the rest engine power for speed.  Hopefully your engine tech gives this missile a range of at least 1.5m km.

Not to nit-pick, but don't discount agility. With relatively low tech you should be able to get a counter-missile's MR up to ~20 without sacrificing too much speed. Its intercept percentages will go way up. On an anti-ship missile the disadvantage of agility is that it lowers the missile speed and thus increases the chances it will be intercepted, but AMMs aren't going to be fired at.

I set up AMMs with 1 WH, fuel for 2.5mkm, and the rest engines.  Then I reduce the engines and increase agility until the to-hit chance stops going up.  It's quite a significant increase over the no-agility design.

[Shadow]

Not to nit-pick, but don't discount agility.(...)

Seconded.