Task group jumping issue (maybe a bug?)

[MoonDragon (OP)]

My task group consisted of one Carrier with (4-50) jump engines, lugging around 6 fighters, and two AAM escorts (with no jump capability). As such, they could jump through JGs without any problem whatsoever. Now, I have added one tanker ship that can jump itself (1-50) and another carrier/collier with fleet jump engines (4-50). As well as 4 small (900 tons) missile boats. My new carrier/collier holds 2 of those missile boats in its hangers.

And here comes my problem. When I try to jump this new fleet, the game complains. It tells me that: "Patrol Task Group #03 cannot carry out its transit order as there are 15 ships in the fleet and the highest jump rating is 4." Do I have to break up my TG into separate TGs, such that each one has exactly one jump engine and exact number of ships to jump with them? Does the game not figure out how many jump engines I have and how many ships need jumping?

Did I get this error because I used "combat transit"? And if so, should I just use "transit" instead and shut up?

[Erik L]

My task group consisted of one Carrier with (4-50) jump engines, lugging around 6 fighters, and two AAM escorts (with no jump capability). As such, they could jump through JGs without any problem whatsoever. Now, I have added one tanker ship that can jump itself (1-50) and another carrier/collier with fleet jump engines (4-50). As well as 4 small (900 tons) missile boats. My new carrier/collier holds 2 of those missile boats in its hangers.

And here comes my problem. When I try to jump this new fleet, the game complains. It tells me that: "Patrol Task Group #03 cannot carry out its transit order as there are 15 ships in the fleet and the highest jump rating is 4." Do I have to break up my TG into separate TGs, such that each one has exactly one jump engine and exact number of ships to jump with them? Does the game not figure out how many jump engines I have and how many ships need jumping?

Did I get this error because I used "combat transit"? And if so, should I just use "transit" instead and shut up?

Combat transit will attempt to transit ALL ships in the TG at once, and if there is not enough capability to do so, you won't be able to.

[MoonDragon (OP)]

Yes

Combat transit will attempt to transit ALL ships in the TG at once, and if there is not enough capability to do so, you won't be able to.

Are you saying that I do not have enough capability to do so? Here's a screenshot of my TG and class descriptions. From everything I understand in this game, I should be able to perform a "combat transit". So why not? Am I wrong or is the game wrong?

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Furious class Replenishment Ship    10000 tons     548 Crew     1829.4 BP      TCS 200  TH 115.2  EM 450
2400 km/s    JR 4-50     Armour 5-41     Shields 15-250     Sensors 280/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 133%    IFR: 1.9%    Maint Capacity 2686 MSP    Max Repair 280 MSP    Est Time: 3.3 Years
Hangar Deck Capacity 2000 tons     Magazine 765    

Rand Ind. Drive JM10000(4-50)     Max Ship Size 10000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 4
...

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Hood class Carrier    10000 tons     586 Crew     1882 BP      TCS 200  TH 115.2  EM 360
2400 km/s    JR 4-50     Armour 6-41     Shields 12-300     Sensors 280/55/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 80%    IFR: 1.1%    Maint Capacity 2176 MSP    Max Repair 280 MSP    Est Time: 3.93 Years
Hangar Deck Capacity 3000 tons    

Rand Ind. Drive JM10000(4-50)     Max Ship Size 10000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 4
...

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Bucket - J class Tanker    2000 tons     155 Crew     575.4 BP      TCS 40  TH 76.8  EM 0
8000 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 1-14     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 32%    IFR: 0.4%    Maint Capacity 180 MSP    Max Repair 160 MSP    Est Time: 2.17 Years

Innotech MJ2000(1-50) Drive     Max Ship Size 2000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
...

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Audacious class Escort Cruiser    9500 tons     725 Crew     1789 BP      TCS 190  TH 115.2  EM 360
...

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Falchion class Missile Boat    900 tons     44 Crew     239.4 BP      TCS 18  TH 38.4  EM 0
...

[Erik L]

Because you can transit 6 ships in addition to your jump ships. You have one Furious and one Hood. Both with a squadron size of 4.  And you are trying to transit a total of 9 ships. Add one more Furious or Hood, or drop one ship and you will be able to combat transit.

[MoonDragon (OP)]

Because you can transit 6 ships in addition to your jump ships. You have one Furious and one Hood. Both with a squadron size of 4.  And you are trying to transit a total of 9 ships. Add one more Furious or Hood, or drop one ship and you will be able to combat transit.

Bucket - J can jump itself. I'm not sure if you got to see my post before I managed to edit its description in or not. So technically Furious and Hood should be able to jump 8 ships, including themselves.

Also, do ships in the hangars count for the fleet jumping limit, or do they become an integral part of the ship in whose hangars they sit?

[Erik L]

Are the FACs embarked on the mothership?

My gut says that they won't count if they are docked. You might also try separating out the Bucket and see if that has an effect.

[MoonDragon (OP)]

Yeah, 2 of the Falchion FACs are docked (as can be seen in the screenshot). I didn't design them as gunboats (they have normal engines). My carrier/collier has hangers to reload their box launchers. I docked 2 of them to save on fuel, maintenance and help with jump transiting. So much for that last one.

[Venec]

If you want to transit other ships, you need jump drive that have enough jump capability for each and every one ship without jump drive. In this case I think it would be (excluding jump capable ships):

4x Falchion + 2x Aduacious = 22 600 tons

So, you need one ship with jump drive capable of taking 6 ships (7 including that ship) with jump capability of at least 22 600 tons (more if you include jump ship itself). Docked fighters do not count for jump quota (I nearly sure, but someone correct me if I'm wrong). Of course you can split jump capability across couple of ships, but it's more math so personally I would stick to one big jump tender.

Hope that helps  

[Steve Walmsley]

When jumping as a combat transit, the individual jump squadrons need to be separate task groups. This is because each jump ship can end up in a different location so they can't jump as one group. This will be a LOT easier to manage with the new naval organization structure in v5.0

Steve

[MoonDragon (OP)]

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

[MoonDragon (OP)]

If you want to transit other ships, you need jump drive that have enough jump capability for each and every one ship without jump drive. In this case I think it would be (excluding jump capable ships):

4x Falchion + 2x Aduacious = 22 600 tons

So, you need one ship with jump drive capable of taking 6 ships (7 including that ship) with jump capability of at least 22 600 tons (more if you include jump ship itself).

That's not true actually. A jump engine does not transit all of the fleet mass at once. It "opens a hole" the size of the ship that mounts the engine, and sustains it long enough for a few more ships to transit through (how many is based on the research tech), given that they are no larger than the "hole". As I mentioned in my original post, I successfully jumped a TG consisting of Hood and two Audacious class ships.

[sloanjh]

Here's my pitch for the "Jump Ships/Engines/Gates" FAQ.  If the questions raised in this thread aren't answered there, please post in this thread and we'll fix it.

EDIT: I just added some text to make clear that embarked parasites don't count towards squadron size and to emphasize that Squadron sizes are not cumulative - you have to split the TG as Steve said above.

Thanks,
John

[Venec]

If you want to transit other ships, you need jump drive that have enough jump capability for each and every one ship without jump drive. In this case I think it would be (excluding jump capable ships):

4x Falchion + 2x Aduacious = 22 600 tons

So, you need one ship with jump drive capable of taking 6 ships (7 including that ship) with jump capability of at least 22 600 tons (more if you include jump ship itself).

That's not true actually. A jump engine does not transit all of the fleet mass at once. It "opens a hole" the size of the ship that mounts the engine, and sustains it long enough for a few more ships to transit through (how many is based on the research tech), given that they are no larger than the "hole". As I mentioned in my original post, I successfully jumped a TG consisting of Hood and two Audacious class ships.

Damm, that means I must read more on jump drives  

[Shadow]

I've been having some problems with TG transit as well, and I believe this is the reason:

It "opens a hole" the size of the ship that mounts the engine, and sustains it long enough for a few more ships to transit through (how many is based on the research tech), given that they are no larger than the "hole".

Why is the hole the size of the jumpship? The jump drive's the one responsible for the actual jump, so why isn't the hole the size of the drive's Max Ship Size instead? It's something to consider: one shouldn't need a 50000-ton tender to assist other 50000-ton ships if the technology allows for drives with enough Max Ship Size mounted on much smaller vessels.

[Hawkeye]

You can make up your own technobabble, mine is below

The jump-engine and the ship carrying it are interacting, they are a single entity(sp), so to speak. The hole generated depends on the size of this entity.