Missile Fire Controls/ Active Sensors

[mobotium (OP)]

So, Ive seen a couple of ship designs using missile fire controls, but no active sensor. Question is, do missile fire controls count as a active sensor for aiming purposes? I though you had to have atleast 1 active sensor on any ship.

As a side note, is it possible for ships to use passive sensors instead of active for targeting?

[Ziusudra]

A fire control does not count as an active sensor and you do need an active sensor. It just doesn't have to be on the same ship.

No, passive sensors will not work for targetting.

[mobotium (OP)]

Oh? You mean instead of wasting thousands of resources on high-powered active sensors on all my ships I could have just had a big mean flagship with a big-ass sensor that would work for all?

............

Well, thanks, Il go and revise my entire military now.

[Thiosk]

I still put R1 sensors on dedicated point defenders-- just short range, to ensure that they can always defend themselves at least a little bit.

I've recently considered putting such sensors on everything-- just size 1 or two-- to allow any ship to serve as jumpgate defense, even if I detach from the main fleet.

[Charlie Beeler]

No, passive sensors will not work for targetting.

Not entirely correct. 

If the missile has sensors you do not need active sensors.  Once launched the missile will attempt to find valid targets within it's detection range.  If none are found it will loiter for the duration of its fuel or until a valid target is detected. 

There is one other possible option,  though I have not used it in a very long time and may no longer be usable.  Set a waypoint near what you want targeted.  The waypoint should show as a possible missile target.  Once fired the missile should track to the selected waypoint and then search for a valid target based on it's onboard sensors. 

[sloanjh]

If the missile has sensors you do not need active sensors.  Once launched the missile will attempt to find valid targets within it's detection range.  If none are found it will loiter for the duration of its fuel or until a valid target is detected. 

There is one other possible option,  though I have not used it in a very long time and may no longer be usable.  Set a waypoint near what you want targeted.  The waypoint should show as a possible missile target.  Once fired the missile should track to the selected waypoint and then search for a valid target based on it's onboard sensors. 

I don't understand why you're distinguishing between these two cases.  The first one sounds like "launch at a waypoint set to the current location of the launching ship".  From a practical point of view, this would mean (if Steve got the missile sensor sizes correct) that you'd have to put a monster sensor on each missile in order to engage targets at reasonable range.

In other words, I don't understand how your answer is different from "Passive sensors can't be used for targetting (in the sense of obtaining a fire control lock), but they do tell you where the bad guys are.  If your missiles have active on-board sensors, then you can fire at a waypoint in the vicinity of the bad guys; the missile will travel to the waypoint and then search for targets."

John

[Brian Neumann]

In other words, I don't understand how your answer is different from "Passive sensors can't be used for targetting (in the sense of obtaining a fire control lock), but they do tell you where the bad guys are.  If your missiles have active on-board sensors, then you can fire at a waypoint in the vicinity of the bad guys; the missile will travel to the waypoint and then search for targets."

John

There are a few uses for targeting a way point.  The important item to note is that ANY sensor on a missile will let it home in on a target.  This does include thermal as well as em sensors.  How far away the target is from the missile before it can detect the target is more variable as it depends on the size of the signature.  EM is especially usefull here as shields have a really big em signature, so a big ship with heavy shields is a massive em signature.  Look at your ships em signature on the F5 or F6 screens.  This is its signature without having any sensors active.  It is usually just your shields being active.  One other point is that em sensors can detect the active sensor on a missile just like any other active sensor.  When you launch a missile with an active sensor it imediately starts working so it may give away where you are if you fired on a passive contact.  EM and thermal do not have a signature of their own to give you away.

Brian

[Charlie Beeler]

John I could easily be mis-remembering the game functions since I haven't used a passive ordinance launch in a long time. 

The first option, if I recall correctly, is using the Task Group Orders (F12) screen radio button for launching.  My recollection is that it will launch all ordinance that is currently assigned to launchers within the TG and active sensors are not required.  This is normally for boey/mine deployment but not restricted too them.  If a missile is deployed in this manor it will self destruct if it does not have onboard sensors(active or passive), otherwise the missile will attempt to acquire it's one targeting.

The more I think about it the second option is probably also through the RGO (F12) screen and not the Combat Summary (F8) screen.

[ZimRathbone]

There is one other possible option,  though I have not used it in a very long time and may no longer be usable.  Set a waypoint near what you want targeted.  The waypoint should show as a possible missile target.  Once fired the missile should track to the selected waypoint and then search for a valid target based on it's onboard sensors. 

WP targeting does not entirely work this way as I recently discovered, as missiles tageted on a WP having reached their target stop & loiter but do not then retarget if contacts are detected.  However if the missile has active sensors the contacts it detects can then be used for further firing orders from any unit within FC range.

[Dutchling]

As this thread is here anyway, I might just use it.
While I'm pretty sure this is true, I just wanted to be sure: Will a missile continue to do its job is the active sensors that enabled it's MFC to lock on the target is destroyed after launch?

[Charlie Beeler]

As this thread is here anyway, I might just use it.
While I'm pretty sure this is true, I just wanted to be sure: Will a missile continue to do its job is the active sensors that enabled it's MFC to lock on the target is destroyed after launch?

If the missile does not have onboard sensors it will self destruct if the launching ship looses active tracking of the assigned target.  If the missile has onboard sensors it is supposed to contunue to the location of the last active tracked target location and then attempt to acquire a valid target based on what sensors it has.

[sloanjh]

The first option, if I recall correctly, is using the Task Group Orders (F12) screen radio button for launching.  My recollection is that it will launch all ordinance that is currently assigned to launchers within the TG and active sensors are not required.  This is normally for boey/mine deployment but not restricted too them.  If a missile is deployed in this manor it will self destruct if it does not have onboard sensors(active or passive), otherwise the missile will attempt to acquire it's one targeting.

Thanks.  I interprete this button as a shortcut for "put a waypoint at the firing ships current location then launch everything at that waypoint" - the mechanics should be identical.

The reason I asked for the clarification was that I thought this subtlety might be confusing to the OP.  If you don't have an active contact with the target (i.e. if you only have the target on passives), then you will not be able to make it a fire control target, and you will be forced to rely on firing at a waypoint and hoping that the missile comes within (the MUCH shorter) range of its seeker head.  In other words, having an active sensor that can see the target somewhere in your fleet is a really good idea.

John

Brian - thanks for correcting my goof on the seeker heads - I forget that you could put passive heads on missiles.

[Brian Neumann]

Brian - thanks for correcting my goof on the seeker heads - I forget that you could put passive heads on missiles.

No problem.  I actually don't like putting an active sensor on missiles as they are generally to short ranged against small targets, and if you set them for a larger signature they just won't see the smaller ones at all.  That is why I really like the em sensors as they work against any target, any only fighters and gunboats are not likely to have an em signature unless they have active sensors.  By the time the missiles are looking for a target however most targets will have active sensors as well.  This ends up leaving only missiles and fighters as targets that they won't engage.  Also against ships with heavy shields or a large active sensor they have a pretty good detection range.  One time it was even close to 3 minutes of flight time, about 7 million kilometers, which is pretty darn good when you think about it.  For the targets I was shooting at it was about 20 minutes at full speed.

Brian